• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Quality Hiking Bin (non alpha) (1 Viewer)

RJM,

Ouch.... you're right. I have the 7x21 / 9x21 manual and copied the wrong set of specifications. My apologies!

Here's the full correct set for my 9x21. Still not shabby :)

3.4" x 4.1" x 2" (86 x 105 x 50mm)
7.4 oz (210g)
57.5 to 71.5mm IPD
9.8' (3m) close focus
6.3° FOV (330' @ 1000yds; 110m @ 1000m)
 
My Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 reverse porro has just about everything right, optically I find it amazingly clear and sharp, 131m/1000m FOV is very very nice, the 6.5x mag is quite good with no handshake, the feel in my hands is excellent, the 3.2 mm exit pupil gives adequate brightness and is easy to align to my pupils. The depth of field is really good. Ergonomically, I like the stubby shape, the focus wheel is quick and smooth, the weight (300 g) is a tremendous relief compared to my other bins.
I've shortened the strap to make the bins sit high on my chest.
The light weight makes them almost unnoticeable, I can wear them all day without problems, can raise them quicker to my eyes than any other bin, can raise them many times, without fatigue at the end of a day's birding ( with my heavier bins I became unwilling to lift them after long hours in the field), plus I can hold them much longer to my eyes.
They have a plasticky feel, but seem to be sturdy enough; today they dropped off the couch on a tile floor, I had them beside me and when I stood up I kind of catapulted them off the couch caused by relieving the couch pillow from my bodyweight which counteracted as a catapult to the adjacent pillow the bin was lying on. Pyooooow!
The bins rolled under the coffeetable, when I picked them up I cursed myself for not paying attention, but they were fine; no visible damage on the outside and alignment was unharmed. No cracks or loose bits inside, everything was OK fortunately.

I use them as my main birding bins, even at long range they are quite satisfying.
To my eyes, these are the sharpest bins I've had in decades. The only thing I would like to see improved, is waterproofing, though the optical window in front of the moving objectives should keep out moisture and dust.
Oh, and the focus range goes from very close (0.45m) to well past infinity, quite impressive.

Best regards,

Ronald

I preferred the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 after trying the Papilio 6.5x21. The Nikon is more ergonomic for me and the rubber armouring is very nice and I thought the optics were a little better. Plus and a big plus it is waterproof. The perfect go anywhere all around travel binocular. It is BETTER than any of the $400.00 to$700.00 alpha roofs that I have tried and it is brighter and has that 3D view of a porro. Check it out!
 
The Prostaff 8x25 ATB aka Travelite EX has a narrow sub50° AFoV too. I might prefer the Bushnell 7x26 Custom Elite though it is more expensive.
 
Last edited:
I preferred the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 after trying the Papilio 6.5x21. The Nikon is more ergonomic for me and the rubber armouring is very nice and I thought the optics were a little better. Plus and a big plus it is waterproof. The perfect go anywhere all around travel binocular. It is BETTER than any of the $400.00 to$700.00 alpha roofs that I have tried and it is brighter and has that 3D view of a porro. Check it out!

I will check it out for sure, Dennis, the waterproofing sure is a big plus, as you say. The Pentax will have to be tucked under my coat in the rain, where it will be safe, but also not immediately ready to use. I've got experience with non-waterproof bins, my former Optolyth Alpin 7x42 lightweight porro had to be kept out of the rain or else they'd fog up instantly. Wouldn't want to jeopardize my newly bought optics, better to be on the safe side.

In the meantime, as the weather is fine, I enjoy every minute using the Pentax 6.5x21; serious birding and occasional birding seem to have merged, since I can take them anywhere and use them effortlessly, they really are an extension of my hands. I doubt I'll ever go back to full-size or even mid-size, for the money they are incredibly good. Makes me want to invest in a top-notch scope somewhere in the future, rather than be tempted to succumb to a heavy Swarovision. Or to just wait until Canon conjures up a waterproof 10x30 L IS, but that might be a long wait.

One thing I'd like you to ask, I almost forgot, but did you notice any difference in handshake between the 6.5x21 Papilio and the 8x25 Nikon?
I'm starting to convince myself that 6.5x mag might be the right one, maybe stretching it to 7x in a small package... but 8x? Would that be noticeable?

Best regards,

Ronald
 
The Prostaff 8x25 ATB aka Travelite EX has a narrow sub50° AFoV too. I might prefer the Bushnell 7x26 Custom Elite though it is more expensive.

The Nikon Prostaff has a 330 foot FOV @1000 yds. which isn't bad. I would rather have a slightly narrower FOV than get all kinds of black outs like I do with the Bushnell Custom Elites 7x26 and have to hold the binoculars 1/4 of an inch away from my eyes. I tried just about all the compacts including alphas and reverse porros and I liked this one the best. It looks like a little Nikon Monarch with the same rubber coating and it fits my hands well and it is much easier to use than the 8x20 alpha roofs with the bigger exit pupil and brighter view especially at dusk. Waterproof to boot and less than $120.00 and more durable than the Olympus Tracker 8x25 with there melting seal problems. Only 12.5 oz. which is way lighter than a 32mm and you can hold them up all day without your arms getting tired. Nice belt case and strap. Really they are pretty nice for traveling and car binoculars.
 
Last edited:
I will check it out for sure, Dennis, the waterproofing sure is a big plus, as you say. The Pentax will have to be tucked under my coat in the rain, where it will be safe, but also not immediately ready to use. I've got experience with non-waterproof bins, my former Optolyth Alpin 7x42 lightweight porro had to be kept out of the rain or else they'd fog up instantly. Wouldn't want to jeopardize my newly bought optics, better to be on the safe side.

In the meantime, as the weather is fine, I enjoy every minute using the Pentax 6.5x21; serious birding and occasional birding seem to have merged, since I can take them anywhere and use them effortlessly, they really are an extension of my hands. I doubt I'll ever go back to full-size or even mid-size, for the money they are incredibly good. Makes me want to invest in a top-notch scope somewhere in the future, rather than be tempted to succumb to a heavy Swarovision. Or to just wait until Canon conjures up a waterproof 10x30 L IS, but that might be a long wait.

One thing I'd like you to ask, I almost forgot, but did you notice any difference in handshake between the 6.5x21 Papilio and the 8x25 Nikon?
I'm starting to convince myself that 6.5x mag might be the right one, maybe stretching it to 7x in a small package... but 8x? Would that be noticeable?

Best regards,

Ronald

I don't notice much difference in hand shake between 6.5x and 8x. I really prefer 8x over 6.5x or 7x. It gets you up closer to the bird and the shake isn't bad and you still have a pretty good FOV. If you like a Nikon Monarch 8x42 you will like the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 because I think the view is similar although the bigger aperture is brighter of course. But I think the optical program is similar on both. I compared them in the store and the similarity in view was remarkable.
 
I don't notice much difference in hand shake between 6.5x and 8x. I really prefer 8x over 6.5x or 7x. It gets you up closer to the bird and the shake isn't bad and you still have a pretty good FOV. If you like a Nikon Monarch 8x42 you will like the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 because I think the view is similar although the bigger aperture is brighter of course. But I think the optical program is similar on both. I compared them in the store and the similarity in view was remarkable.

I haven't seen the Monarch 8x42, for some unknown reason Nikon binoculars are hard to come by here, with the exception of the Action and Action Extreme porro's. I did a Google search for the Prostaff in only Dutch pages and so far got no result.
I had an Olympus 8x25 reverse porro years ago, and though it had a very good image quality, I think I can hold the 6.5x Pentax more steady than I could the Olympus. But I could be wrong there, memory failing and all.
It's just that the waterproof reverse porro's seem nice to have on wet days, but I doubt they'll give me more pleasure than the Papilio's. The wide FOV is really a luxury in such a compact design.

Best regards,

Ronald
 
It's just that the waterproof reverse porro's seem nice to have on wet days, but I doubt they'll give me more pleasure than the Papilio's. The wide FOV is really a luxury in such a compact design.

I agree Ronald. Not only does the Papilo have a wider FoV, both true and apparent, it's lighter weight and with a significantly 2x greater depth of field by my calculations. The Papilio also has a slight larger exit pupil so will be just as bright as the Nikon in practice. Plus no other bino can focus as close.
 
I haven't seen the Monarch 8x42, for some unknown reason Nikon binoculars are hard to come by here, with the exception of the Action and Action Extreme porro's. I did a Google search for the Prostaff in only Dutch pages and so far got no result.
I had an Olympus 8x25 reverse porro years ago, and though it had a very good image quality, I think I can hold the 6.5x Pentax more steady than I could the Olympus. But I could be wrong there, memory failing and all.
It's just that the waterproof reverse porro's seem nice to have on wet days, but I doubt they'll give me more pleasure than the Papilio's. The wide FOV is really a luxury in such a compact design.

Best regards,

Ronald

Ronald

The Nikons are only marketed as Prostaffs in the USA. The rest of the world knows them as the Travelite EX , thus a possible reason why your Google search was unsuccessful.

Tom
 
Well after all that I got the pentax 9x28's at an excellent price (I can afford to loose) and so far can't find any real reason not to be totally satisfied.
In a straight comparison with my 8x30 Yosemite, the Yo's have it in terms of optics, field of view, depth of field and ergonomics but only by a whisker.

To my untrained eye the pentax has very slightly more purple fringing, is pretty much as sharp although with a slightly smaller sweet spot, has slightly more contrast but slightly less overall brightness, there's really not a lot in it though. Considering it's higher mag the result is better than expected.

The narrow FOV doesn't bother me and the focus is much quicker. I love the weight, size and single hinge, the only real negatives are the lense caps feel welded on and the depth of field could be larger (although maybe it can't, I'm not sure how dof works?).

Resounding thumbs up at the price I paid (and excellent service from B&H). Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
I agree Ronald. Not only does the Papilo have a wider FoV, both true and apparent, it's lighter weight and with a significantly 2x greater depth of field by my calculations. The Papilio also has a slight larger exit pupil so will be just as bright as the Nikon in practice. Plus no other bino can focus as close.

The Papilio may have that but in direct side by side comparisons I felt the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 had a better view with better optics. Nikon also has a smoother focus wheel. I don't personally like the unusual shape and IPD adjustment of the Pentax compacts either. It's makes them ugly and chunky and I don't like the feel of them compared to the traditional design of the more streamlined Nikon Prostaff. I also prefer the rubber armouring on the Prostaff and the fact that it is waterproof.
 
Ronald

The Nikons are only marketed as Prostaffs in the USA. The rest of the world knows them as the Travelite EX , thus a possible reason why your Google search was unsuccessful.

Tom

Thanks, Tom,

I'll have another go and see what comes up!

Best regards,

Ronald
 
I agree Ronald. Not only does the Papilo have a wider FoV, both true and apparent, it's lighter weight and with a significantly 2x greater depth of field by my calculations. The Papilio also has a slight larger exit pupil so will be just as bright as the Nikon in practice. Plus no other bino can focus as close.

Hi Rick,

The depth of field is very good indeed! And the focus range is unrivalled by any other binocular. Did I mention the focus goes well over a half turn beyond infinity? I don't need that because I wear glasses, but non-glass wearers might find it an interesting feature.

The Papilio's are keepers!

Best regards,

Ronald
 
The Papilio may have that but in direct side by side comparisons I felt the Nikon Prostaff 8x25 had a better view with better optics. Nikon also has a smoother focus wheel. I don't personally like the unusual shape and IPD adjustment of the Pentax compacts either. It's makes them ugly and chunky and I don't like the feel of them compared to the traditional design of the more streamlined Nikon Prostaff. I also prefer the rubber armouring on the Prostaff and the fact that it is waterproof.

Hi Dennis,

The focus wheel on my pair of Papilio's turns with great ease; it's responsive to a delightfully high degree. I hate stiff focus wheels, but the one on the Papilio's is top notch! Never felt anything better, I think.
The Porters in their review of The Papilio 6.5x21 also assess that the focus wheel "turns with great ease".

Best regards,

Ronald
 
I agree Ronald. Not only does the Papilo have a wider FoV, both true and apparent, it's lighter weight and with a significantly 2x greater depth of field by my calculations. The Papilio also has a slight larger exit pupil so will be just as bright as the Nikon in practice. Plus no other bino can focus as close.

After recently recording and watching 4 hour long episodes of "Monster Bug Wars" on the Discovery Science Channel, I figured I'd spring for a pair of the 6.5 Papilios just for the close focus ability. I was quite impressed with the MBW programs, so lets hope the Papilios do the same.

Tom
 
After recently recording and watching 4 hour long episodes of "Monster Bug Wars" on the Discovery Science Channel, I figured I'd spring for a pair of the 6.5 Papilios just for the close focus ability. I was quite impressed with the MBW programs, so lets hope the Papilios do the same.

Tom

Bugs bug me. I am just not into the creepy crawleys. The only good bug is a dead bug.
 
Hi Dennis,

The focus wheel on my pair of Papilio's turns with great ease; it's responsive to a delightfully high degree. I hate stiff focus wheels, but the one on the Papilio's is top notch! Never felt anything better, I think.
The Porters in their review of The Papilio 6.5x21 also assess that the focus wheel "turns with great ease".

Best regards,

Ronald

Sorry, I did not find the focus wheel on the Papilio as smooth as the Nikon Prostaff. Nikon's seem to have really smooth focus wheels and they seem to know how to make a good porro prism as the SE and EII come to mind. I just don't personally like the optics on any of the Pentax reverse porro compacts. They all seem similar too. My Papilio went back to Amazon the next day but I am glad you are happy. Everybody has a different opinion.
 
Sorry, I did not find the focus wheel on the Papilio as smooth as the Nikon Prostaff. Nikon's seem to have really smooth focus wheels and they seem to know how to make a good porro prism as the SE and EII come to mind. I just don't personally like the optics on any of the Pentax reverse porro compacts. They all seem similar too. My Papilio went back to Amazon the next day but I am glad you are happy. Everybody has a different opinion.


Hmm, maybe there's sample variation in the focus wheels.
I'm thinking of getting me a second one, why not, the view is so pleasing;
would give me the chance of comparing ease of focus wheels.
Thanks BTW for your good-naturedness, I appreciate it.

Best regards,

Ronald
 
The Papilio's main shortcoming is its coatings or lack thereof. I think they may only be single coated on a few surfaces. This along with the optical window makes them very susceptible to glare. Lastly, while perhaps not shortcoming, at close focus they are an 8x due to the moving objectives.
 
The Papilio's main shortcoming is its coatings or lack thereof. I think they may only be single coated on a few surfaces. This along with the optical window makes them very susceptible to glare. Lastly, while perhaps not shortcoming, at close focus they are an 8x due to the moving objectives.

Hi Rick,

According to the Porters they're fully multicoated:

http://www.optics4birding.com/pentax-papilio-binoculars-review.aspx


I haven't seen glare yet, and I've been out the last couple of days in bright sunlight, watching Swifts and Swallows. I'll check if I can get them to show some.
The 8x at close focus appears to be true, yes. Very nice.

Best regards,

Ronald

PS: my back pain has gone, what a relief.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 13 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top