New Leica September 4 2017 (3 Viewers)

Rathaus · Sep 7, 2017

Renze de Vries said:
With respect to the issue of splash resistance vs guaranteed waterproof, nitrogen no or nitrogen yes, has anyone on this forum ever heard of fogged-up Leitz Trinovids, be it from own experience or information from friends, relatives or strangers?

Renze

Certainly, none of my ancient trinovids (5+ decades old) have ever fogged up. Also, there is no sign of mold on any of their glass surfaces. I'm certain they'd soon leak if I dropped them in a bath or deep bucket of water etc, but that's not really something I'd go out of my way to do.

We had over half a metre of rain (22inches) in 24 hours in March this year. (London gets that amount in one full year)
Leaking could occur in this situation too, but visibility was only a few feet.

GLOBETROTTER · Sep 7, 2017

Is very estrange to see the limited FOV on the new 10x40 and 8x40 using uppendahl prims why not 122m FOV on the 10x40 like the originals ?

The successor the 10x40 trinovid with schmidt-pechan has 110m FOV like the new models.

I suspect that only the 7X35 Have Uppendahl prims.

Gijs van Ginkel · Sep 7, 2017

Globetrotter, post 142,
It seems very unlikely to me, that the 8x40 and 10x40 Trinovids would not have Uppendahl prisms, moreover the field of view is for the most part determined by the eyepiece construction.
Gijs van Ginkel

Holger Merlitz · Sep 7, 2017

GLOBETROTTER said:
Is very estrange to see the limited FOV on the new 10x40 and 8x40 using uppendahl prims why not 122m FOV on the 10x40 like the originals ?

The successor the 10x40 trinovid with schmidt-pechan has 110m FOV like the new models.

I suspect that only the 7X35 Have Uppendahl prims.

The early version of the 10x40 was made between 1963 and 1975 and had 122m/1000m, but no 'B' eyepieces. The second version, from 1974 to 1990, was the 10x40 B with reduced field of 110m/1000m. Both versions had Uppendahl prisms.

Cheers,
Holger

GLOBETROTTER · Sep 7, 2017

Holger Merlitz said:
The early version of the 10x40 was made between 1963 and 1975 and had 122m/1000m, but no 'B' eyepieces. The second version, from 1974 to 1990, was the 10x40 B with reduced field of 110m/1000m. Both versions had Uppendahl prisms.

Cheers,
Holger

I dint know, thanks for the info :t:

Renze de Vries · Sep 7, 2017

A few observations concerning differences between all kinds of Trinovids and the latest edition, the Leica Trinovid Classic.

1. Leica, why not use 'Classic' for your new Trinovid line? At least it will avoid confusion with the Trinovid HD.

2. In Leica's notes to the introduction of the Trinovid Classic, reference is made to the original Trinovid design of 1958. The suggestion here is that the Classic is a continuation of that design. However, this is not correct. The 1958 Trinovid was optically, mechanically and cosmetically completely different. And notoriously shortlived. The story is that it was so impossibly expensive to make that production was stopped only after a few months. In 1962/63 a whole new design was put to the market, and held its own, almost unchanged, for some 25 years. Now this is of course the Leitz Trinovid series where the Trinovid Classic originates from.

3. The Classic makes use of the body of the Leitz Trinovid almost unchanged. However, a small difference is to be observed in the upper lid of the prism housing, which is thicker and possibly more robust than the original.

4. Of more importance, probably, is the difference in comparison to the Leitz with respect to the construction of the ocular assembly (eye piece) and the eye cup. Note that all pictures supplied by Leica thus far show the binoculars with their eye cups down. In this way they look very much like the old Leitz. That is to say, they look like Leitz Trinovids with their eye cups up! How the Classics will look with their eye cups up as well, we dont know, not yet.

5. And it's very well possible the differences are not limited to the binocular's appearance. If I'm not mistaken the eye lens of the Classic sits higher in the ocular assembly (or the ocular assembly higher in the housing) than in the Leitz. Compare the Leica 10x40 Classic (upper picture) to the Leitz 10x40. What do you think? Would this be of consequence to the optics? And if so, in what way?

Renze

Holger Merlitz · Sep 7, 2017

Renze de Vries said:
A few observations concerning differences between all kinds of Trinovids and the latest edition, the Leica Trinovid Classic.

1. Leica, why not use 'Classic' for your new Trinovid line? At least it will avoid confusion with the Trinovid HD.

2. In Leica's notes to the introduction of the Trinovid Classic, reference is made to the original Trinovid design of 1958. The suggestion here is that the Classic is a continuation of that design. However, this is not correct. The 1958 Trinovid was optically, mechanically and cosmetically completely different. And notoriously shortlived. The story is that it was so impossibly expensive to make that production was stopped only after a few months. In 1962/63 a whole new design was put to the market, and held its own, almost unchanged, for some 25 years. Now this is of course the Leitz Trinovid series where the Trinovid Classic originates from.

3. The Classic makes use of the body of the Leitz Trinovid almost unchanged. However, a small difference is to be observed in the upper lid of the prism housing, which is thicker and possibly more robust than the original.

4. Of more importance, probably, is the difference in comparison to the Leitz with respect to the construction of the ocular assembly (eye piece) and the eye cup. Note that all pictures supplied by Leica thus far show the binoculars with their eye cups down. In this way they look very much like the old Leitz. That is to say, they look like Leitz Trinovids with their eye cups up! How the Classics will look with their eye cups up as well, we dont know, not yet.

5. And it's very well possible the differences are not limited to the binocular's appearance. If I'm not mistaken the eye lens of the Classic sits higher in the ocular assembly (or the ocular assembly higher in the housing) than in the Leitz. Compare the Leica 10x40 Classic (upper picture) to the Leitz 10x40. What do you think? Would this be of consequence to the optics? And if so, in what way?

Renze

I have noticed that the classic 7x35B was quoted to have a diopter range of +/- 3dpt, whereas the new one has +/- 4dpt. Since these settings occur inside the eyepieces, the latter version may have implemented a somewhat longer travel for their floating lenses, which might explain those differences in the body dimension. That is pure speculation, though.

Cheers,
Holger

Hermann · Sep 7, 2017

Renze de Vries said:
With respect to the issue of splash resistance vs guaranteed waterproof, nitrogen no or nitrogen yes, has anyone on this forum ever heard of fogged-up Leitz Trinovids, be it from own experience or information from friends, relatives or strangers?

Yes, twice. In the field, in *really* bad weather in North Norfolk, an 8x40 and a 10x40. That was at a time when almost al the roofs actually used by birders where either Zeiss Dialyts or or Leitz Trinovids, in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Hermann

Loud Green Man · Sep 7, 2017

So if I’m reading this correctly the justification for purchase is simply their retro and aesthetic appeal? Something of such importance you are happy to forgo the best of current glass, coatings and water tightness?

To my untutored or Leica-struck eye they look no more than a pleasing set of opera bins that would need to be very comfortable with their own company as the only interaction between now and the next production of Nixon In China would be with my long-suffering tuxedo.

LGM
:smoke:

ceasar · Sep 7, 2017

To Renze, (post 137) and Gijs (Post 138)

Thank you for your above comments and clarifications on the history and construction of the original Leitz 7x35, 8x40 and 10x40 Trinovids!:t:

Bob

ceasar · Sep 7, 2017

Renze de Vries said:
With respect to the issue of splash resistance vs guaranteed waterproof, nitrogen no or nitrogen yes, has anyone on this forum ever heard of fogged-up Leitz Trinovids, be it from own experience or information from friends, relatives or strangers?

Renze

Renze,

I received Bill Cook's new book on "Binoculars Fallacy & Fact " yesterday and he has a short chapter at pp 41-42 in it titled: "A Waterproof Binocular? I really don't need one."

It is too long to summarize here but I can touch on some highlights in it.

I will quote this short paragraph in full:

"Defying popular wisdom, most moisture damage doesn't come from the instrument being splashed on, rained on or even submerged. It comes from periods of cooling temperatures in a moisture rich environment such as one might experience when running back into the house after a lengthy view of the Pleiades or watching in awe as that huge, steam puffing buck taunts you to get back in the Jeep and follow."

Following this he gives a list of the Japanese Industrial Standards: JIS Class 0 through JIS Class 8. The first one means no protection at all. The last one is that the device will remain dry during continuous immersion in water.

JIS Class 4: is "Fully protected against splashing water."

As far a the use of Nitrogen goes he says that it isn't used to pressurize the instrument but, as an inert gas, it is used to provide a negative growth environment against fungus.

Bill's book is interesting reading throughout and I highly recommend it.

Bob

Gijs van Ginkel · Sep 7, 2017

I found some more information about the original Trinovids. The first 7x35's from 1964 were numbered 647651.
In 1976 the production of the binoculars moved from Germany to Portugal. The final production line from 1988 starts with production number 981501. From some models of the Trinovids dummies were made for display in shops (one can be seen in House of Outdoor & Optics in The Netherlands). Some "cutaways"were also produced to show the internal mechanisms for display at exhibitions etc. According to the source of information I found, delivery dates may be up to one year from the production date; that would mean, that the 7x35 also ran into 1989.
Three Trinovid series were made.
The first one was designed and developed by a team led by Kurt Jensen and two models were built an 8x40 and a 7x42. The patent for this binocular was filed in 1953. The field of view in these binoculars was very wide: the 7x42 had a field of 170m/1000m and the 8x40 of 160m/1000m. This Trinovid series lived very short, it had a roof prism and two mirrors.Very few examples of this first series exist; probably between 200-1000 of this series were produced before the series was stopped.
The second Trinovid series was introduced in 1963 at the Photokina: 6x24, 8x32 and 10x40. The binoculars were extremly small and light and they had internal focussing. In May 1965 the 7x35 B was released and later in that same year the 8x40B. In 1983 the 7x35B's were also available with green rubber armoring. Officially the 7x35 range was discontinued in 1984, but because of continuous demand production took place until 1988.
This information was obtained from a review written by Gary Hawkins in 2007.
Gijs van Ginkel

NDhunter · Sep 7, 2017

Loud Green Man said:
So if I’m reading this correctly the justification for purchase is simply their retro and aesthetic appeal? Something of such importance you are happy to forgo the best of current glass, coatings and water tightness?

To my untutored or Leica-struck eye they look no more than a pleasing set of opera bins that would need to be very comfortable with their own company as the only interaction between now and the next production of Nixon In China would be with my long-suffering tuxedo.

LGM
:smoke:

Loud:

By all means pass on this one. Save us your drama.

Jerry

Troubador · Sep 7, 2017

Renze de Vries said:
With respect to the issue of splash resistance vs guaranteed waterproof, nitrogen no or nitrogen yes, has anyone on this forum ever heard of fogged-up Leitz Trinovids, be it from own experience or information from friends, relatives or strangers?

Renze

My wife's 1976 Leitz 8x40Bs (black spot logo) have endured hours and hours of downpours of rain in Scotland and have never fogged or leaked.

Lee

A2GG · Sep 7, 2017

Loud Green Man said:
So if I’m reading this correctly the justification for purchase is simply their retro and aesthetic appeal? Something of such importance you are happy to forgo the best of current glass, coatings and water tightness?

To my untutored or Leica-struck eye they look no more than a pleasing set of opera bins that would need to be very comfortable with their own company as the only interaction between now and the next production of Nixon In China would be with my long-suffering tuxedo.

LGM
:smoke:

The 'justification' for purchase is a personal decision per individual.

Last weekend I had a quick chat with a man who was using an old 20+ yr old rubber armored Zeiss. Looked in some ways similar to the classic Trinovid. No doubt he still uses it for the light weight, reliability and still competent optics and mechanics.

Every so often I see birders still using their the old classic Trinovids. Obviously, they still help people view nature and hold up well.

Lots of people before us have been birding with non-waterproof bins for a long time and some still do.

Also, the new classic Trinovids have updated glass and coatings...they are just using the old Uppendahl prisms, not the same lenses used decades ago.

I think the view on these new Trinovids should be very good and certainly very usable for birding/nature observation.

Troubador · Sep 7, 2017

Loud Green Man said:
So if I’m reading this correctly the justification for purchase is simply their retro and aesthetic appeal? Something of such importance you are happy to forgo the best of current glass, coatings and water tightness?

To my untutored or Leica-struck eye they look no more than a pleasing set of opera bins that would need to be very comfortable with their own company as the only interaction between now and the next production of Nixon In China would be with my long-suffering tuxedo.

LGM
:smoke:

These, and Zeiss's Dialyts, were land-mark binos and will probably be bought by folks who have fond memories of the pleasure they gave for years. They will have other binos and so will not forgo anything. My wife still has her 1976 Trinovids and will never part with them, but they are retired now and she uses an Ultravid today with a Trinovid HD as back-up.

Lee

Renze de Vries · Sep 7, 2017

Gijs van Ginkel said:
I found some more information about the original Trinovids. The first 7x35's from 1964 were numbered 647651.
In 1976 the production of the binoculars moved from Germany to Portugal. The final production line from 1988 starts with production number 981501. From some models of the Trinovids dummies were made for display in shops (one can be seen in House of Outdoor & Optics in The Netherlands). Some "cutaways"were also produced to show the internal mechanisms for display at exhibitions etc. According to the source of information I found, delivery dates may be up to one year from the production date; that would mean, that the 7x35 also ran into 1989.
Three Trinovid series were made.
The first one was designed and developed by a team led by Kurt Jensen and two models were built an 8x40 and a 7x42. The patent for this binocular was filed in 1953. The field of view in these binoculars was very wide: the 7x42 had a field of 170m/1000m and the 8x40 of 160m/1000m. This Trinovid series lived very short, it had a roof prism and two mirrors.Very few examples of this first series exist; probably between 200-1000 of this series were produced before the series was stopped.
The second Trinovid series was introduced in 1963 at the Photokina: 6x24, 8x32 and 10x40. The binoculars were extremly small and light and they had internal focussing. In May 1965 the 7x35 B was released and later in that same year the 8x40B. In 1983 the 7x35B's were also available with green rubber armoring. Officially the 7x35 range was discontinued in 1984, but because of continuous demand production took place until 1988.
This information was obtained from a review written by Gary Hawkins in 2007.
Gijs van Ginkel

To which I can only add that the first production series of the 7x35 (about 6000 pieces) were non-B's. That is, they were designated as such, without the B. I don't know if this was an error or if the binoculars initially had short eye relief indeed.

Renze

Binastro · Sep 7, 2017

Hi Renze.
Are Imperial units tape measures used in the Netherlands?

BruceH · Sep 7, 2017

BruceH said:
What makes this binocular a classic and a stand out in its day?

Thanks.

Holger Merlitz said:
It was among the first civilian binoculars with B-oculars, and it featured an internal focusing mechanism (realized through a floating group of lenses inside the eyepiece). The Leitz Trinovid series was also extremely light weight by today's standards, yet with wide fields of view.

To me, the best of the lot was the 7x35 B, an amazing binocular with a perfect ease of view.

Cheers,
Holger

Would someone please explain what is meant by a "B-ocular" and any associated advantages and disadvantages.

Thanks.

Vespobuteo · Sep 7, 2017

BruceH said:
Would someone please explain what is meant by a "B-ocular" and any associated advantages and disadvantages.

Thanks.

In German: rillen = Spectacles = Eye glasses

(Eye glass friendly oculars)

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