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What? Say that again? (1 Viewer)

That is why nobody, that knows anything about binoculars, ever pays any attention to Outdoor Life Optics "reviews" for lack of a better term.

On some old very wide angle porros, which have almost no eye relief, that technique has some merit. It is...clueless...in that link.

About the only way I can see where that might work is in specific instances of a particular user with small,deep set eyes needs to retract the eye cup, only because the ocular diameter is too large to let the eye cup get close enough to the eye. That can't be much of a binocular user segment
 
Hello,

Bizarre and useless for many. The author may be writing from his own personal needs: he is the mismeasure of all things.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
It just irks me when I see an article with so much misinformation. Outdoor Life is supposedly not a small publication - I see the magazine on the shelves in Canada too. I really hope that people know better than to believe this article. Just.. absolutely wrong.
 
Bill McRae would of never posted that stupid "Expert Tip":-O when he was at Outdoor Life. I am glad I don't get the magazine anymore, well for quite some time.
 
Everything that spokesperson stated is absolutely true. Did you guys even watch the video? He makes three key points:

1. Correct eyecup extension -- He is absolutely correct - not everyone will get their correct ER if they adjust the eyecups all the way out. Some people will actually need a bit less extension, rather than full extension. If your correct ER distance is with eyecups fully extended, then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *you* can use your eyecups fully extended.

2. Potential decrease in FOV with fully extended eyecups -- once again, absolutely correct. I have several binos that have eyecups that will intrude into the FOV when fully extended. Most notably an older Pentax porro, which has an extremely short ER. If you can see the full FOV with your eyecups fully extended (as I can with most of my binos), then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *your* binos don't slightly obscure FOV.

3. Fogging when extended -- absolutely correct. This happens quite frequently to me when I am extremely hot and sweaty. Fully extended eyecups trap the water vapor coming off my face, and then fogs the oculars. Also happens sometimes during extremely cold weather when the binos have cold-soaked for a while too. Collapsing the eyecups allows air to circulate, which resolves the fogging. If you live in an environment where this doesn't happen, then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *you* don't see it.
 
But, doesn't everyone simply use the eyecups as close in as possible without getting blackouts? Why the long explanation? For me, this typically means I have to use eyecups fully extended, but of course I would dial them back in if there were no blackouts.
 
Everything that spokesperson stated is absolutely true. Did you guys even watch the video? He makes three key points:

1. Correct eyecup extension -- He is absolutely correct - not everyone will get their correct ER if they adjust the eyecups all the way out. Some people will actually need a bit less extension, rather than full extension. If your correct ER distance is with eyecups fully extended, then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *you* can use your eyecups fully extended.

2. Potential decrease in FOV with fully extended eyecups -- once again, absolutely correct. I have several binos that have eyecups that will intrude into the FOV when fully extended. Most notably an older Pentax porro, which has an extremely short ER. If you can see the full FOV with your eyecups fully extended (as I can with most of my binos), then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *your* binos don't slightly obscure FOV.

3. Fogging when extended -- absolutely correct. This happens quite frequently to me when I am extremely hot and sweaty. Fully extended eyecups trap the water vapor coming off my face, and then fogs the oculars. Also happens sometimes during extremely cold weather when the binos have cold-soaked for a while too. Collapsing the eyecups allows air to circulate, which resolves the fogging. If you live in an environment where this doesn't happen, then count yourself lucky, but don't discount what he stated just because *you* don't see it.

Kind of what I was thinking.....
 
But, doesn't everyone simply use the eyecups as close in as possible without getting blackouts? Why the long explanation? For me, this typically means I have to use eyecups fully extended, but of course I would dial them back in if there were no blackouts.

I think Pete hit bullseye. There is certainly merit in trying out different eyecup positions. For example following a change in my spectacles I have found a move from fully screwed down to one notch unscrewed is advantageous with some bins.

But the inference that many binoculars limit FOV with the eyecups at full extension doesn't match my experience at all. In fact I can't remember one that did this.

Lee
 
But the inference that many binoculars limit FOV with the eyecups at full extension doesn't match my experience at all. In fact I can't remember one that did this.

Lee

Maybe it just seems that way, or at least it does to me. Tunneling, decreased FOV, whatever it is, is very apparent to me if my eyecups are extended too far.
 
Yes I looked at the video. After Phil's comment I looked at it again. It is still a crummy video. There are a couple of things here. First and foremost he comes across as though those eye cup adjustments are something for everyone. However even though you can increase fov with less than full eye cup extension, you can also increase veiling glare to the point of making the binocular distinctly unpleasant to view.. Most people I think need the eye cup fully extended. I'm one of those. I will always,every day of the week and twice on Sunday opt for whatever eye cup extension works for the most comfortable use of the binocular. If that is an insignificant fov decrease, so be it. I will be a more effective glasser if I do not have to worry about dealing with glare issues induced, or worsened by too little eye cup extension. So will, in my opinion, most people. You have to get the eye cup adjusted for however the binocular is most comfortable to use. He saying crank it down. Sorry I disagree.

He is correct about cold mornings and warm faces. I think you are nuts if you think that cranking down the eye cup assembly will remove fogging issues. All you do is to increase the difficulty of holding the glass far away from your face that you can see anything. A medium setting with application of the MOLCET technique will be a better cure. I will point out here that using a binocular that I have to fiddle with the MOLCET angle is not ideal and typically won't own one where i have to use that. It is however, at least in some circumstances, preferable to fogged lenses.

That would have been better served to look at the focus issue starting with just how do you set up the binocular focus for each eye for you. He just blows right past that point first thing. That is the single most often misunderstood and misused facet of binocular use. Starting there, and then going into the fact every face is different and talking about the various binocular adjustments.

He is right about every binocular having a particular eye relief and field of view.

Cranking down eye cups to increase fov is not a cure for most people. Yes it can increase fov, but it may also increase user difficulty, unless your particular eye favours that setting.
 
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I have never used a binocular that limited the FOV when its eye cups were fully extended. When I try using one with the eye cups down I get black outs and find it impossible to hold the binocular steady while I am searching for the eye relief I require.

I have read here in the past that some people have removed the eye cups completely and experienced a wider view. I belief that Frank D. experimented with it and wrote about it here. I don't know if he uses binoculars in that manner now. Personally, I would give up using binoculars rather than have to use them in this manner!

It seems that almost all binoculars except most prominently, Swarovski, now have multiple positions for their eye cups so almost everybody should be able to find an eye position that accommodates them.

I have experienced fogging of the ocular lenses when using my Nikon 8x30 EII which has short eye relief. I have never run into that problem with binoculars which have long eye relief over 15mm.

Bob
 
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But the inference that many binoculars limit FOV with the eyecups at full extension doesn't match my experience at all. In fact I can't remember one that did this.

Lee

Like I stated -- count yourself lucky that you don't have one of those binoculars. But they are out there, even if you have not seen one......
 
I have never used a binocular that limited the FOV when its eye cups were fully extended. When I try using one with the eye cups down I get black outs and find it impossible to hold the binocular steady while I am searching for the eye relief I require.

I have read here in the past that some people have removed the eye cups completely and experienced a wider view. I belief that Frank D. experimented with it and wrote about it here. I don't know if he uses binoculars in that manner now. Personally, I would give up using binoculars rather than have to use them in this manner!

It seems that almost all binoculars except most prominently, Swarovski, now have multiple positions for their eye cups so almost everybody should be able to find an eye position that accommodates them.

I have experienced fogging of the ocular lenses when using my Nikon 8x30 EII which has short eye relief. I have never run into that problem with binoculars which have long eye relief over 15mm.

Bob

Bob:

Swarovski is one maker that has very long eye relief, and if you don't
wear eyeglasses, you will often find an eyecup position in the middle,
and not full out.

Many others, don't offer that. I have found Leica and Zeiss are full out,
Nikon can vary.

Jerry
 
Bob:

Swarovski is one maker that has very long eye relief, and if you don't
wear eyeglasses, you will often find an eyecup position in the middle,
and not full out.

Many others, don't offer that. I have found Leica and Zeiss are full out,
Nikon can vary.

Jerry

Jerry,

I have a Swarovski 7x42 SLC B with 19mm ER. It doesn't have intermediate positions but I don't need them. I have no trouble using the full 19mm; in fact it is great!

I gave my 8x30 SLC B which did not have intermediate stops to my son because I found the 15.5 mm ER was a bit short for me to use comfortably.

My Nikon 8x32 LX/L works fine with its 16mm ER; it has intermediate stops which I don't need and can't use. My Kahles 8x32 with 16mm ER does not have intermediate stops and it also works fine for me.

My old Leica 7x42 Trinovid BN only has only one full out position of 17+mm from fully closed. I have no problem using it. My Leica 8x42 BL Ultravid has 3 positions from fully closed up to fully open at 15.5mm which I can also use without problems. (I don't know why I can use it but the 15.5mm on the 8x30 SLC gave me problems?) The ones closer in on the BL all give me blackouts.

My Zeiss Victory 7x42 FL T* also has 3 positions from fully closed to fully open at 16mm and the only one I can use is at fully open because I get black outs with the others.

Bob
 
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Maybe it just seems that way, or at least it does to me. Tunneling, decreased FOV, whatever it is, is very apparent to me if my eyecups are extended too far.

Like I stated -- count yourself lucky that you don't have one of those binoculars. But they are out there, even if you have not seen one......

Guys, if you say bins like this are out there then I accept it. What I am sceptical about is how common this is. In the four years I have been visiting Bird Forum I have seen a gazillion posts about issues with eyecups but I don't recall a steady stream of complaints about loss of FOV with eyecups at full extension. What happens on Bird Forum isn't necessarily representative of the real world of course but it is an indication.

Lee
 
But the inference that many binoculars limit FOV with the eyecups at full extension doesn't match my experience at all. In fact I can't remember one that did this.

It depends on your face as much as it does on the binocular. For me, indeed I don't see the full FOV if eyecups are full out. On my Leica, I have them only 2-3 mm out. Even on bins with very long eye relieve (e.g. Zeiss SF), I need a position somewhere half in. So for me, the recommendations of this blog apply.

But then, I think it's kind of a non-issue. Doesn't anyone (except complete binocular dummies) know that you need to find your own optimum position of the eyecups?
 
Eye cups are a too often overlooked part of binocular design. It's important because the view and use of the binocular will be uncomfortable and compromised if the cups are nor optimized to your face. I have customized almost all my binoculars with very simple and cheap means (see pics for some examples) and doing this I learned two things:

1. there are binoculars on the market that are just awful, even unusable. Some of these are from companies of long and high standard.

2. adjusting width (diameter) is just as important as height (diameter).


Some advice here:

1. Click stops on eye cups are just a fad, all that's needed is friction.

2. Companies should offer eye cups of variable height and width on all models

3. Try to get as close to the eye lens as is comfortable

4. A somewhat loose fit, as opposed to eye cups that sit tight in the eye sockets, is good for the view. You have to be able to not only move your eyes through the viewing circle, but also to slightly move the binoculars in the sockets or on the elbrow.

Renze
 

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