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Little or Saunder's tern - Eastern Saudi (1 Viewer)

Can you tell us when the pictures were taken ?
Pictures show only two black primaries (and extensive white on forehead) which would lead to Little. But I think there is one missing primary (penultimate I think) so it may be important to know if the bird can be in moult.
 
Th_SQ said:
Can you tell us when the pictures were taken ?
Pictures show only two black primaries (and extensive white on forehead) which would lead to Little. But I think there is one missing primary (penultimate I think) so it may be important to know if the bird can be in moult.
Sorry about that, they were taken today. :t:
 
I agree with JanJ, Little Tern
2 blacker outer primaries fits more to Little Tern too (has sometimes also 3)
legs reddish orange, Saunder's legs are generally darker etc...
 
JanJ :

"Terns" by KMO & H.Larsson : "Only those with a combinaison of all characters can be identified"

From the date, the bird may well be in moult (I'll pretty sure there is one primary missing, explaining wierd pattern).

Best left unidentified for me.


Just my opinion :scribe:
 
I prefer to follow the wise advice of K.M.O., the author of "Tern", and keep this bird unidentified. Just my choice :bounce:



(And well, I would not call "black" the primaries of the Little Tern with 3 dark primaries. On Adrian's bird here it's really black and extensive).
 
Agree on the wise advice, and that it seem to have one primary missing, probably the prenultimate, which would be a pro-Saunder´s character, but the head pattern looks very good for Little.

JanJ
 
The legs look a bit dull to me and, if it is a Little Tern, what happened to the black tip to it's bill?? It's bill is almost reminiscent of a Fairy Tern (Sterna nereis). Not that I'm suggesting that as a possibility!
 
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CJW said:
The legs look a bit dull to me and, if it is a Little Tern, what happened to the black tip to it's bill??

Also Saunder's should be black tip to it's bill. Concerning the colour of legs,
see follow link:
http://www.birdingisrael.com/birdNews/newsAlert/saunders/saundersTern.htm

But this overall impression fits perhaps better to Little..., who knows---- ;-)

Porter et all in Field Guide to the Birds of the Middle East does not mention Fairy Tern (Sterna nereis)...
 
Agree its not safely identifiable, but that bird is in moult and it will have three black outer primaries. It comes down to which feather you choose to believe - the primary or the one stray white one which extends the forehead patch over the eye!
 
Lack of black tip on the bill is not a major problem. Moult is complex, as noted in 'Terns' and Adrians bird might not be fully adult (maybe a 2nd summer ?) due to darker lesser covert bar and a brownish primary covert, but the outer primaries doe´s look blacker than the inner one. According to 'Terns' Saunder´s moult later than Little (variable), and normally retains thre outer primaries which are deeper black comp. to Little. Number of black outer primaries is a variable character, and as Th_SQ mentioned a combination of characters would of course be wise. That head pattern on a 'clean' Saunder´s I would like to see! Intergrades complicates the situation further.

Check headpattern, males and females on Little here (from Northern Europe)

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-48087/faglar/materialmapp/ruggmapp/albifrons.html

JanJ
 
JANJ said:
Lack of black tip on the bill is not a major problem

It might not be a problem, all I was saying was it's unusual. I've never seen a Little Tern without the black bill tip.
 
JANJ said:
Lack of black tip on the bill is not a major problem. Moult is complex, as noted in 'Terns' and Adrians bird might not be fully adult (maybe a 2nd summer ?) due to darker lesser covert bar and a brownish primary covert, but the outer primaries doe´s look blacker than the inner one. According to 'Terns' Saunder´s moult later than Little (variable), and normally retains thre outer primaries which are deeper black comp. to Little. Number of black outer primaries is a variable character, and as Th_SQ mentioned a combination of characters would of course be wise. That head pattern on a 'clean' Saunder´s I would like to see! Intergrades complicates the situation further.

Check headpattern, males and females on Little here (from Northern Europe)

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-48087/faglar/materialmapp/ruggmapp/albifrons.html

JanJ
Jan,

My only guide on the region "Helm" mentions that in the Gulf area, intermediates occur. would it be safe to call this an intermediate?
 
For the time bieng Adrian, although the head pattern say´s Little, and Little can show 3 blackish/black outer primaries, but more work is required to check on the moult of Little and Saunder´s.

Always nice to work with your birds Adrian.

JanJ
 
JANJ said:
For the time bieng Adrian, although the head pattern say´s Little, and Little can show 3 blackish/black outer primaries, but more work is required to check on the moult of Little and Saunder´s.

Always nice to work with your birds Adrian.

JanJ
My pleasure Jan. :t:
 
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