Pipit for discussion (2 Viewers)

Jane Turner said:

Tris - don't think I am having ago.. 25 years a go I thought I could do these things 9/10 times... and then I saw a lot of water pipits.... then I started getting doubts and see very few def Water pipits now.. and a lot more Rockits!

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Hi Jane

No problems, did not take it that you were having a go!
This thread has been fascinating and eduacational, which is why I have kept plugging at various comments for more detail.
I have spent another 3 hours today watching the Campfield Pipits at relatively close range. One of the birds has almost made the transition into breeding plumage, and (IMHO) there cannot be any question that it clearly is a Water Pipit (on the proviso that current understanding of ID criteria for this species can be trusted). The second bird is far less advanced, however I watched it preening several times and was able to see the bright white wedge on the 5th outermost TF!

I attempted to photograph the birds today, though doubt if the quality will be good due to light/distance etc, however if any of them are any use I will post them later.

Regards
Tristan

Mike Pennington said:

No because Rock and Water Pipits are allopatric i.e. they do not overlap in breeding range. It is very difficult to assess the species status of these allospecies (very similar species which form a superspecies and that do not have overlapping ranges) as it is impossible to test their biological separation as they do not come in to contact in the breeding season.

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Hi Mike

This was as I had thought (thought I remembered reading about this groups taxonomic status), thanks for the clarification though!

Regards
Tristan

I think that the only problem with the accepted Water Pipit critera is an underestimate of just how many of the features are shown by some littoralis.

The days of... "Its got a big super, big wnig bars and white-outers therefore its a Wapit" are long gone.

Glad you saw the T5 wedge though... I have only seen tiny ones or off white ones on Rockits!

Hi

I was wondering if any members from Sweden can clarify whether the Swedish Rarities Commitee believe that spinoletta can be inseperable from littoralis in breeding plumage. This is apparently based on the occurence of several breeding plumaged littoralis showing a contrasting brown mantle and rump. If this is true is there any evidence avaliable to back this up?

Regards
Tristan

My understanding now is that a proven Littoralis seen this spring in this country had white wedge in T5!! This is a disaster from the point of view of properly identifying these, and I wonder about the tenure of the split.

I attach a couple of photo's, no tricks, of a bird that at the time was supposedly a Water pipit. It was taken at Blithfield Res in Staffs on 29th Feb 04. Poor pics, I know, but it was distant.

To me, it still looks quite safe as Water (didn't hear it call, but feel that is irrelevant in my case), though I can't exactly say why any more!!!

Any comments gratefully received

GV

The plainess of the mantle is a good start.. and the head shape looks ok.