Major problem with my laptop (1 Viewer)

I'm currently having a major issue with my Toshiba laptop that even a reformat doesn't appear to have fixed, but I'll cut to the chase and describe what has happened.

Two or three nights ago, I had loaded up an internet game as usual, and I clicked to start the game. The instant I did this, the screen went black, and my laptop did what I presumed to be a restart, saying something about a "Resource Conflict." I was then greeted by a black screen with white lettering, instructing me on the different ways I could start up Windows again: Safe Mode, Safe Mode with Command Prompt, Last Good Configuration, etc. I tried each and every one of these options, only to be brought back to the same black and white startup screen. Never having met this error before, I faced the facts of having lost many loved files, including all of my recent bird photos. Reluctantly, I reformatted, wiping the hard drive clean(or, at least I presumed).

After the reformat, I downloaded my usual collection of free antispyware and antivirus programs, Mozilla Firefox, and the latest Windows updates, including Service Pack 2. All seemed to be well and back to normal, until now.

I had just booted up my laptop, and had entered my password on the login screen. Instead of going to Windows, the monitor shut off for a moment, then came back to what I've dubbed the "Black Screen of Death." I turned off the computer, then was able to get into Windows again: I was informed by a Microsoft internet page that a possible solution would be to upgrade my BIOS. I have a basic idea of what BIOS is, but upgrading? |8.|

I had originally thought that the problem was due to a hardware error, or a virus that somehow survived the reformat process. But, this BIOS thing is a new twist, one that I never saw a few days ago. I am absolutely perplexed. :brains:

Am I losing my laptop, or is there hope out there? I've grown quite attached to my baby, and would hate to lose her.

It is possible for a virus to survive a reformat, but unlikely. There are actually several levels of formatting on a hard disc, they are known as low-level format, partitioning, and high-level format. What we know as formatting the drive only performs the last of these, and leaves some small but crucial areas at the start of the drive untouched. (Think of it as being like wiping all the text area of an excercise book page, but that still leaves the margins as they were.)

However, it is quite difficult to do anything very nasty with those small remaining areas and the technique went out of fashion amongst virus writers about 10 or 12 years ago. In short, I think it is very unlikely that your problems are virus related. They sound very much like a hardware fault to me. In a laptop, this can be nasty indeed.

BIOS problems, by the way, exist mainly in the minds of people who can't figure out the real cause of a computer problem and probably have difficulty discovering their bums with both hands. Yes, there is such a thing as a faulty BIOS, but it's the sort of thing that, once it works correctly, generally goes on working forever, and is not usually damaged save by events that will also trash the rest of the system. (A hammer is a good example of such an event, surge damage from a thunderstorm another.) Your BIOS was perfectly OK for the last however many years you've had the laptop; it is practically impossible for it to suddenly fail after all this time.

You need to get a technician to look a the system at this point. (Actually, it would have been better to do that earlier, before you wiped your files - but that is water under the bridge and can't be helped now.) My feeling is that it is probably either a mainboard or a power supply fault. Pressed to take a guess, I'd say power supply, but as much in hope as anything else, as a new power supply will cost maybe E150, where a replacement motherboard will cost more than the entire system is worth.

Remember that these are merely educated guesses on the slimmest of evidence from the other side of the world, so get a competent technician to look at it in the flesh before you despair. And also, remember that no matter how bad it turns out to be, at this point there is nothing you can do to magic it back again. So you can lie awake all night worrying about it, or you can say "whatever is, is" and sleep easy. Makes no difference to the computer, so you might as well sleep easy.

Best of luck,

Tannin

Oh, excuse me, you are American not British. No matter, the advice remains the same. Especially the sleep easy bit.

You should also eliminate the possibility that you have an issue with the Video Card being on the fritz or with too little memory.

I forgot to mention that it was very windy the night my laptop first acted up, and the power kept blinking on and off: although, I don't think that in itself would have done anything, as my brother's desktop, and my stepmother's desktop as well, were both fine. Add to that the fact that I use a surge protector that is, hopefully, reliable.

Also, earlier that day, my laptop had crashed while I was defragmenting the hard drive: I should have recognized that as being out of kilter, and backed up my files while I had the chance. |8(| Oh well, too late now.

I suppose seeing a computer technician is in my best interest, my only concern being cost. If the problem is found, and the repair costs more than my laptop did, I'll end up just buying a new laptop, since that would probably be more worthwhile. I had wanted to wait on getting a new laptop until Windows Vista comes out, but that might not be the case, I guess.

In the meantime, I reckon I'm stuck using my stepmother's desktop. || At least her computer is fairly new, whilst my laptop is just over three years old.

HouseFinch said:

I forgot to mention that it was very windy the night my laptop first acted up, and the power kept blinking on and off

Click to expand...

There is a classic recipe for trouble, I'm afraid. Hearing that, I'll double my bet that it's the power supply, or failing that the main board. The fact that other systems didn't fail at the same time means nothing: surges of power take stuff out pretty much at random, and it is not at all unusual to see quite delicate components survive without a worry, and usually robust things fall over. I've seen, for example, a floppy drive (which is such old, crude technology you couldn't kill it with a hammer) and a sound card (pretty robust things, as a rule) fail in the same system that had its RAM (delicate stuff) and power supply (usually the first thing to go) survive untouched. Yes, these are exceptions, but surge damage is completely unpredicatable. Oh, and it is commonplace to have stuff damaged by a surge but keep on working for a few hours or days afterwards. The only really reliable law with surges was written by our old friend Mr Murphy: it's usually the most expensive part, or the one that you can't get spares for anymore, that fails.

You need to see a technician to find out which it is: PSU or board. (Or possibly something else entirely, of course, which would probably be good as that would be cheaper.) Yes, it will cost you a few dollars for an expert opinion, but your only other choice is to throw the thing away. Any competent techie will be able to advise you whether it is worth fixing or not - that is his job.

Don't wait for Vista. New Windows versions are always a complete can of worms when they hit the market. Let some other fool do the beta testing, and consider switching to Vista after the worst of the bugs are fixed. 2008 sounds about right. The traditional rule that system administrators use is "never buy a Microsoft product before they release Service Pack 2". It's a pretty good rule.

Faulty Laptop

Hi Housefinch,

Tannin has some good advice here but I'd like to try and help further.

What model or laptop is it ?

Most laptops power supply units are now integrated to motherboard (some were seperate PCBs).

Cost may ot be as much as you think, but can be tricky to repair.

Have you tried removing main battery pack, removed external AC adapter and left for 30 mins+ to discharge any internal RTC batteries etc ?

Hold down Escape key and keep pressed down whilst powering up notebook, then press F1 key to enter BIOS. What is the BIOS version ?

Try removing and re-inserting Hard Disk Drive (probably 1-2 screws under base).

Can you still not roll back or run safe mode ?

Is it running Win XP ?

Surge could have damaged memory also. If you have additional RAM remove it and try base RAM only.

Nick

Tannin said:

There is a classic recipe for trouble, I'm afraid. Hearing that, I'll double my bet that it's the power supply, or failing that the main board. The fact that other systems didn't fail at the same time means nothing: surges of power take stuff out pretty much at random, and it is not at all unusual to see quite delicate components survive without a worry, and usually robust things fall over. I've seen, for example, a floppy drive (which is such old, crude technology you couldn't kill it with a hammer) and a sound card (pretty robust things, as a rule) fail in the same system that had its RAM (delicate stuff) and power supply (usually the first thing to go) survive untouched. Yes, these are exceptions, but surge damage is completely unpredicatable. Oh, and it is commonplace to have stuff damaged by a surge but keep on working for a few hours or days afterwards. The only really reliable law with surges was written by our old friend Mr Murphy: it's usually the most expensive part, or the one that you can't get spares for anymore, that fails.

You need to see a technician to find out which it is: PSU or board. (Or possibly something else entirely, of course, which would probably be good as that would be cheaper.) Yes, it will cost you a few dollars for an expert opinion, but your only other choice is to throw the thing away. Any competent techie will be able to advise you whether it is worth fixing or not - that is his job.

Don't wait for Vista. New Windows versions are always a complete can of worms when they hit the market. Let some other fool do the beta testing, and consider switching to Vista after the worst of the bugs are fixed. 2008 sounds about right. The traditional rule that system administrators use is "never buy a Microsoft product before they release Service Pack 2". It's a pretty good rule.

Click to expand...

nickb said:

Hi Housefinch,

Tannin has some good advice here but I'd like to try and help further.

What model or laptop is it ?

Most laptops power supply units are now integrated to motherboard (some were seperate PCBs).

Cost may ot be as much as you think, but can be tricky to repair.

Have you tried removing main battery pack, removed external AC adapter and left for 30 mins+ to discharge any internal RTC batteries etc ?

Hold down Escape key and keep pressed down whilst powering up notebook, then press F1 key to enter BIOS. What is the BIOS version ?

Try removing and re-inserting Hard Disk Drive (probably 1-2 screws under base).

Can you still not roll back or run safe mode ?

Is it running Win XP ?

Surge could have damaged memory also. If you have additional RAM remove it and try base RAM only.

Nick

Click to expand...

My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite 1905-S301, and was released in 2002. I went into BIOS, and found the version to be V1.70: I just removed and re-inserted the hard disk drive, then removed the battery and left it out for awhile before putting it back in. I do run Windows XP, but after each reformat I have to reinstall Service Pack 2, since I bought my laptop before SP2 came out.

Since early this morning, I have been able to enter Windows, go online, etc. However, the monitor suddenly gave me a blue screen with white writing, which didn't stay up long enough for me to read it. The monitor went black immediately after showing the blue screen: at that point, even though the monitor was black, the computer was still running(I could hear the fan, and the lights at the front of the laptop were lit). Only shutting the computer completely off, then back on, restored the monitor. I'm using my laptop at this very moment, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the monitor will black out again eventually.

I know I can't keep a computer that will go off at random, as this may get in the way of my website building, uploading images, etc. I'm thinking of purchasing a new laptop, if no 'cure' for this one is found. I almost can't be bothered to take it in to a computer shop, as it seems more nuisance than simply buying a new system. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out, and go on playing games to see if the monitor goes out again.

This makes me wonder how well surge protectors truly work, although the one I'm using is quite old. I'll be sure of three things if I buy a new laptop:

1. Buy a good, new surge protector.

2. Never use my laptop during a storm, and leave it off on the day a storm is forecasted to arrive.

3. Back up my files much more often.

Faulty Laptop

Hi Housefinch,

There have been 3 new BIOS versions since yours, one of which is related to memory and i/o calls and could well be relevant. Try this link to BIOS 2.1. If the link doesn't work go to www.toshiba.com, select computers, then support and downloads and BIOS files for your model.

http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/...ineID=cccjaddglhgdkdmcgfkceghdgngdgmm.0&ct=DL

Its a self extracting file and needs to be run from diskette.

Also have trawled the technical bulletins on same website and this could be relavant ? (relating to a shareware game)

Issue solution survey

An error message referring to "DDCMan.exe" appears then the computer is shut down or restarted.

Resolution


DDCMan.exe is part of the shareware game WildTangent.Unistalling this game will eliminate the error message.

To uninstall WildTangent:

1. Click Start, then Control Panel.

2. Click Add or Remove Programs.

3. Select any entry labelled "WildTangent".

4. Click the Change/Remove button.

Repeat steps 3 and 4 until there are no more entires labelled "WildTangent".

Aside from that you could phone the Toshiba USA technical support line if you haven't already on (800) 457-7777 or throw it away.

My best guess would be either virus in partition still at start of drive whereby you need a low level formatting utility (ask the helpline guys or 3rd party versions) or Power Supply type fault.

If you saw the error messages I could probably help more. If you have an external monitor try using that to eliminate the internal screen. Could be video controller on main board if same problem on external or SYS PCB fault. (Probably around $500 if so)

Nick

HouseFinch said:

My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite 1905-S301, and was released in 2002. I went into BIOS, and found the version to be V1.70: I just removed and re-inserted the hard disk drive, then removed the battery and left it out for awhile before putting it back in. I do run Windows XP, but after each reformat I have to reinstall Service Pack 2, since I bought my laptop before SP2 came out.

Since early this morning, I have been able to enter Windows, go online, etc. However, the monitor suddenly gave me a blue screen with white writing, which didn't stay up long enough for me to read it. The monitor went black immediately after showing the blue screen: at that point, even though the monitor was black, the computer was still running(I could hear the fan, and the lights at the front of the laptop were lit). Only shutting the computer completely off, then back on, restored the monitor. I'm using my laptop at this very moment, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the monitor will black out again eventually.

I know I can't keep a computer that will go off at random, as this may get in the way of my website building, uploading images, etc. I'm thinking of purchasing a new laptop, if no 'cure' for this one is found. I almost can't be bothered to take it in to a computer shop, as it seems more nuisance than simply buying a new system. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out, and go on playing games to see if the monitor goes out again.

This makes me wonder how well surge protectors truly work, although the one I'm using is quite old. I'll be sure of three things if I buy a new laptop:

1. Buy a good, new surge protector.

2. Never use my laptop during a storm, and leave it off on the day a storm is forecasted to arrive.

3. Back up my files much more often.

Click to expand...

Excellent advice from Nick above. Wild Tangent, by the way, is a well-known spyware application.

Surge protectors can certainly help, but they are by no means 100% safe. I understand from people who know a lot more about this stuff than I do that their response time and thus ability to protect you varies substantially, but I'm not up to speed on the details.

Housefinch,

Living in Italy, with frequent outages, I have tried a few products. The best I have seen come from APC and seem to have the best surge filters and lag time. Of course you should get one for a business computer at 120 V. Personally, I use this one just so that you can get an idea of adequate specs: http://apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR800I

Don't know if it's strictly relevant, but APC make the best uninteruptable power supplies I've used, in fact the only ones that routinely outlast their warranties and never give trouble. Stands to reason that their anti-surge products would be good too. Their UPSs are around 20% more expensive than most of the other brands, and about five times as reliable. Worth it for sure.

Hi Housefinch,

You can get an idea of what caused the bluescreen error by checking the system logs. If you can find the relevant entry, you can post it up so we can try to translate it into English, hopefully pin it down for you.

You can stop the auto-reboot on bluescreen by changing the settings.

See attachments ...

Andy.

I've never heard of WildTangent, but I checked my list of programs anyway: it's not there.

APC sounds like a reliable brand: I did a search and found a retailer in Astoria. I know where I'll be shopping next.

I was able to upgrade my BIOS, which went from V1.07 to V2.10: the last error happened on the first of this month, so there haven't been any errors since the upgrade. Still, I don't trust my laptop. And, there's another storm coming later, which means I'll have to stop experimenting with it at some point. :storm:

I went to the system log, and took a screenshot of the most recent logged error.

HouseFinch said:

I went to the system log, and took a screenshot of the most recent logged error.

Click to expand...

Could you go to the System Error (102), double-click it to get the details and post those up please? It may be possible to narrow it down from that, though the BIOS update may have sorted it already.

Andrew Rowlands said:

Could you go to the System Error (102), double-click it to get the details and post those up please? It may be possible to narrow it down from that, though the BIOS update may have sorted it already.

Click to expand...

Oops, forgot about that part. (o)<

Here's a screenshot: if you need the information that's in the lower part of the dialog box(data, words, etc.), I can post that as well.

(The other night, I did remove the hard disk drive, and the battery, and reinserted them again, as Nick suggested).

Ongoing drama

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to say that I finally got pictures of those error screens. My laptop had a major crash today, and I had to reformat in order to get here again(at one point, the monitor went off, and I couldn't make it go on again after turning the computer on and off multiple times). I had taken the pics of the screen with my digital camera before reformatting, so I still have them.

I am able to browse the internet at the moment, but I think I'm going to end up buying a new laptop. If I kept this one, I wouldn't be able to update it as I'd want to, since that seems to aggravate, if not cause, the crashing and blue screen errors. But, I don't know, maybe some of you could get a better idea of what's going on with the attached pictures(the blue screen was the first error, and the black screen showed up when I turned the computer on and off).

A '50' error - the blue screen, could be RAM, CPU, mainboard or a multitude of other things (according to M$). You may be able to test if it's a RAM stick or slot that's faulty but if you have to reinstall after each bluescreen ...

Faulty Laptop

Housefinch,

Good advice from Andrew. Memory should be easy to remove (usually a flap under base with 1-2 screws holding it, but could be under keyboard. If you have 2 modules, try removing 2nd one. Also try 2nd one in 1st slot with 2nd one removed, ie to eliminate them. Stop error could well be this or CPU on main board which is not removeable and probably cost as much as new laptop.

Nick.

Andrew Rowlands said:

A '50' error - the blue screen, could be RAM, CPU, mainboard or a multitude of other things (according to M$). You may be able to test if it's a RAM stick or slot that's faulty but if you have to reinstall after each bluescreen ...

Click to expand...

Yesterday, I went out and got a new laptop...part of the reason being that my brother's desktop monitor konked out, and thus he didn't have a computer. He's currently testing my old computer, without updating, to see if any blue screen errors pop up. Even if they don't, a laptop that can't be updated isn't for me. On the other hand, he's not too particular about updates, so it may be fine for him.

That list of possible causes seems overwhelming: I think it's easier sticking with my new one. In the meantime, I'll stay well out of the way of storms, in case a power surge was the cause. I purchased an APC surge protector, which has a lifetime warranty: even in the absence of storms, the lights here will blink sometimes, so it's better to be prepared.

Thanks to everyone for the input: at the very least, I learned some new things about computers, and an important lesson as well. |=)|