What would it take to build the ultimate bino? I have the Promaster ELX ED, but the ED glass is only on the objective lense, I believe, and the prisms are not dielectric coated. Still...good, good glass. What would happen if ALL lenses were ED, dialectrically coated prisms (or Abbe Konig) All surfaces were broadband multicoated (perhaps by electron beam aka the Fuji Polaris) the interior was baffled well and blackened--the works! What would THAT bino be like? (I would add a significant depth of field, and Both porro and roof models competing.):king::king:
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ultimate binos? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bro.steve
- Start date
I think a Nikon 8x32 SE ED would be the ultimate binocular! Superior design with the porro prism and with ED glass maybe a little better yet!
Dennis
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Hmmm, If all the elements were ED then they wouldn't control the CA very well. That's rather "turn it up to 11" thinking. The design uses ED and other (high dispersion glasses) to reduce LCA overall.
The Chinese EDs have a single element in the objective and a LaK lens in the EP too to reduce TCA.
And all the high temp oxide coatings' crucibles are heated by "electron beam" (just because one company mentions it it doesn't mean others don't do it). The issue with AR coatings is in pick the material in the multilayer coating and the thickness of each layer. Then building it as designed.
The ultimate bin might be a slightly lighter Canon 10x42 IS L waterproof. Remember its a porro design (porro 2). Once you got all the other optics right then IS is the next step: it makes a big difference.
The Chinese EDs have a single element in the objective and a LaK lens in the EP too to reduce TCA.
And all the high temp oxide coatings' crucibles are heated by "electron beam" (just because one company mentions it it doesn't mean others don't do it). The issue with AR coatings is in pick the material in the multilayer coating and the thickness of each layer. Then building it as designed.
The ultimate bin might be a slightly lighter Canon 10x42 IS L waterproof. Remember its a porro design (porro 2). Once you got all the other optics right then IS is the next step: it makes a big difference.
Sounds expensive, but why not offer them as an option for the most extreme hardcore birders? $3,000 bino's?
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Zeiss current uses composites in it's body of the FLs. The glass actually weights quite a lot.
I doubt you'll see CF used though. It doesn't have the right properties (i.e. you can't machine it for well defined mounting points for the optics). Oh, and don't drop the CF bins. You do watch Formula 1 don't you
The easiest way to deal with heavier optics is to stop using a neck strap and use a harness instead. If your arms are tired then spend more time birding or some time at the gym.
I doubt you'll see CF used though. It doesn't have the right properties (i.e. you can't machine it for well defined mounting points for the optics). Oh, and don't drop the CF bins. You do watch Formula 1 don't you
The easiest way to deal with heavier optics is to stop using a neck strap and use a harness instead. If your arms are tired then spend more time birding or some time at the gym.
I would love to see a Nikon SE ED in 8x42 version, with quick, smooth internal focusing, nitrogen filled and with improved twist-up eyecups. Dreams, dreams, dreams... o
Yes. That would be something!
Dennis
The behavior of thin film interference coatings depends more or less, by design, on the angle at which light strikes the coating.
I'm not totally sure my dream is possible, but I think it might be. I'd like to see a coating that would reject light from outside the field of view.
Ron
I'm not totally sure my dream is possible, but I think it might be. I'd like to see a coating that would reject light from outside the field of view.
Ron
Veracocha
Well-known member
In the absence of the ultimate bino I will settle for the Hawke Frontier 10 X 43 ED. Today I went to a bird-fair and had chance to look through a smorgasboard of bino's. Leica, Swaro's, Pentax, Kowa, Opticron, Vortex, RSPB etc. It was a great day with beautiful sun shining across the meadows and lakes, perfect for making comparisons. If I hadn't tested so many for so long it would be hard to believe and even harder to state that the Hawkes were better than anything on offer today. I remained completely objective in my comparisons but I suppose I would say that wouldn't I; well no, I wouldn't. Unless you look through them all you might never believe that a £300 bino outperforms the £1200 bino when it comes to image quality. I pointed this out to many of the representatives from the competitors and not one came back with an argument about the optical quality. Sure they went on about aftersales support but I can't wear that when they cost a fifth of the price of the next best. There's something about carrying a pair of Chinese bins when in the company of the Swaro mob that I really enjoy, it's a smile that says it all.
One thing though, I did look through a load of spotting scopes and one in particular blew my mind, it was awesome, so far ahead of the rest it was off the map, a Kowa 883. If ever I wanted a scope then this was it. Perfection.
One thing though, I did look through a load of spotting scopes and one in particular blew my mind, it was awesome, so far ahead of the rest it was off the map, a Kowa 883. If ever I wanted a scope then this was it. Perfection.
The Kerreran
Has hat, will stand in the rain
Swarovski's new line, when they finish re-tooling it.
I got a look through the new ELs last year, and I kid ye not when I say the only flaw in them was the price. I'm not a Swaro employee, or even an owner - I use Nikon scopes and Leica bins - but I know sheer quality when I see it. They were the bin equivalent of the Kowa 883/4 [and when I win the lottery I'm having one of those, too!
]
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Thanks for the suggestions, KP. My arms are pretty strong. I think it's more a comfort thing (try 15 miles on a mountain bike through the hot desert with a full-sized pair of binoculars on your back....
Don't they weight a fraction of the total weight of say your water and emergency kit? Heck, your helmet probably comes pretty close!
Kevin Conville
yardbirder
Don't forget dual magnification and if the engineers can manage it, please make it look and feel less like a kitchen appliance.
Some of this optical hair splitting does seem a little silly once IS is thrown in the mix. Starting with IS seems the path to the ultimate bin.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I agree with Kevin (to some extent ... they Canon design is always going to look alike a kitchen appliance ... it's a box with an optical bench inside and two stalks coming out of it!).
But the more I use my IS bins the less happy I am with my non-IS bins. Even the good ones i.e. those ones that have better optics than my 10x30 IS bins.
But dual power in an IS bin would be a very interesting addition assuming they can get a decent wide field at lower power. And make them confocal at both magnification (the difficult bit!). And keep the weight down. And make the optics great.
You see the problem with dream bins is you don't know where to stop so my ultimate bins aren't perhaps ultimate but "currently dooable". But all bins are compromises.
Shouldn't Canon be getting another pair of IS bins out around about now? It's been what 4 or 5 years since the last design?
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Steve C
Well-known member
The real problem is getting a definition of ultimate binocular that works for enough people. Ask ten and you get ten opinions. Choices, choices, decisions, decisions... However, now that I have the Leupold Switch Power, I can see that dual magnification inclusion has some merit.
However, now that I have the Leupold Switch Power, I can see that dual magnification inclusion has some merit.
tophillbirder
Well-known member
The real problem is getting a definition of ultimate binocular that works for enough people. Ask ten and you get ten opinions. Choices, choices, decisions, decisions...
Too true. I know people who can handle 50mm Leica which would be too heavy for most. The Canon IS are optically brilliant but too bulky. Some like 8x or 10x. Can bins be too bright? I tested a new pair of Zeiss 10x42 against my well used Leica 10x42. A quick look would have me thinking there was no contest but viewing a distant finch on wires the Leica id'd it as a male Chaffinch but the Zeiss image was too bright to get any definition.
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