When are wild birds ... wild?? (1 Viewer)

Other than when they are furious (thought I'd get that one in first).

After posting the "Choughs back in Cornwall" thread, it got me thinking when do birds count as wild once they have been re-introduced when bred in captivity?

Hi Tony, I think the population has to be self-sustaining without recourse for further introduction for 5 years.

Hi Tony,
With regard to ticking,birds have to be self-sustaining and at least third generation wild-bred birds(which means a vagrant Golden Eagle would still be greatly appreciated here while we wait for such a long-lived bird to produce a third generation:they haven't bred yet...)
Harry H

Thanks guys, I thought it had to be along those lines but assuming only gets things wrong when I do it. With all the rings and tracking tags they look more like hippies than wild.

Hi Harry, where did that 'rule' come from? I hadn't realised that it had to be 3rd generation, although I understand the reasoning.
How do you determine what is a 3rd generation? I only ask because if the 1st generation is still actively breeding at the same time as the second generation then the progeny of said 1st generation would be inseparable from those of the 2nd.....

Hi Harry & CJ,

I'd not come across the 3rd generation thing - is it an IRBC policy?

Nor the five years rule either.

As I'd understood it regarding Britain, it is done by the BOURC on an individual case-by-case study, with no rules other than that the population must be self-sustaining without recourse to further releases.

The Red Kite releases did so amazingly well, that these released populations were admitted to category C in just 3 or 4 years and 2 generations, whereas the White-tailed Eagles, doing less well than they'd hoped/expected, are still not yet admitted despite having been around for 20 years or so, and five or six generations. Though with any luck, the news posted yesterday that they'd fledged double the previous record number of chicks, the decision to upgrade them might come soon now.

As an aside, I do wonder how long Red-legged Partidges would last in Scotland and Northern England without further releases. I reckon they would die out in a few years, as they don't raise many young up here - most broods fail due to cold damp weather in spring. Perhaps they should really be thrown off the formal lists of Scotland and Northumbs., etc.

Michael

Another thing that the BOURC take into account is the 'cohesivity' of the establishing feral population - I remember reading that 200 pairs of Pink-footed Geese were not admitted, as they were widely scattered and not persisting at individual sites with no single viable communities, whereas 200 pairs of Egyptian Geese are admitted, as they're all in one cohesive population restricted to a well-defined area and persisting very well.

Michael

Michael Frankis said:

Hi Harry & CJ,


Nor the five years rule either.


As an aside, I do wonder how long Red-legged Partidges would last in Scotland and Northern England without further releases. I reckon they would die out in a few years, as they don't raise many young up here - most broods fail due to cold damp weather in spring. Perhaps they should really be thrown off the formal lists of Scotland and Northumbs., etc.

Michael

Click to expand...

Hi Michael, I think it used to be 5 years but now the BOU are saying:
"C Species that, although originally introduced by man, either deliberately or accidentally, have established breeding populations derived from introduced stock, that maintain themselves without necessary recourse to further introduction.

C1 Naturalised introductions Species that have occurred only as a result of introduction. E.g. Egyptian Goose Alopochen aegyptiacus.

C2 Naturalised establishments Species with established populations as a result of introduction by Man, but which also occur in an apparently natural state. E.g. Canada Goose Branta canadensis.

C3 Naturalised re-establishments Species with populations successfully re-established by Man in areas of former occurrence. E.g. Red Kite Milvus milvus.

C4 Naturalised feral species Domesticated species with populations established in the wild. E.g. Rock Dove Columba livia.

C5 Vagrant naturalised species Species from established naturalised populations abroad. E.g. some/all Ruddy Shelducks Tadorna ferruginea occuring in Britain."

You can have some of our Red-legs if you want, but you'll have to give us some of your Greys in return!

Hi Michael and CJW,
I'm not sure where the "third generation" thing came from,only that I know that's what's being said about the Golden Eagles at Glenveagh!
I also know that wing-tagged Red Kites are frowned upon in listing terms over here,despite the fact that "genuine" wild birds are also being tagged(those lucky enough to see the radio-tagged Honey Buzzard 2 years ago had no problems with that,though I admit that this was a case of a wild-bred bird being tagged on the nest,not a bird being liberated...)
What would happen,I wonder,if two released Red Kites came here and bred?Would their young be tickable,despite this "third generation" rule?The mind boggles...;-)
Harry H

Hi all,

RE:tagged Red Kites

from my understanding of the situation, young birds released are tagged as we all know, but so are young of any successful nesting attempts found by the project. So birds that would fit the "wild" criteria will also be tagged if they come from a nesting pair that are being watched. Just to complicate the matter!

Mark.