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Upton Warren (19 Viewers)

RGUEST3 said:
Are these results being made available john?
Click to expand...

I will see if the Trust have a précis version. There were lots of diagrams and comparisons with historical maps of the where the saltmarsh was. Hypothesis of what is happening under ground and what will happen in the future. The likelihood is that the whole area will become a large lake, with little peripheral vegetation and no saltmarsh. Remedies on how to reverse these trends was discussed and close monitoring over the next 12 months will take place. A lot of the problems revolve around the encroaching reeds(phragmites) and high water levels eroding the islands and higher ground. There will be a lot of discussion and I am sure we will be having a say in the eventual action to be taken. All in all a bit more complex than we all appreciated and it is hoped that we will have an even better saltmarsh/grazing marsh community than previously. Which will hopefully see the return of lapwing and redshank.
Maybe some of the Tuesday team can give their take on the talk.:t:
 
upstarts1979 said:
I will see if the Trust have a précis version. There were lots of diagrams and comparisons with historical maps of the where the saltmarsh was. Hypothesis of what is happening under ground and what will happen in the future. The likelihood is that the whole area will become a large lake, with little peripheral vegetation and no saltmarsh. Remedies on how to reverse these trends was discussed and close monitoring over the next 12 months will take place. A lot of the problems revolve around the encroaching reeds(phragmites) and high water levels eroding the islands and higher ground. There will be a lot of discussion and I am sure we will be having a say in the eventual action to be taken. All in all a bit more complex than we all appreciated and it is hoped that we will have an even better saltmarsh/grazing marsh community than previously. Which will hopefully see the return of lapwing and redshank.
Maybe some of the Tuesday team can give their take on the talk.:t:
Click to expand...

Here goes (but the talk was delivered at breakneck speed and I may be wrong at several points):

It is undeniable from the evidence of aerial photographs and maps that over the past seventy years the Flashes have changed from three small ponds to the present situation where the First and Second Flashes have merged and there is some likelihood that the Third Flash will combine to form one large lake. This process is harmful to the (very rare for an inland site) saltmarsh plants which prompted the award of SSSI status for the Flashes. The plants seem to have suffered a drop in numbers perhaps because the rise in water level means the margins do not slope gradually as the plants like. The formation of a lake would exacerbate this process as there would be more wave effect and erosion at the margins. There is also the danger that the effusion of the freshwater Third Flash into the Second Flash would dilute the brine that the plants (and birds?) prefer. The cause of the higher water level is, as John notes, a hypothesis: it is believed that the bed of the Flash is subsiding. If this is the case then the water level will need to be monitored and controlled very carefully, and probably at different levels than hitherto.

It is planned that there will be a six-month long survey to determine if the bed is sinking and where. This survey should not interfere with the breeding birds.

Now for the birds: the problem here is that the waders prefer open land around the waters and margins they feed in but the encroaching reeds, especially the phragmites, are closing off the surrounding shores. It was hoped that the grazing cattle would eat the reeds but they apparently only take young plants. They may have taken out some young reed plants but the mature phragmites are still there to be seen. The cattle have brought some benefits in that they have churned up the soil for the feeding birds but the reeds remain a problem; they propagate both by rhizomes and seed. Because of the SSSI status chemicals cannot be used; mechanical diggers will sink into the soft ground. Clearly more discussions are needed on this urgent problem.

Any corrections and additions will be welcomed.

Peter
 
upstarts1979 said:
I will see if the Trust have a précis version. There were lots of diagrams and comparisons with historical maps of the where the saltmarsh was. Hypothesis of what is happening under ground and what will happen in the future. The likelihood is that the whole area will become a large lake, with little peripheral vegetation and no saltmarsh. Remedies on how to reverse these trends was discussed and close monitoring over the next 12 months will take place. A lot of the problems revolve around the encroaching reeds(phragmites) and high water levels eroding the islands and higher ground. There will be a lot of discussion and I am sure we will be having a say in the eventual action to be taken. All in all a bit more complex than we all appreciated and it is hoped that we will have an even better saltmarsh/grazing marsh community than previously. Which will hopefully see the return of lapwing and redshank.
Maybe some of the Tuesday team can give their take on the talk.:t:
Click to expand...

Thank you. Even managed to picture that as I was reading it
 
PeterE said:
Here goes (but the talk was delivered at breakneck speed and I may be wrong at several points):

It is undeniable from the evidence of aerial photographs and maps that over the past seventy years the Flashes have changed from three small ponds to the present situation where the First and Second Flashes have merged and there is some likelihood that the Third Flash will combine to form one large lake. This process is harmful to the (very rare for an inland site) saltmarsh plants which prompted the award of SSSI status for the Flashes. The plants seem to have suffered a drop in numbers perhaps because the rise in water level means the margins do not slope gradually as the plants like. The formation of a lake would exacerbate this process as there would be more wave effect and erosion at the margins. There is also the danger that the effusion of the freshwater Third Flash into the Second Flash would dilute the brine that the plants (and birds?) prefer. The cause of the higher water level is, as John notes, a hypothesis: it is believed that the bed of the Flash is subsiding. If this is the case then the water level will need to be monitored and controlled very carefully, and probably at different levels than hitherto.

It is planned that there will be a six-month long survey to determine if the bed is sinking and where. This survey should not interfere with the breeding birds.

Now for the birds: the problem here is that the waders prefer open land around the waters and margins they feed in but the encroaching reeds, especially the phragmites, are closing off the surrounding shores. It was hoped that the grazing cattle would eat the reeds but they apparently only take young plants. They may have taken out some young reed plants but the mature phragmites are still there to be seen. The cattle have brought some benefits in that they have churned up the soil for the feeding birds but the reeds remain a problem; they propagate both by rhizomes and seed. Because of the SSSI status chemicals cannot be used; mechanical diggers will sink into the soft ground. Clearly more discussions are needed on this urgent problem.

Any corrections and additions will be welcomed.

Peter
Click to expand...

Thank you Peter.
 
Of interest today a Chiffchaff behind the East Hide at midday, and it or another in the Education Reserve at 3 O'clock. Two Little Egrets came into the sailing pool at 4 O'clock to roost. Otherwise pretty much as reported by JTB yesterday. The lapwing count was 288. The 32 greylag were back but only 10 Canadas. Two Mute Swan were the first we've seen on Wednesday for a few weeks. On another matter we were approached by a local concerned about the A38 Solar Windfarm proposals, which would have seen solar panels installed in the fields either side of the driveway down to the Moors. First we had heard of it but according to the Upton Warren Parish Council site the proposals were rejected. But could be appealed? JS
 
John Sirrett said:
On another matter we were approached by a local concerned about the A38 Solar Windfarm proposals, which would have seen solar panels installed in the fields either side of the driveway down to the Moors. First we had heard of it but according to the Upton Warren Parish Council site the proposals were rejected. But could be appealed? JS
Click to expand...

Hi John - I wonder if there is some confusion about the location; the plans attached to the planning application seem to indicate a rather extensive area between the motorway and A38 just north of Upton Warren village: http://www.e-wychavon.org.uk/script...&RIPNAME=Root.Pages.PgeDC.PgePlanningRegister

I see a Mr Jennings is behind it all .....
 
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For ease I attach the layout plan here (the North Moors is in the bottom right hand corner) - these fields appear to be the source of many of the gulls that drop into the Moors Pool. Amongst the attachments on the first link I posted is correspondence from Steve Bloomfield at the Trust to the applicant regarding their proposals and its potential impact on the reserve at Upton Warren.
 

Attachments

  • Plans - incl. OS extracts-1036878.pdf
    244.9 KB · Views: 91
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PeterE said:
Here goes (but the talk was delivered at breakneck speed and I may be wrong at several points):

It is undeniable from the evidence of aerial photographs and maps that over the past seventy years the Flashes have changed from three small ponds to the present situation where the First and Second Flashes have merged and there is some likelihood that the Third Flash will combine to form one large lake. This process is harmful to the (very rare for an inland site) saltmarsh plants which prompted the award of SSSI status for the Flashes. The plants seem to have suffered a drop in numbers perhaps because the rise in water level means the margins do not slope gradually as the plants like. The formation of a lake would exacerbate this process as there would be more wave effect and erosion at the margins. There is also the danger that the effusion of the freshwater Third Flash into the Second Flash would dilute the brine that the plants (and birds?) prefer. The cause of the higher water level is, as John notes, a hypothesis: it is believed that the bed of the Flash is subsiding. If this is the case then the water level will need to be monitored and controlled very carefully, and probably at different levels than hitherto.

It is planned that there will be a six-month long survey to determine if the bed is sinking and where. This survey should not interfere with the breeding birds.

Now for the birds: the problem here is that the waders prefer open land around the waters and margins they feed in but the encroaching reeds, especially the phragmites, are closing off the surrounding shores. It was hoped that the grazing cattle would eat the reeds but they apparently only take young plants. They may have taken out some young reed plants but the mature phragmites are still there to be seen. The cattle have brought some benefits in that they have churned up the soil for the feeding birds but the reeds remain a problem; they propagate both by rhizomes and seed. Because of the SSSI status chemicals cannot be used; mechanical diggers will sink into the soft ground. Clearly more discussions are needed on this urgent problem.

Any corrections and additions will be welcomed.

Peter
Click to expand...

As someone who walks out onto the Flashes more than most I would comment that the area of the ground that current divides the second and third Flash is undeniably sinking and I suspect - all things being equal - that this will become one body of water within say a dozen years. This would have the immediate impact of losing an area that has historically held a number of salt plants but also would impinge on our birdlife with the south shore of the second flash being a frequent territory for breeding waders to locate their growing families to and an area attractive to passage waders, particularly.

The bigger unknown - alluded to above - is what the merger of the two bodies of water will do to overall level of salinity of the new "super flash" and the effect this will have on the water born invertebrates and resulting waders. I am sure Dave will be able to remind us of the differential in salinity between the various points at the Flashes and perhaps hazard a guess as to the impact (although from memory the salinity nowadays varies within various points of the combined first and second flash). Clearly there is a need for regular, reliable scientific data on this issue.

To prevent the merger of the flashes, lowering the water would be one solution. However this needs to be balanced with a number of undesirable consequences:

- A reduction in the length of the shoreline (and therefore the number of waders - passage and breeding pairs - that the Flashes can hold).
- A reduction in the volume of water (and therefore the number of feeding wildfowl / roosting gulls the Flashes will hold).
- Act as a stimulant for the increased spread of the phragmites from the existing reedbeds; at present deeper water is a barrier to its expansion.
- Increase the risk of the second flash drying out in hot summers

A number of these negatives outcomes could be mitigated although I am not sure Natural England would necessarily sanction to remedial actions eg the creation of further islands especially towards the first flash or the dredging of the second flash.
 
Do those plans actually state wind farm as they look like they could be solar panelling to me as there is no way they could fit that many wind turbines in that area to me anyway (blue outlined boxes that is)
 
Abbeybirder said:
Do those plans actually state wind farm as they look like they could be solar panelling to me as there is no way they could fit that many wind turbines in that area to me anyway (blue outlined boxes that is)
Click to expand...

The planning application seems to have only related to a solar farm.
 

Attachments

  • A38 Solar .jpg
    A38 Solar .jpg
    179.6 KB · Views: 111
I have copied below an extract of the objection from Upton parish council for the Rectory Lane site. The A38 site is obviously closer to Upton Moors and seems ludicrous that they would allow development this close to an SSSI. Have we missed dates for objections it seems crazy that this passed us by? Did the Trust lodge objections?

The proposed site for this solar farm is approximately 500m from the Upton
Warren/Christopher Cadbury Wetland Reserve, a haven for wildfowl and
migrating birds as well as rare and endangered species including frogs and newts.
It is also a site of Special Scientific Interest and is managed by the Worcestershire
Wildlife Trust. Birds flying to and from the wetlands overfly the site and rest in
the trees on the land. In the last two years a family of deer have become
established in the fields to the east of Rectory Lane between the motorway and
the A38 and at the moment can roam freely across the land subject of this
application.
 
John Sirrett said:
Some confusion indeed: the application I googled "Publications :: Parish Website of Upton Warren" shows:
Click to expand...
It looks like the picture you posted shows the wrong location for the solar array. Perhaps it's someones interpretation of the proposal.
Please see enclosed pic snipped from the planning application.:t:
 

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  • solar 1.JPG
    solar 1.JPG
    176.6 KB · Views: 114
PeterE said:
Here goes (but the talk was delivered at breakneck speed and I may be wrong at several points):

It is undeniable from the evidence of aerial photographs and maps that over the past seventy years the Flashes have changed from three small ponds to the present situation where the First and Second Flashes have merged and there is some likelihood that the Third Flash will combine to form one large lake. This process is harmful to the (very rare for an inland site) saltmarsh plants which prompted the award of SSSI status for the Flashes. The plants seem to have suffered a drop in numbers perhaps because the rise in water level means the margins do not slope gradually as the plants like. The formation of a lake would exacerbate this process as there would be more wave effect and erosion at the margins. There is also the danger that the effusion of the freshwater Third Flash into the Second Flash would dilute the brine that the plants (and birds?) prefer. The cause of the higher water level is, as John notes, a hypothesis: it is believed that the bed of the Flash is subsiding. If this is the case then the water level will need to be monitored and controlled very carefully, and probably at different levels than hitherto.

It is planned that there will be a six-month long survey to determine if the bed is sinking and where. This survey should not interfere with the breeding birds.

Now for the birds: the problem here is that the waders prefer open land around the waters and margins they feed in but the encroaching reeds, especially the phragmites, are closing off the surrounding shores. It was hoped that the grazing cattle would eat the reeds but they apparently only take young plants. They may have taken out some young reed plants but the mature phragmites are still there to be seen. The cattle have brought some benefits in that they have churned up the soil for the feeding birds but the reeds remain a problem; they propagate both by rhizomes and seed. Because of the SSSI status chemicals cannot be used; mechanical diggers will sink into the soft ground. Clearly more discussions are needed on this urgent problem.

Any corrections and additions will be welcomed.

Peter
Click to expand...

Exactly as I remember it Peter , to be honest I had forgotten some of what you included8-P so thanks for that:t:
 
Bob O. said:
It looks like the picture you posted shows the wrong location for the solar array. Perhaps it's someones interpretation of the proposal.
Please see enclosed pic snipped from the planning application.:t:
Click to expand...
Looking into this deeper there seems to be two separate solar plans and one of them is next to the Moors.
Is this correct? Can anyone shed more light on this?:C
 
The FLASHES - FUTURE

A lot of things and opinions will have to be taken into account before remedial action is taken. Phil and Peter have mentioned most of the factors involve, but another aspect to be considered are the wader feeding areas. These are the areas where the avocet chicks are reared and passage waders fuel up, this is totally reliant on the correct water levels at the right time of year.
During the breeding season we adhere to a strict water level regime, that has been formulated over many years of trial and error. Thereafter we are at the mercy of the weather, but we gradually drop the water, to increase the overall area of mud available to the autumn passage waders.
Over the last 4 or 5 years we have also been closely monitoring the avocet rearing zones. This has enabled us to highlight the location and quality of the habitat utilised. To achieve the status quo and even improve these zones we annually embark on a series of improvements and maintenance, this ensures that they are kept in prime condition to maximise the food source and a continuous supply of food for the chicks. This involves de-silting these shallow areas every two years, which indirectly benefits saltmarsh, as the plants colonise the piles of spoil that have been placed in the water.
This regime has resulted in optimum conditions for chicks to fledge rapidly. As the zones are in prime condition the area required by each pair is relatively small. This has also allowed the population to increase, with no adverse affect on the fledging success.
Hopefully all these factors and other idiosyncrasies of the site will be taken into consideration, before the definitive plan of action is finalised.
I am sure all parties involved are after the same goal, but we (birders and togs of UW) are less patient and more passionate about a speedy and successful outcome. We have been highlighting the problems for long enough, another year or two wont be too long to wait, so lets give them the benefit of the doubt. We will have to leave it in the hands of the 'professionals' (NE/WWT) and understand that if things go wrong, on their head be it. :smoke: John
 
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