Devon pigeon fancier in Peregrine cull call (1 Viewer)

[QUOTE
I am not sure if this is true, but we have been told that if we catch these birds and send them in to the beach for return to their owners, they end up having their necks wrung, because the owners do not wish to keep birds that have got themselves thoroughly lost :C[/QUOTE]

They haven't got much going for them really, have they?

kawwauser said:

one of the things pigeon fanciers never talk about is that their so called hobby has removed the natural insticts the pigeon should have to predators,how many woodpidgeons get taken by peregrines?this particular pigeon would have walked into the mouth of a fox if it looked like their was food there, and why?all because it was trained that way

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I'm sure they do take Woodpigeons, I've seen it happen more than once but to be fair,thinking habitat wise wouldnt Feral Pigeon/Rock dove be more naturally part of a Peregrines diet than Woodpigeons anayway.
Of course being captive birds they arent very wary of predators but i dont suppose that makes it any easier for the people losing their birds, the same could be said of all captive animals people keep but that doesnt mean they wouldnt be upset if they got killed by a predator they werent as wary of as they would be in the wild.

Also check http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/ for more news on Peregrines being persecuted some more. Discussion around "pigeon ticklers" and their ill informed and ill educated arguements there.

We have had two in the past few months sat on the office window sills - we read the rings, looked on line and reunited them. However, a pigeon racer near me (who we first contacted) confirmed that they would be destroyed as of little use if they have to "go to the trouble of going out rounding them up...."

I used to know a pidgeon racer around here (stoke-on-trent) who was very good at his hobby, he won many cups. He kept maticulous records and any birds which were not in the top three or four he "necked" saying he was not going to spend good money on corn!

James Thomas said:

Why do they always assume their birds have been taken by peregrines and aren't just crap at finding their way home? We used to have pigeons shot out of chemical plants I worked in and they were often 'lost' racing pigeons.

Personally I'd probably start to keep pigeons if I had peregrines on the doorstep.

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I have been a pigeon fancier(racer) for around 10 years and ive also been breeding birds of prey (harris hawks) for the last 20 years, I am also a bird watcher/nature lover with a passion for Raptors.

I see this from both sides.

Pigeon racing may be meaningless to most but some of these fanciers put a lot of money in to their birds... £1000s on one bird in the hope that they can breed,race and win the big prizes.. new cars, Tv sets and so on.
Their pigeons are valuable livestock to them and i can understand them being upset about having birds taken by birds of prey, I have said many times to fanciers "you have to allow for losses to BOP" but they say they do and have done for many years but the peregrine and sparrowhawk population of today is so large (un-naturaly in their eyes) thats their loses can be large.
I think more pigeons are lost to Spars than peregrines, like any other predator if they find an easy food supply they just keep coming back for more and I have fist hand knowledge of a local fancier that has had 4 birds taken off his loft in a two week period... it must be disheartening for the fancier knowing he has no way of protecting his property/livestock.
I know what would happen if it was a fox taking a farmers lambs!

I love birds of prey and of them all the sparrowhawk is my favorite, but i believe they are to abundant at this moment in time, over protected?...maybe !
The peregrine in my eyes with the protection it has is now so abundant that it is nesting in places that most of us would not regard as it's natural habitat.
nesting in city centres on churches, office blocks, factory towers and lots more even stranger places....over protected? maybe !
Within faconry over the past ten years or so there has been a push to allow falconers to resume the "wild take" of both spars and pere's... i know what you may say NO WAY and in some ways i agree but there will come a point of saturation and i believe its not that far off, allowing a wild take to help control numbers is better than a cull in my eyes.
I didnt see this guy your talking about on tv and i wont vouch for all his comments, but try and look at it from both sides... he has a passion...you have a passion ! how would you/we feel if something was destroying your/our passion?
Just to answer the question "Why do they always assume their birds have been taken by peregrines " you cant know for sure until the ring has been found at the peregrine nest site and at some sites hundreds of rings have been found, as for spars that is an easier calculation because large numbers take pigeons off their loft as well asthe ring count at nests.
Just my point of view !
Jon

kawwauser said:

i come across exhausted racing pigeons now and again on my many walks,the latest was just last week 28/6,this bird was resting on a very public walking path,walkers were concerend about it ,dog walkers walking past with dogs didn,t even budge it,
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d91/kawwauser/rcpig1.jpg


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d91/kawwauser/rcpig2.jpg
these pics were taken at auchmithie scotland, 40 mins later the bird was on its feet and virtually walking under the feet of passerbys,even the one,s with dogs,one of the things pigeon fanciers never talk about is that their so called hobby has removed the natural insticts the pigeon should have to predators,how many woodpidgeons get taken by peregrines?this particular pigeon would have walked into the mouth of a fox if it looked like their was food there, and why?all because it was trained that way

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Yes racing pigeons are tame-ish but only around people and things that they have no inbuilt fear of, ive seen a team of racers scatter when they see a peregrine circling above, the same aplies to cats. dogs are not a normal threat to them so they have no real fear.
Jon

spuggyhawk said:

I love birds of prey and of them all the sparrowhawk is my favorite, but i believe they are to abundant at this moment in time, over protected?...maybe !
The peregrine in my eyes with the protection it has is now so abundant that it is nesting in places that most of us would not regard as it's natural habitat.
nesting in city centres on churches, office blocks, factory towers and lots more even stranger places....over protected? maybe !

Jon

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Please advise what you mean by over protected.

All that is happening to Sparrowhawk and Peregrine populations is that they are returning to the level that their food supply will allow after a population crash mostly caused by DDT.

Yes, you can argue that these levels are perhaps artificially high. Peregrines exploiting the abudance of feral pigeon in towns and cities; Sparrowhawks taking advantage of unnatural concentrations of small birds because of bird tables and both taking racing pigeons along the way.

So, if you are looking for a solution remove the food source, get rid of the feral pigeons and stop people feeding birds. You may have some luck with the pigeons.

winkle said:

Please advise what you mean by over protected.

All that is happening to Sparrowhawk and Peregrine populations is that they are returning to the level that their food supply will allow after a population crash mostly caused by DDT.

Yes, you can argue that these levels are perhaps artificially high. Peregrines exploiting the abudance of feral pigeon in towns and cities; Sparrowhawks taking advantage of unnatural concentrations of small birds because of bird tables and both taking racing pigeons along the way.

So, if you are looking for a solution remove the food source, get rid of the feral pigeons and stop people feeding birds. You may have some luck with the pigeons.

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True ! maybe "over protected" is the wrong phrase, it has been suggested that a similar system that is used on foxes in some parts of Wales.
The system being that if one predator (fox/hawk) becomes a nusiance and constantly returns to a flock of lambs/pigeon loft then it should be allowed to be removed... with foxes it is shot. this means the nusiance is removed without having to take vengence on all foxes/hawks.
With foxes it works pretty well, yes another fox may move in to the vacated teritory but not all foxes predate on lambs and the like... i'm not so sure it would be a long term solution with Spars though.... so there is no easy answer.

Removing the food source as you suggest would and does work with regard to feral pigeons but removing songbirds and pigeon lofts aint going to happen.

All i'm trying to do is try and get people to look at it from a pigeon fanciers view point and to try and see that its not as clear cut as some people seem to think, it is in our nature (mans) to protect his property and livestock from whatever threat there is ... be it natural or man made and who are we to say he has no right to gripe that he has lost his pigeons to hawks or for him to feel that he and is property are being over looked... would you want to protect your property from constant assault?

There is no easy answer and there are two points of view neither of these points should just be poo poo'd because its not mine or your point of view.

Jon

spuggyhawk said:

True ! maybe "over protected" is the wrong phrase, it has been suggested that a similar system that is used on foxes in some parts of Wales.
The system being that if one predator (fox/hawk) becomes a nusiance and constantly returns to a flock of lambs/pigeon loft then it should be allowed to be removed... with foxes it is shot. this means the nusiance is removed without having to take vengence on all foxes/hawks.
With foxes it works pretty well, yes another fox may move in to the vacated teritory but not all foxes predate on lambs and the like... i'm not so sure it would be a long term solution with Spars though.... so there is no easy answer.

Removing the food source as you suggest would and does work with regard to feral pigeons but removing songbirds and pigeon lofts aint going to happen.

All i'm trying to do is try and get people to look at it from a pigeon fanciers view point and to try and see that its not as clear cut as some people seem to think, it is in our nature (mans) to protect his property and livestock from whatever threat there is ... be it natural or man made and who are we to say he has no right to gripe that he has lost his pigeons to hawks or for him to feel that he and is property are being over looked... would you want to protect your property from constant assault?

There is no easy answer and there are two points of view neither of these points should just be poo poo'd because its not mine or your point of view.

Jon

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Yes, but if I want to protect my property, I don't leave it out in the street. The problem is pigeon fanciers want to let their birds out where they join the food chain.

nickderry said:

Yes, but if I want to protect my property, I don't leave it out in the street.

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Most people leave their cars in the street and are understandable upset and annoyed if it gets stolen even though they are aware of the risk they were taking.

nickderry said:

Yes, but if I want to protect my property, I don't leave it out in the street. The problem is pigeon fanciers want to let their birds out where they join the food chain.

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The pigeon fanciers that complain the most about hawks are the ones that race their birds, these fanciers loose their birds 1hr am and 1 hr pm for exersise...they are not just left out in the street ! the only other time they are loose is when racing.

Its a good job hawks dont take children :eek!:

Jon

spuggyhawk said:

Its a good job hawks dont take children :eek!:

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Don't you ever read the Daily Mail?

Apodemus said:

Don't you ever read the Daily Mail?

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I try not to:smoke: