Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Friday 8th September 2017, 16:28   #1
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
Passion ED 8x32

Hello all. I haven't posted here much but hope to have a review of the Passion 8x32 model soon. I've been on a quest for a reasonably priced mid sized 8x binocular to replace my 8x30 Swaro Habichts that were stolen out of my car many years ago. Afterwards a bought a pair of Monarch 8x42s that served me quite well but I always thought it would be nice to get another mid size pair. So I've ended up buying a dozen different pairs of 8x30-32 binos in the sub $600 range over the last year and a half. Some have been quite nice but I haven't found a pair that feels like I want to keep it long term yet. Indeed all those pairs were either returned or resold. It's actually been a lot of fun and very educational checking them all out and amazing how different the quality can be for similarly priced glasses. I totally understand that I might never find exactly what I'm looking for in this price range but as I said I've had a lot of fun trying!

So after trying a full dozen pairs I thought I had exhausted the possibilities until I found the GPOs online this past weekend. I quickly ordered a pair from an online dealer whose website said they were in stock. When I called Monday to get an idea of how long they would take to get to me they told me they were backpordered for 25 days. That's when I decided to call GPO directly and I'm glad I did. I was able to talk with Mike Jensen directly and he had a pair shipped that very day! He was very helpful and told me he thought the Passions were better than the Terras and close to the Conquests. Since he worked for Zeiss I'm sure he knows those two models very well. My Passions are due to arrive next week. UPS takes awhile to get to Montana from the east coast! I'm looking forward to their arrival and will follow up when they get here. I'm not expecting perfection by any means but if the optics and build quality are good I'll be happy. That's it for now, I'll also give you my impressions of the others I've tried but don't have time to list them now and am headed out for the weekend shortly. Look for a follow up next week if this topic is of interest to you.
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th September 2017, 17:47   #2
jgraider
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,029
Upland, I will be very interested to hear what you have to say. Seems I've been down the same road you have with 8x32 class glass over the years. Most of the time I cannot get along with the limited eye relief/kidney bean effect/blackout issues, but was sorely disappointed in the 8x32 SV's piss poor glare control. I've sort of settled on the older 8x30 SLC wb, but have modified the eyepiece a bit to get satisfactory ER.

Looking forward to it.
jgraider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th September 2017, 22:52   #3
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 106
Upland, I wonder if you've tried the Opticron Traveller ED 8x32, that was favorably reviewed in this forum a few months back, during your quest.

Bill
wdc is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 12th September 2017, 23:30   #4
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
The GPO 8x32s arrived today and I've spent a good part of the afternoon checking them out. I would say i agree with BruceH's excellent review of the 8x42s and the only differences I observed from his review was that I found no slack in the focus wheel when I changed dierection. It was actually close to perfect for me with just the right amount of tension for my taste. Indeed the entire build quality of the Passion ED is exceptional especially when considering the price.

Now the hard part: even though these are very impressive in both build and optical qualities the eyecups are too short when extended to come up to my face all the way. When I pulled them down my nose to get the proper view they let stray light in and this causes reflections within the barrels. I tried putting on eyeshields and while that solved the reflection problem it didn't change the fit to my face. I'm going to keep playing around with them but I think this is going to be a deal killer for me☹️ I had a pair of Conquest's that had the same problem and it drove me nuts. While I heard that Zeiss offered longer eyecups I never pursued that as the focus was too quick and finicky for me. Maybe after the first production run of the Passions GPO will address this.

As long as I'm posting I'll give you a quick run down of all the mid sizes I've tried and a nutshell review/impression of them. of them. Some of these I tried over a year ago so I'm going memory which isn't quite as reliable as it used to be!

Zeiss Conquest: these were optically excellent but the lack of ED glass made the images somewhat flat as compared to others with it. As noted before the eyecups and focus issues bothered me. The only reason I was able to afford these was that I found a pair of demos for about 2/3rds the price of new ones. They also were the heaviest pair I've tried.

Vortex Talon: I actually like these quite a bit. The focusing isn't the smoothest but they have the most pop of any f the pairs I tried. I think it may be because they have a slight yellow cast that may act like high contrast sunglasses. I also like theirs looks and they feel good in the hands. My wife loves these and they now belong to her. They also don't have the widest sweet spot but the image within is very nice.

Leupold Mojave: I picked these up on clearance from REI and they are very nice for the price. They aren't very good with CA though. I'm not very sensitive to CA but I definitely noticed it with these.

Vanguard Endeavor ED: I wasn't impressed with build quality or optics of these. I knew after a couple of minutes they weren't for me so didn't spend much time with them.

Vortex Viper: good but not great build quality. The focus knob was a little rough and the hinge a little loose. The optics were good but they didn't fit my face and there were lots of internal barrel reflections.

Meopta Meopro: I had high hopes for these because the build quality was nice and astheticly I loved them. Unfortunately I had the same or slightly worse focus issue with them as the Conquests and they also had considerable CA especially considering they use ED glass.

Kowa BD XD: very nice overall but the eyepieces were short. Arghh!

Eagle Optics Ranger: these are nearly identical to the Vortex Viper with the same issues for me.

Nikon Monarch 7: these had so much flare in one of the barrels I thought they were defective.

REI ED Series 8x32: I didn't really expect much out of these but on clearance at $43 I just had to get a pair. They aren't the greatest optically but much better than I thought they would be They only weigh 13 ounces and now reading in my car.

Minox Bl HD These were the best of the bunch for me. The build quality was excellent as to be expected since they are assembled in Germany. The optics were quite good as well. They fit my face nicely and I'm feeling like I should have kept them especially since I bought them on closeout for about half price.

That's about it for now. I guess the search will continue unless I decide to keep the GPOs but I'm thinking the eyepieces are going to be a deal breaker. Too bad because they really are nice. Perhaps I'll try the Opticrons. Thanks for the suggestion. I considered a pair of theirs last year but they didn't have ED glass then. Maybe it's time to check them out. Cheers and sorry for any typos as I need to go and don't have time to check for them.
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 02:27   #5
jgraider
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,029
Upland, thanks for the nice review.

Question: Do the eyecups unscrew completely from the binocular/can you remove them? If so, put a rubber o-ring or two underneath them, reattach, and your ER problem will likely be solved. I have the same ER problems you describe with many different 8x32 config binocs, and this works. At least it did on my Euro HD's, and Swaro 8x30WB's.
jgraider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 04:02   #6
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 106
Upland, Thanks for sharing all your impressions. It is interesting to see how unavoidably subjective the impressions are for the variety of the equipment you've tried. I think it represents an honest response, and shows that there is no 'perfect' binocular for any one person, regardless of the published 'specs'.

Bill
wdc is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 16:57   #7
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
Yes that's absolutely correct. I'm not implying everyone will have the same experience with these as me. I know lots of people love some of the binos I've tried and they all had good qualities. I'm not looking for perfection in this price though. Just a pair that's well built, fits my face and has decent optics. The only one that had those qualities for me personally has been the Minox and I probably should have kept them. However it has been fun trying all the different models out and I'm thinking of checking out the Opticrons and also Leupold's new Mojave BX-4 Pro Guide 8x32. Hopefully one of them will work out as our Golden Eagle migration is about to start along the Bridger mountains crest. I've been told it is the largest concentration of golden eagles in the world. Not sure if that's true but there sure are a lot of them! There is also a raptor fest at Bridger Bowl ski area usually the first week in October that's a lot of fun. If anyone is in the area please look me up. We even have an extra bedroom at our house.

PS The perfect 8x32 for me does exist. It's the Leica HD Plus. I've checked them out a couple times and now start to drool whenever I pass the optics display at our local store. Unfortunately they're just a little out of my budget��
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:13   #8
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
 
BruceH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upland View Post
.......
Zeiss Conquest: these were optically excellent but the lack of ED glass made the images somewhat flat as compared to others with it. As noted before the eyecups and focus issues bothered me. ......

.... Perhaps I'll try the Opticrons. Thanks for the suggestion. I considered a pair of theirs last year but they didn't have ED glass then. Maybe it's time to check them out. Cheers and sorry for any typos as I need to go and don't have time to check for them.
Upland ..... First, thank you for the kind comment about my GPO 8X42 ED posting.

On the one hand it was good to hear the 8X32 GO ED is also a good binocular but then it is to bad it also comes with an eye cup to short for some of us. Hopefully Mike J. can come up with a future solution. I have to hold my GPO a little higher to the brow than I would normally like but it does work out for me. The GPO has been holding up well and I still think highly of it.

Leica has received similar comments on the new Noctivid and has some sort of eye cup fix. Best I can tell it is not a replacement of the entire eye cup, but a part of it. I have yet to see one. This is not an issue unique to GPO. As you mentioned Zeiss had some issues with the Conquest but addressed it with an optional replacement eye cup. Zen-Ray runs on the short side for me with some of their models. The newer Bushnell Legend M addresses the Zen-Ray ED3 issue to some extent. Swaro overall works best for me when it comes to easy eye placement. I suspect they put a lot of thought into that aspect of the design.

I assume the Zeiss Conquest you mentioned is the Zeiss Conquest HD 8X32? If so, then it does have ED glass. I do not think that was the case with the prior Conquest generation.

I went to confirm the ED glass status on the Zeiss website and all that it says is the Conqust HD has the Zeiss HD Lens System but unfortunately the site does not offer any description of what makes up the HD Lens Systems and unlike the description of the lower end Schott ED glass equipped Terra, it does not state that the Conquest HD has ED glass. This motivated me to call Zeiss because I was sure that I remembered learning it had ED glass when it was first introduced.

The Zeiss rep found some internal documentation that stated the Conquest HD had the HD lens system "with ED glass". Why Zeiss does not publicly state that on the web site and other public product information is beyond me. It sure makes things hard and confusing for the buyer. I am not sure why you were getting a flat view, which I assume to mean dull rather than sharp to the edges.

Was the Leupold in you list the 8X32 Leupold BX-3 Mojave?

I go along with WDC and think that one Opticron model which might work is the new Opticron 8X32 Traveller BGA ED. It looks a lot like the Leupold BX-3 Mojave and the clone Cabeia's Guide 8X32. I have the Guide and it fits fairly well and its an excellent overall binocular. The Luepold/Guide version does not have ED glass but the new Traveller does. That may resolve the CA issue you observed in the Luepold, assuming it was the BX-3 Mojave. From my recent reseach of the Opticron IMagic, the B in BGA means it works well for eye glass wearers and the GA mean rubber armor. I assume ED is for ED glass.

Good luck with the search and please let us know how the GPO ultilmately works out for you.
__________________
It's all about the view!
vs.
A fool and his money are soon parted!
(The Yin Yang of the Binocular Forum)
BruceH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:25   #9
jgraider
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,029
So, can anyone with first hand knowledge of GPO binocs verify if the eyepieces can be completely removed please? Thanks.
jgraider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:43   #10
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
 
BruceH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 2,076
JG ..... I attempted to unscrew the eye caps on my GPO 8X42 ED in both the clockwise and counter clockwise directions and they did not budge.
__________________
It's all about the view!
vs.
A fool and his money are soon parted!
(The Yin Yang of the Binocular Forum)
BruceH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:58   #11
jgraider
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,029
Thanks BruceH. Much appreciated.
jgraider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 22:46   #12
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
Thanks for the comments Bruce. Very interesting about the ED glass in the Conquests. Before I bought mine I contacted Zeiss customer service via email and they told me the exact opposite. They said the Terra's did and Conquests had an HD system but no ED glass. That was less than a year ago so I would think it would be the same glass but perhaps they changed it recently. Anyways I thought that was why the images didnt have much pop to them. Even so the constant need to refocus drove me crazy and I've seen many other reviews that say the same.

Yes the Leupold's were the Mojave BX-3 8x32. Nice binos for the money and my suspicion is the Cabela's guide model is a clone as well. Leupold never did produce them with ED glass as they did the full size Mojave BX-3 models which called Mojave BX-3 Pro Guide HD. Interesting they have just introduced the BX-4 Pro Guide HD models and there is an 8x32.

I actually just left the post office after mailing the GPOs back. The were super nicely built but I need binos that I can just put up to my face and not have think about.


So I also just noticed that Sightron is making an ED 8x32 SIII model. I've heard good things about the non ED model but don't really know much about Sightron. If anybody had any insight I would appreciate it. I did call their CS and was told they are Japanese which is encouraging to me. Thanks
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:11   #13
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
 
james holdsworth's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 2,908
Gary told us ages ago, with no doubt, that the Conquest HD had ED or HD glass [whatever you choose to call it].
__________________
''serenity now....insanity later.'' - Lloyd Brawn
james holdsworth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:21   #14
NDhunter
Registered User
 
NDhunter's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ND
Posts: 3,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upland View Post
Thanks for the comments Bruce. Very interesting about the ED glass in the Conquests. Before I bought mine I contacted Zeiss customer service via email and they told me the exact opposite. They said the Terra's did and Conquests had an HD system but no ED glass. That was less than a year ago so I would think it would be the same glass but perhaps they changed it recently. Anyways I thought that was why the images didnt have much pop to them. Even so the constant need to refocus drove me crazy and I've seen many other reviews that say the same.

Yes the Leupold's were the Mojave BX-3 8x32. Nice binos for the money and my suspicion is the Cabela's guide model is a clone as well. Leupold never did produce them with ED glass as they did the full size Mojave BX-3 models which called Mojave BX-3 Pro Guide HD. Interesting they have just introduced the BX-4 Pro Guide HD models and there is an 8x32.

I actually just left the post office after mailing the GPOs back. The were super nicely built but I need binos that I can just put up to my face and not have think about.


So I also just noticed that Sightron is making an ED 8x32 SIII model. I've heard good things about the non ED model but don't really know much about Sightron. If anybody had any insight I would appreciate it. I did call their CS and was told they are Japanese which is encouraging to me. Thanks
Upland:

You should know, that it does not matter much what a seller calls a glass
type, either ED or HD.
You mentioned the Zeiss Conquest HD and the Zeiss Terra.

They are both priced for performance. The Conquest is made in Germany
and the Terra in China. The glass type, not sure as it does not matter, I own both and know how they perform. I suppose Zeiss knows how to make binoculars.

Jerry
NDhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:29   #15
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
Perhaps but that's not what Zeiss told me. Obviously they told Bruce the opposite. Not that it matters. I have found that some manufacturers like Opticron call their binos HD when in fact they do not have ED glass in them. Clever marketing ploy? Perhaps. Of course I intially thought HD referred to glass when in fact most manufacturers say it is a High Definition optical system when you read their descriptions. I hope the Conquest do in fact have ED glass. They should for the price!
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:42   #16
NDhunter
Registered User
 
NDhunter's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ND
Posts: 3,468
Could you tell us the difference between ED and HD glass in binoculars ?

Since you are so keen on this, it is important.

Jerry
NDhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 01:11   #17
Upland
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 41
Gentlemen this is getting silly. This is the precise reason I don't post on these sites much: internet experts who put words in your mouth. I'm simply sharing things that I've noticed. My understanding is that ED glass is a denser more mineral rich glass that has lower dispersion qualities that help to create sharper more CA free images. HD could mean the same thing or not depending on the manufacturer. You need to do your homework and find out what they mean by HD as I have found it to vary. Also I Never said the glass on a Terra was better than the Conquest mearly that Zeiss told me the Terra's had ED glass and the Conquests did not. Anybody who's looked at both knows the Conquest has better glass. The Conquest is a fine binocular and I never said otherwise. They just didn't work for me.

I'm done posting here. I'll let you experts carry on the conversation
Upland is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 02:13   #18
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
 
BruceH's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
Could you tell us the difference between ED and HD glass in binoculars ?

Since you are so keen on this, it is important.

Jerry
"HD" is not a type of glass, it is a marketing term. It seems to have caught on during the HD TV transition where the optics sellers were wanting to get some benefits from all of the HD hype at the time.

Here is what Zeiss has to say about ED and HD (Underlines are mine):

--------------------

What is the difference between FL, HD, HT and ED?

ED = Extra low Dispersion = low chromatic aberrations

HD = High Definition. HD is not a type of lens. Instead it describes the result of the ED lenses: very good resolution

FL = Fluoride Lenses; a special, high-quality sub-category of the ED lenses

HT = High Transmission = lenses by Schott with very good transmission properties.

We use HT in the sense of a complete HT concept: binoculars that are based on the FL binoculars but which have extremely high levels of light transmission. VICTORY HT binoculars also have FL and HT lenses.

________________

Extra low dispersion glass is higher quality so someone with a good eye should notice a difference between a binocular with ED glass vs. one without for the reasons given by Upland, all other things about the binocular being equal.

Upland ...... That is confusing when we each get a different answer to the same question. My bet would go on ED glass for the Conquest. One reason is that the Conquest is a higher tier than the Terra and the Terra has ED glass. There are different quality levels of ED glass and I would think the Conquest glass is up in quality compared to the less expensive Terra. Second, Ziess says in the above quote that "HD" describes the result of the ED lenses. That implies to me that the HD Lens System uses ED glass. If I find out more, I will post it. Please do not let a couple of persnickety comments discourage you from posting. I for one appreciate your contributions.

Thanks for the info on the Luepold. If you liked it other than the CA, then you may have success with the new Traveller.

Sightron is a Kenko company and Sightron's mission is to sell to the hunting market here in the U.S. I believe at least some of the Sightron products are made in the Philippines. I might be wrong on that, but I recall that it is somewhere other than China or Japan. Some of the older Sightron products were lacking on specs and much appeared to be going after the value market. I have not looked at them lately.

http://www.kenkoglobal.com/about-us/...any-chart.html


On Edit:

Here is the post from Gary, who was with Zeiss at the time, stating ED glass for the Conquest HD.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.ph...5&postcount=43
__________________
It's all about the view!
vs.
A fool and his money are soon parted!
(The Yin Yang of the Binocular Forum)

Last edited by BruceH : Thursday 14th September 2017 at 02:58. Reason: Added link
BruceH is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 16th September 2017, 23:18   #19
cycleguy
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: mile high, colorado
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upland View Post
Gentlemen this is getting silly. This is the precise reason I don't post on these sites much: internet experts who put words in your mouth. I'm simply sharing things that I've noticed. ....

.... I'm done posting here. I'll let you experts carry on the conversation
Upland,

"Don't let the bast**ds get you down"!!!

Keep posting.... i appreciate most everybody's comments & opinions.

CG
cycleguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 19th September 2017, 01:18   #20
NDhunter
Registered User
 
NDhunter's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ND
Posts: 3,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy View Post
Upland,

"Don't let the bast**ds get you down"!!!

Keep posting.... i appreciate most everybody's comments & opinions.

CG
Cigi: What is your point ?

Jerry

Last edited by NDhunter : Tuesday 19th September 2017 at 02:26.
NDhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 19th September 2017, 15:42   #21
Troubador
Registered User
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
Could you tell us the difference between ED and HD glass in binoculars ?

Since you are so keen on this, it is important.

Jerry
Jerry
This is trolling and you know better than to do this.

If you feel a fellow poster has misunderstood something, with your superior experience you should be able to give friendly advice, not troll the poster off the site.

Lee
Troubador is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Review: GPO Passion HD 8x42 Steve C GPO 57 Monday 3rd April 2017 17:48
Passion flower help needed JDV Trees, Flowers, Plants and Shrubs 2 Tuesday 13th June 2006 14:25
Expensive Passion . . . Beverlybaynes Birds & Birding 0 Thursday 26th January 2006 09:03
Passion for Books birdman Books, Magazines, Publications, Video & DVD 23 Thursday 17th April 2003 11:40



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.21566200 seconds with 31 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:48.