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Chilling news from Scotland (1 Viewer)

So you'd rather see thousands of birds couped up in cramped sheds than in the wild where they have some form of "quality of life".

With respect you are misunderstanding my post if you think that I said is what I would prefer: In fact I made no reference to which method of rearing I think would be best for the welfare of the birds.

I merely observed that from an economic viewpoint if meat production were the sole aim then this would be a more economical method.

In fact I am ambivalent about shooting. I come from an area of gloucestershire with many shoots and have seen some of the effects both good and bad.

At best are some shoots on arable land which support locally rare farmland birds not otherwise found in my area such as Tree Sparrow (probably chiefly by virtue of set-aside and headlands left unplowed for game cover since these are species likely to be unaffected by predator control).

At worst a number of shots where I have seen 'vermin' that have been shot and the corpses nailed to trees or found illegal traps; these would include one wood where greenfinches had been shot and placed in traps presumably as bait for other birds.

I do not object to well regulated shoots but despise the sometimes illegal persecution of supposed 'vermin' that often accompanies them. What I most object to is hypocrisy. Be honest about what hunting is about. I have no problem with someone saying they get a thrill from hunting; I get a thrill from finding birds that is probably similar - I just don't feel the need to kill.

If you wish to argue about the virtues of hunting be honest about what is being done.

Tom
 
Hi
Pheasant rearing and shooting is really big buisness in rural ares and injects huge sums of money into the local economies in all manner of diverse wayssand in many instances is the major source of income for many landowners particularly the big Scottish estates.
Whatever anyone thinks raptors are going to be killed if the gamekeepers wish to do so,there are too many cases of illegal poisoning carried out on almost a daily basis.
The vast tracts of some of these estates are too big to police and so it is impossible to monitor the situation The only way forward is to try and educate people,we have 8-10 year old children whose fathers work on these estates thinking it is perfectly acceptable to poison raptors. It is very difficult to eradicate this ingrained viewpoint.
Would not issuing licenses to shoot Buzzards under very strict controls save them from a horrible death due to poisoning?
Malcolm

What a load of hog wash. As you state, and most birders know, poisoning and illegal trapping will still continue because in the mind of of a number of game keepers and followers of kill sports there will be no satisfaction until all predators of their stock are gone. Fortunately there are some who do not follow that path but are, regrettably, tainted with that brush.
 
They have done for Hen Harriers, now Buzzards where will it stop? Do you honestly believe these sporting estates support thousands of jobs, utter tosh. It is all about a few very rich satisfying their kill craze.
 
They have done for Hen Harriers, now Buzzards where will it stop? Do you honestly believe these sporting estates support thousands of jobs, utter tosh. It is all about a few very rich satisfying their kill craze.

I did,nt say they support thousands of jobs I said they bring huge sums of money into the Scottish economy in lots of diverse ways. I,m playing the Devils Advocate here and trying to point out the thought pattern of many of these Estates.I live between two shooting estates and see on a daily basis the running of these estates. Pheasants don,t get buried they are sold to game dealers.The raptor situation is undoubtdley a very emotional one and having spoken to Keepers I really don,t know how to change there mentality.
I don,t agree with pheasant shooting but its never going to be banned and its a very difficult situation to police.
Malcolm
 
They have done for Hen Harriers, now Buzzards where will it stop? Do you honestly believe these sporting estates support thousands of jobs, utter tosh. It is all about a few very rich satisfying their kill craze.

I did,nt say they support thousands of jobs I said they bring huge sums of money into the Scottish economy in lots of diverse ways. I,m playing the Devils Advocate here and trying to point out the thought pattern of many of these Estates.I live between two shooting estates and see on a daily basis the running of these estates. Pheasants don,t get buried they are sold to game dealers.The raptor situation is undoubtdley a very emotional one and having spoken to Keepers I really don,t know how to change there mentality.
I don,t agree with pheasant shooting but its never going to be banned and its a very difficult situation to police.
Malcolm
 
Malcolm

I think the poisoning would still carry on regardless of any 'legal' shooting.


Hi
Pheasant rearing and shooting is really big buisness in rural ares and injects huge sums of money into the local economies in all manner of diverse wayssand in many instances is the major source of income for many landowners particularly the big Scottish estates.
Whatever anyone thinks raptors are going to be killed if the gamekeepers wish to do so,there are too many cases of illegal poisoning carried out on almost a daily basis.
The vast tracts of some of these estates are too big to police and so it is impossible to monitor the situation The only way forward is to try and educate people,we have 8-10 year old children whose fathers work on these estates thinking it is perfectly acceptable to poison raptors. It is very difficult to eradicate this ingrained viewpoint.
Would not issuing licenses to shoot Buzzards under very strict controls save them from a horrible death due to poisoning?
Malcolm
 
Why not just wait until the guidelines come out, before jumping on the bandwagon?

SNH are still pretty adamant that licenses will only be granted once all other options have been explored, so don't be expecting every person who applies for a license to kill buzzards to be granted one.

You know, strictly speaking, this isn't news. It has always been the case that you can apply for a license to shoot buzzards... they have always been refused in the past. The only real news is that they are releasing guidelines (next year, for those who just had a rant without reading the article or following it up elsewhere) on what circumstances they may allow the issue of a license. Sure, they may be relaxing the rules a little... but I'll wager that the number of licenses granted is tiny.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of the idea... i just think its a bit premature to be making any decisions on what a catastrophe it would be until the guidelines have been released.
 
What for £30 A DAY...really???????!!!

When you’re a student in a very rural area, such as North Shropshire, £30 a day is quite handy holiday money, when you can't get into a town on a regular basis to find other work.

Maybe I have (or you have) a skewed idea of the number of buzzards in Scotland. Round here every wood and copse has at least one pair and buzzards are by far the most frequently seen raptors, I was under the impression there were similar numbers in Scotland. I believe you live in Sussex? I gather buzzards less frequent all together the further east you go, certainly when I visit Norfolk I see far more Marsh Harriers than Buzzards.

I am also very much aware of the fact that pheasants are not usually the main prey item of buzzards, but that doesn't stop populations or individuals from changing their diet to an easier food source.
 
So here comes another victim of devolution. Seals, sand dunes, Buzzards.... where will it stop? Doesn't seem to me likely that it will. Much more likely that Scottish cronyism courtesy of oily politician will see the undoing of many years of heading in the right direction.

Those cruel to domestic animals can be banned from keeping them. It seems to me only right that gamekeepers convicted of breaches of laws that they must be aware of (is the legal side compulsory in modern gamekeeper training? If not why not?) should be banned from further employment in the game business, not to mention having their firearms certificates removed. Thus laughable fines paid by employers would be replaced with the dole or retraining as call centre workers.

John
 
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