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Mutiny on the squirrel bounty? (1 Viewer)

CornishExile

rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!
From The Telegraph - note the endorsement by the apparently still credible Songbird Survival; also the entirely hilarious suggestion by the aptly named Mr Hunt, that to despatch a trapped squirrel one should lure it into a sack, then put your hands into the sack and wring its neck... Mr Hunt presumably has never tried this, or just enjoys having his thumbs gnawed by enraged rats. ;)

First it was magpies, now shooters are offered £500 to wipe out grey squirrels
By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 10/04/2005)

A campaign to wipe out two and a half million grey squirrels has pledged a £500 reward to the person who kills the most.

The move, criticised by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals as being in bad taste, is the brainchild of the Ounce of Fives group.

The organisation wants to keep the bounty running until grey squirrels are extinct in Britain and blames the prolific species - brought to Britain from North America in the late 19th century - for killing the nation's trees, songbirds and native red squirrel population.

Rod Brammer, the owner of a shooting school and an organiser of Ounce of Fives (named after the load of a shotgun cartridge, known as "fives"), said that he wanted to see the grey squirrel "wiped out".

Mr Brammer, who recently caused outrage by placing a similar bounty on magpies, said: "We were going to launch this cull next year but there has been such enthusiasm for the magpie cull that we brought it forward.

"We won't stop until the only grey squirrel left in Britain is a stuffed one in a glass case."

He said that the cull would start immediately with the reward going to the person who presented the most squirrels' tails by November.

"We will then repeat the process next year until we get the job done," he said. "If we get 150,000 this year that would be a good start."

The RSPCA, however, said: "Offering a bounty to cull grey squirrels is in bad taste and increases the chances of wounding without killing.

"Culling a grey squirrel requires skill and experience. It's inadvisable for ordinary members of the public to attempt to kill them because of the risk of causing unnecessary suffering. It is much more advisable that any lethal control of greys is left to a competent professional."

Mr Brammer, however, is winning support for the campaign. He has secured financial backing from David Hunt, the director of a forestry management company based in Berkshire.

Mr Hunt said that he volunteered the funds because grey squirrels cost landowners thousands of pounds each year.

"They go for trees with thin bark, such as beech, sycamore and, to an extent, ash and oak. They bite at the bark to get the sweet cambium layer underneath," he said.

Mr Brammer said that squirrels were more devastating to songbirds, whose eggs and fledglings they eat, than magpies. "They are as bad, but there are more of them," he said.

Grey squirrels are also blamed for the decline of the red squirrel population. The smaller reds are outnumbered by 15 to one having been driven out by the greys which are better able to compete for food. Greys are also believed to pass on the virulent disease squirrel pox to the reds.

Mr Brammer said that the cull was essential because the Government had refused to tackle the issue. "Margaret Beckett [Secretary of State for the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs] and her attack poodle Ben Bradshaw [minister for nature conservation and fisheries] will not put forward anything about a species cull in case it offends their urban voters."

A spokesman for the Forestry Commission said that it would kill grey squirrels when it thought it was necessary although other methods, such as encouraging them to eat contraceptive hormones, had been tried.

He said: "We spent quite a lot of money trying to find humane ways to control them, such as giving them immuno-contraceptives to sterilise them without killing them but it did not prove to be effective."

Organisations including the European Squirrel Initiative, Songbird Survival and the Royal Forestry Society, have called for a cull of greys, and Ounce of Five campaigners are confident that they will win mass support.

Julie Spencer, the editor of the magazine Country Illustrated, said: "Getting rid of them entirely is a damn good idea. They are an alien invader and extremely damaging." Mr Hunt, whose staff regularly cull grey squirrels on the land that his company manages, offers advice to those trying to collect the bounty. "We use three methods of killing grey squirrels - shooting, trapping and poisoning. Poisoning, which is done with a warfarin-based poison, is the most effective. It builds up in the squirrels' bodies and then causes them to haemorrhage to death."

He added that, when trapping squirrels, people should despatch the rodents by luring them from the trap into a sack before wringing their necks. "They are attracted to the darkness of the sack and will run into it. Then you just reach in and break the neck."

The leader so far in the contest to kill the most magpies is a gamekeeper from Bedford who has a total of 466. The estimated running total nationally of magpies killed is about 12,000. The winner will be announced in July at the CLA Game Fair.
 

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SURELY there MUST be laws against moronic idiots like these being able to merrily blast away at any species which THEY decide is vermin? I can't understand HOW they get away with it!!!
And what happens when they've eradicated magpies,grey squirrels,harriers and other raptors/predators from the UK....what will they start on next?

They're nothing but a bunch of bloody gun-toting yobbos!!!

GILL
 
Well i think it's legal to shoot both magpies and grey squirrels (?), obviously illegal to shoot many other species however. I think the idea that these schemes will ever eradicate either species (and of course eradication of magpies is not something we should be striving for anyway) is an absolute fantasy. Also not sure whether this sort of untargeted control will carry any sort of benefits for native wildlife (whilst acknowledging that the countryside probably would be in better shape without the squirrels at least). Basically seems to be a wheeze so people don't have to feel guilty when they're enjoying blasting living creatures out of existence.
james
 
CornishExile said:
From The Telegraph - note the endorsement by the apparently still credible Songbird Survival;
Not according to google. You might like to enter 'ecological claptrap' into google.com and press "I'm feeling lucky"
 
Gill Osborne said:
SURELY there MUST be laws against moronic idiots like these being able to merrily blast away at any species which THEY decide is vermin? I can't understand HOW they get away with it!!!
And what happens when they've eradicated magpies,grey squirrels,harriers and other raptors/predators from the UK....what will they start on next?

They're nothing but a bunch of bloody gun-toting yobbos!!!

GILL

Hi Gill,

Hunters have shot Grey Squirrels for many years, it isn't something new. Shoots often have 'squirrel shoots' at the end of the pheasant shooting season to try and cut numbers down, they use long, collapsable poles to poke the dreys out. I do agree that campaigns such as the one proposed are in bad taste - I don't have a problem with killing Greys, but don't turn it into some sort of competition. I don't think it's feasable to completely erradicate Greys - too many live in places where people would object to them being killed. Personally, in the pockets of our countryside where Reds still survive I would concentrate on exterminating Greys in the surrounding area, try and increase Red-friendly habitat in these areas and hope that the Reds would spread. I posted this on BirdForums a year or two ago, you might find it interesting Gill:

"An interesting programme on grey squirrels in Italy on 'Wild Europe', Radio 4, last night. Apparently there is very little inter-reaction between them and the native Reds (probably the same in the UK IMO), but the Reds lose out in poor seed/nut seasons. The Greys, partly because they spend more time in the ground, find many of the Red's stashes of nuts (a roughly 50/50 split between the squirrel's remembering where they left them and scent). The Reds - particularly the females - need the extra food to make sure they reach the breeding season in good condition. But a poor autumn harvest plus the loss of food to the Greys mean that the Reds only have one litter instead of (in Italy) two. Therefore, the Greys increase whilst the numbers of Reds falls.

In the mid Nineties it was realised that if something wasn't done soon the Greys would have gained a foothold on the woods around the foothills of the Alps and from there spread into central europe. In 1996 The National Wildlife Institute (NWI) initiated a programme of irradication. However, some radical animal rights groups strongly opposed the project, organising small demonstrations at a local level. Then, in June 1997, they took the NWI to court and managed to halt the project. The case was closed only in July 2000, with the full acquittal of the NWI. The three-year legal struggle caused the failure of the entire campaign. As a result of the suspension of all action, the grey squirrel has now reached the forests of the Alps and eradication is no longer considered feasible. Expansion into a large part of Eurasia, and subsequent decline of the red squirrel, is the likeliest scenario.

What an appauling, misguided decision the AR groups made - one that may lead in time to the loss of Red Squirrel from huge parts of its natural range".

saluki
 
walwyn said:
Not according to google. You might like to enter 'ecological claptrap' into google.com and press "I'm feeling lucky"

Sorry Walwyn, hope you weren't under the impression that I think SS are credible - my other postings on previous SS threads ought to make abundantly clear my feelings about the unsound piffle they spout.

Anyway, back to the squirrels. I tend towards the view that they fall into the same category as rabbits (an introduced non-native mammel, that happens to be edible), and given half a chance and the time to be bothered to make the effort I'm by no means adverse to shooting a couple for the pot. Hugh-Fearnley Whittingstall famously cooked them, to the dismay of (I think) the Daily Mail. Something along the lines of "Top TV Chef Cooks Tufty!". To be fair, it's actually not bad though if you try it. Rather like rabbit I think. The only worthwhile bit is the haunch meat; older ones tend to be a bit tough. For anyone who's interested, the following works well:

Squirrel pie.

Five squirrels, skinned, cleaned and jointed.
about ten rashers of streaky bacon
a sprinkling of plain flour
½oz olive oil or butter
2 onions
3 carrots
1 parsnip
4 sticks celery
big glass of red wine
teaspoon of marjoram
½ teaspoon of ground nutmeg
black pepper to taste
salt if desired
pinch of sage and thyme

Enough short pastry to make a piecrust cover over a pie dish

Method.
Chop vegetables.
Cut bacon into small pieces
Heat butter or olive oil in a flat open pan.
Roll squirrel pieces in flour.
Add floured pieces, bacon and chopped onions to hot fat
Fry until juices stop coming from pieces, stirring from time to time.

When the meat is cooked (see above) remove it and the onions and place
in pie dish
Add the rest of the vegetables
Now add the surplus flour to the fat in the pan and make a roux using
the red wine and any stock or vegetable stock you have to thin it to the
consistency of white sauce. Add herbs and spices and stir in.

Add the gravy to the contents of your pie dish and cover with pastry.

Cook in oven until pastry is golden-brown.


Anyway, I have a feeling that there's an agenda behind this squirrel bounty - call me a cynical conspiracy-theorist, but the mention of Songbird Survival in the same article sets my alarm bells ringing; coincidence? Nah, I'd say not. Their website specifically highlights four predators that target the deliberately tweely-monikered songbirds - cats, squirrels, magpies and (of course) sparrowhawks. Ring any bells with anyone for recent stories in the media? Cat culls? Magpie bounties? Coincidence?

I don't suppose there's a Blofeld-like character ("so we meet again, Mr Nutkin!") behind these stories, but there's certainly an agenda being pushed by certain people.
 
CornishExile said:
Sorry Walwyn, hope you weren't under the impression that I think SS are credible - my other postings on previous SS threads ought to make abundantly clear my feelings about the unsound piffle they spout.
I never doubted your opinion on the matter - the google thing was just for information/entertainment (actually just entering 'claptrap' on google.co.uk and "I'm feeling lucky" will work a treat too).
 
Apologies Saluki....I probably came across wrongly! Obviously struggling to find the right words *having a dizzy brunette moment LOL*

I've got no problem with folk culling things but when they make it into a competition, that's when I get annoyed! :C
If something has to be culled then let proper marksmen, or whoever, get on with it quietly and efficiently...just don't make it into some sort of GAME for these idiots! :C

GILL
 
I read an article yesterday which stated that the Grey's are carrying a virus which is picked up by Red Squirrels and proves fatal to the latter.

Will give the Squirrel pie a miss,methinks!!!!
 
Hi Christine. You've only got to worry about the parapox virus if you're a red squirrel, otherwise you can do your bit for the environment and get stuck into a large helping of (Grey) squirrel pie and gravy with mashed spuds, swede, carrots, green beans and broccoli. (Never had it myself, but given the chance I certainly would give it a try. They are a close relative of rabbit and that's the best meat known to man). Personally I would go for short pastry for the pie crust.

Seriously though, living in what was one of the last strongholds of red squirrels in England I am concerned that the reds of Northumberland are in serious danger. Until recently there were no greys. Two years ago I saw them on the south bank of the Tyne. They have now crossed the river. Greys were also to be found being fed by tourists in Prince's Street Gardens in Edinburgh. These have now moved south across the border and I am reliably informed that greys have been seen in Hulne Park at Alnwick.

The squeeze is on for Northumberland's red squirrels and I pray that they can survive the threat from the grey squirrels and their supporters.

As a reminder of what a British squirrel should look like, I am attaching a couple of photos that I took in a Northumberland wood a week ago.
 

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Hiya Walwyn

where you been?

thanks for the ecological claptrap bit - made me chuckle

sounds like a bit of a character, Mr Hunt - the thumbless wonder! Mr Brammer too...

at least we know why the birds are disappearing...... it's those bloody squirrels.

DOH!

Tim
 
Somebody mention moronic idiots? Well apart from my neighbours who gave their kids a lamb for Easter 2 years and still have it in a tiny pen that it never leaves in the back yard. Along with a pony that also never leaves the pen, and a black lab that the 7 year old kid wanted because younger kid got the pony. Did I mention that dog rarely leaves the outside pen either, cant have it in the house because the kid........wait for it ...... is alergic to dogs. Did I also mention that they had a cat that got run over in front of the two kids and a goat that they were given that they never fed just allowed it eat the vegetation in the yard. When it couldn't get up they still didn't ask for advice or call a vet. It too died.

Anyway this is not my neighbour but for total stupidity look here.

Save Toby.

And ANYONE who donates to this moron should be sterilised immediately for polluting the gene pool.
 

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Whilst I feel it is wrong that an individual should try to turn killing grey squirrels in to a competition it makes me very sad these days to go in to most woodlands and see the increasing number of grey squirrels, they have become an infestation. Our birds face enough difficulties already and it amazes me how any birds nesting in these woods ever raise any young to take the place of birds killed by cats etc. It is surely time that the Government, who quite happily spend millions of pounds killing Ruddy Ducks, funded a campaign to eradicate this American pest. Roger
 
Alan Seaton said:
Seriously though, living in what was one of the last strongholds of red squirrels in England I am concerned that the reds of Northumberland are in serious danger. Until recently there were no greys. Two years ago I saw them on the south bank of the Tyne. They have now crossed the river. Greys were also to be found being fed by tourists in Prince's Street Gardens in Edinburgh. These have now moved south across the border and I am reliably informed that greys have been seen in Hulne Park at Alnwick.

The squeeze is on for Northumberland's red squirrels and I pray that they can survive the threat from the grey squirrels and their supporters.

As a reminder of what a British squirrel should look like, I am attaching a couple of photos that I took in a Northumberland wood a week ago.

Nice photos Alan.

Whilst I really don't like the gung-ho attitude that underpins this unofficial squirrel cull, I do find it hard to sympathise with anyone criticising the objective of reducing their numbers. I don't remember much of an outcry when the non-native coypus were being eradicated; perhaps people feel more strongly about grey squirrels because they're 'cute'.

I don't for one moment think it would be possible to completely eradicate them, but were it to be feasible, I really wouldn't have a problem with it in principle. We're dealing with something very different to Magpies or Sparrowhawks here; they both belong in the native ecosystem - grey squirrels plainly don't. I must confess my knowledge of red squirrel biology is woefully poor - do they predate eggs or nestlings? Mind you, even if they do, I can't help but feel a bigger alien squirrel must have more of an impact.

Jon
 
There's also the potential benefit that if these people are busy blazing away at grey squirrels it means they spend less time persecuting raptors ...

Rob
 
edenwatcher said:
There's also the potential benefit that if these people are busy blazing away at grey squirrels it means they spend less time persecuting raptors ...

Rob

I hope it doesn't lead to blind shooting into nest structures in the hope of 'flushing' them - may lead to a decrease in the Honey Buzzard population (amongst others).

Andy.
 
Tim Allwood said:
Hiya Walwyn

where you been?

thanks for the ecological claptrap bit - made me chuckle
Round and about mainly on USENET, but busy with builders, cats dying, installing kitchens, getting a new release of our software out, family visits ... I don't think I've been able to get out more than 4 times this year.

RE 'ecological claptrap':

I was amazed as to how quickly I managed to get to the top of google's search engine, I think it only took about two weeks, 'claptrap' itself is sort of hovering around position 8-11 on google.com, perhaps its time for another phrase.
 
Actually, I just posted elsewhere on forums re this..
was looking for the article .. It was in our paper
a few weeks ago.. and I was disgusted really.
I dont feel it should be as a competition.

and did not like that photo on the 2nd page
taking up so much room.. surely there is other news..

Right outside here.. I have grey squirrels
and black ones.. not too many red ones..

also.. we have problem with coyotes
and Canada Geese

thing is.. we have ruined.. the environment
and many of these animals are coming into
the city areas.. sorry .. got a bit o/t here..
makes me angry...

For some.. this just gives then an excuse
to git out their gun.. and go ahead..
That is my opinion.
 
You fellers just haven't been a'thinkin'! Hire yerselves 'bout 20 or so Kentucky and Tennessee country boys, give'em an open season, and thar won't be a grey squirrel left in yer whole durn country in 6 months! (Plus, them boys'll be eatin' awful good too!) ;)
 
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