Vortex VIper 10x42 or Stokes DLS 10x42 (1 Viewer)

I know there was a thread on this same thing in 8x, do the same
opinions apply for the 10x models???

I have viewed the 10x vipers and loved them over a lot of other models
at the store. No one around here carries Stokes though, so I'm not
convinced if I should order a pair sight unseen. Help me decide, thanks.

CameralandNY has the Stokes on sale for less money than the Viper. That seems a no brainer to me. The Viper is a good binocular and I like mine a lot. However I do think the Stokes is a touch better. You won't go real wrong with either one.

The same price at EO, but only for the 10x
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4093

I thought the stokes had slightly better overall construction (much nicer focus - really smooth). With the Stokes being able to be found for less than the Vipers I would strongly consider them.

To me the Stokes had slightly less CA (color fringing) off center than the Vipers. Both control CA well in the center.

The shape of the eye cups are very different between these two bins and it's really something one needs to try.

To me the Stokes DLS appear to flair out where they fit against your eyes, and they are more squared off. While I really liked the binoculars, I could not comfortably use them because of the design of the eye cups.

The Vipers have more of a tapered and rounded eye cup. The fit and feel of these eye cups worked for me.

In the end I went with the Vipers because of the combination of optics, fit and feel, and price. Given the current price of the Stokes DLS, if they had the same eye cups as the Vipers, then I'd buy the Stokes and wouldn't give it a second thought.

Enjoy.

thanks everyone

thanks folks,
I just realized that Optics4birding.com has an actual store in Irvine,
which is 35 miles away from me. I'm going to drive over there and check
both models out. They list the Stokes DLS for more than EO but offer
price matching, so we'll see what happens. I think the Vipers are pretty
sweet as it is, but can't wait to check out the Stokes.

BirderSean said:

thanks folks,
I just realized that Optics4birding.com has an actual store in Irvine,
which is 35 miles away from me. I'm going to drive over there and check
both models out. They list the Stokes DLS for more than EO but offer
price matching, so we'll see what happens. I think the Vipers are pretty
sweet as it is, but can't wait to check out the Stokes.

Click to expand...

I own both the Viper and the Stokes (couldn't resist the $450 price tag), think both are excellent but vastly prefer the optics of the Stokes. The Viper is well worth the $500 cost and is a more than OK hunting binocular but the Stokes is noticeably better in terms of brightness, absence of flare and crisp "bitingly" sharp images.

where are they made?

Anyone know where these two brands (or these specific models) are
manufactured?

Vipers are made in Japan. I suspect the Stokes are also.

Tero said:

Vipers are made in Japan. I suspect the Stokes are also.

Click to expand...

The Stokes are made in Japan.

Revived this thread rather than keep dragging the "bargains" thread off-topic. I have recently received the Vortex/Stokes DLS 10x42(sale priced at $449).

Good:
-Gorgeous binoculars. Pictures do not do them justice. Best looking binoculars I've ever seen. The armor is fairly thin, but firm, perfectly fit, and very attractive. The silver diopter and focus knob, with their black knurling, accent the deep green armor beautifully.
-Outstanding ergonomics. Fit me perfectly, just as hoped. The high position of the strap lugs keeps them out of the way, and the curvature of the armor as it rises to surround them, in conjunction with the inward curve of the tubes themselves, makes for a very comfortable grip.
-With one exception(listed below), build quality appears to be as good or better than any binocular I've had the opportunity to handle.
-The eye relief vs. eyecup height matched up well. I'm sure this varies by individual based on facial features, but it fits me perfectly, with no need to adjust position to avoid blackouts even during rapid panning.
-Focus knob looks nice, the knurling gives positive traction, and movement is extremely smooth.
-Diopter adjustment doesn't lock, but has click stops. It is very firm, and nicely knurled like the focus knob.
-Color neutral with great contrast. Very similar to the view through my DCF ED, but a bit better, having no evident color bias. Yellow/blue was balanced, but did not have appropriate subjects to see how the red/green compared.
I think the EL and SLC 10x42s I looked through a few days ago show deeper color(as they do compared to the Pentax DCF ED), but did not have the DLS to until a day later.
-Minimal CA from what I can see. Viewing conditions were good, so it's hard to make a judgment based on my limited time with them.

Subjective:
-Extremely fast focus. DOF was actually decent for a 10x42 roof, I thought, but the slightest nudge of the knob takes them out of focus.
-Stray light is not bad, but in challenging circumstances expresses itself in a single straight "spike" of light across the view from the direction of the light source, along with a section of the view opposite showing a bit of glare(sort of a combination of how the Pentax DCF SP and ED exhibit glare, but not better or worse than either).

Bad:
-Eyecups collapse from the intermediate positions. Not an issue for my use, but come on. Bushnell's Brownings and Pentax's DCFs have positive detents, how hard can it be to get an eyecup right?
-My unit is out of collimation. Images at less than 50+ft. do not merge completely. Looks fine at the center, but leaves overlapping circles at the edges of the view, and is very distracting. No doubt it would also cause eye strain with much use.
Failed the "star test". Instead of the focused star image being centered in the defocused one, it wasn't even inside the circle. Looked kind of like this>> O.

So it goes. I want to love them, but instead return yet another Vortex binocular(3rd of 3):-C

The Vortex Viper has an issue with eye cups as well. They do not collapse, but due to another problem, a loose plastic cylinder that the screw out part is on, mine are going in to repair.

The low end, under $1000, will need to prove themselves more, including ProMaster.

I have a thread started on eye cups alone.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=128981

OwenM said:

Revived this thread rather than keep dragging the "bargains" thread off-topic. I have recently received the Vortex/Stokes DLS 10x42(sale priced at $449).
Bad:
-Eyecups collapse from the intermediate positions. Not an issue for my use, but come on. Bushnell's Brownings and Pentax's DCFs have positive detents, how hard can it be to get an eyecup right?

Click to expand...

I agree. I ordered these, received them, and took them out yesterday.

I like everything about them you mentioned, but the eyecups. If I hold them too hard against my face, the eyecups don't hold their position, and
push back in. This is annoying.

I'm trying to decide whether to send them back for the Vipers.
I didn't really like anything else in this price range.

My other set is the Browning 8x32s. I love the ergonomics of these, and the eyecups hold their position solidly. I just wanted to get a 10x bin with slightly better optics. But I haven't been able to find one with the same ergonomics as the Browning.

Like I said..elesewhere maybe...I like Pentax eye cups better. 42mm or 32mm is up to you for 8x, 10x42 is the only 10x. If stray light is a problem, 42mm is safer.

I haven't shipped these out, yet.
You what's weird? I can't reproduce the problems from before. I spent 3 hrs. comparing the DLS to my 8x32 ED today. Tripod mounted, mounted on a tilt head on a monopod, and on a solid rest on a table(the EDs are freaking awesome-I just hadn't realized!). I redid the star test several times from the tripod tonight, and it's not dead on, but not as bad as I thought.
Still...something is off somewhere. I carefully set the diopter in the same way I usually do(tripod mounted, focusing on a screw head at a distance that leaves no doubt when you hit optimal focus, then confirming on various items). The setting is at +2 instead of 0 or a tiny nudge past like all my other binoculars.
I wonder what's going on there, and if it keeps the DLS from being as sharp as the ED. I really want to think that a prime sample would be as good or better, and may give another one a chance. I LOVE the body/ergos of the DLS and am having a hard time giving up on it. It's like it was custom made for me. Having been newly reminded by the comparisons that I don't really need 10x, part of me wants to add $330 to the return and get the 8x42 version. I'm going to drive myself nuts with this.

Owen,

As I remember your Vortex experience it has not been a good one for you. However, before you let it drive you nuts, send it to Vortex. They will attend to it. If the repaired or replaced binocular you get back is not up to your needs, the you can get rid of it with a clear conscience.

It does sound like there is a collimation and/or diopter issue. At any rate, if it were me I'd send them back and see what happens.

Owen:

try this:

0. set the diopter to 0 (I assume its on the right eye)
1. Mount the bin on a tripod and aim it
2. Cover the right objective with the cover
3. With your left eye focus on a distant (several hundred meters) sharp target.
4. Uncover the right objective
5. With your LEFT eye look through the right barrel

Do you need to tweak the focus control to get sharpest image? If you do then the diopter setting has an offset.

If it is offset go back and do the same procedure but instead of using the focus set the diopter setting (using your LEFT eye on the right barrel).

This should tell you how far off the diopter setting is.

Being off can be annoying (as shows not enough attention was applied when making and testing it) but so long as it's in range it will work for you. Or you have the solid evidence you need to send it back.

The 10x versus 8x is another matter

If the dipter setting is not on the right barrel flip left and right above.

Yes, Vortex guarantee is good, no receipts needed.

-My unit is out of collimation. Images at less than 50+ft. do not merge completely. Looks fine at the center, but leaves overlapping circles at the edges of the view, and is very distracting.

Click to expand...

I have some 5 or 6 roof prisms and one porro. None of them have concentric circles when I test them indoors at some 30ft. They can't, the collimation is for longer distances. The porros cause eye strain for me at short distance, the roofs do not. But even the porros are OK at over 50ft for longer times.

I had the same "loose diopter" problem with Excursion EX 8x36. They are gone.

Ok, I followed Kevin's instructions.
~200yds. ID plates on a power pole. White letters on a black plate and smaller blue one. Left eye only, both barrels clear with a diopter setting of 0. Numbers are focused in the right barrel, but smaller than in the left. Image gets incrementally larger with each click, and looks the same size as the left barrel with the diopter at +2.
~70ft. Power meter on the next door neighbors' house with black lettering on a white background, and an LCD readout. Left eye only. Left barrel focused. Right barrel fuzzy at 0, pops into focus when the diopter hits +2.
At both distances, the diopter must be set to +2 for a clear image when using both eyes.

edit: I've been redoing my comparisons of yesterday, since most of my viewing was with the diopter set at 0. They are sharper now that the diopter is +2, not quite as clean edged as the EDs, which sharply delineate separate items, but it's very close, and the 10x shows more detail. Seem brighter, too. Same neutral color rendition. Wonderful.
So the diopter setting is off, but the bins are working fine.
editing over my edit: I called EO and talked to my original salesperson, and believe the diopter being at a different setting is a non-issue, and I will keep these.

So those results are consistent with the original observations.

The final thing to check (the EO people may have already tried it) is is the diopter ring actually centered correctly i.e they haven't put the thing on at an offset angle.

Check by moving to the diopter ring to the end stops ... are they symmetrical about the zero?

The only disadvantage of having built in offset is on resale when you sell to someone with two different eyes and no astigmatism who doesn't like to wear glasses with bins. They might not be able to null out the difference.

Regardless I'm glad you're happy with these bins.

BTW, I got a free ($29 value!) Audubon 8x40 from Camera Land with a Stokes Sandpiper. The bin isn't bad given it's not waterproof and made from plastic the single MgF coated optics is actually OK in collimation. But the diopter offset (with click settings!) was so bad it need to be fully to an end stop for the bin to be zeroed.

So I guess that's a worst case.