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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 16:14   #26
rosbifs
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Great bins. I did a swap out with my father and niece in a three way move - I got the Zeiss. They are great but, and this is a small but, I find my previous Bins (Delta) were quicker to find a bird - what I mean by that is I could raise them straight to a subject in woods or otherwise but I can't with the Zeiss - and secondly they are heavy. Optically they are fantastic.

What's more I had to send them off for repair after the dog mauled them - he can open zips on rucksacks - and they were repaired as new FOC!!! I was expecting a 300£ quote but they came back 'NEW' for free. Unbelievable service.

They get a hammering from me (probably don't deserve them) for example they are currently under my rucksack in the boot of the car and they have not seen the inside of their case for years.

I have tried other newer alphas but these are comfortable around the eyes and I could never justify changing out. I have a second pair of cheaper bins for mountain walks though (bought whilst waiting for said pair to be repaired) which are lighter - great but in the wind not as stable in the hand as Zeiss.....
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 16:23   #27
Dorian Gray
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152672105766 my friend
Thanks. I misread and thought these were 7x42.
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 16:41   #28
breydon
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Thanks. I misread and thought these were 7x42.
O Sorry. But these 8x30s Don't come up often. I am just watching to see what price they make. Just keep saying I don't want them I don't want them I DON'T WANT THEM
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 17:47   #29
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If the OP will permit it, I'd like to ask a slightly different, but closely related, question about the 7x42 B/GA Classics.

Why is it that, twenty years on, these bins inspire so much more affection than the other top-flight binoculars of the late 1990s?

In 2002, at a photographic trade show, I broke that cardinal rule of optics: never look through binoculars you cannot afford. And so, I had to commence a programme of saving and data gathering.

Perhaps the review which influenced me most was one by Stephen Ingraham

http://web.archive.org/web/201610312...ton-Pentax.php

with its picture of four top-flight bins on a bench in an approximate order of preference.

(My summary of) the 2002 Internet zeitgeist was that

* the Nikon HG (its UK name) was too heavy;
* the new Zeiss BN was lovely, though a bit heavy;
* the Swarovski EL was possibly even lovelier;
* the first Zeiss Victory was dreadfully uncomfortable to hold;

and that all four of these were optically better than the 7x42 B/GA Classic and the Bausch & Lomb Elite, albeit not by much.

So why don't the Zeiss BN and the Swarovski EL, much respected as fine binoculars, inspire the same affection as the Zeiss Classics?

Later,

Dr Owl

----------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 18:45   #30
Pinewood
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Dr. Owl,

Did you mean Leica BN?

The 7x42 ClassiC is just such a marvelous design with its wide field, well controlled chromatic aberration, excellent light gathering power and ease of use despite its size. The Abbe-König prisms provide slightly more light transmission than even today's Schmidt-Pechan roof prism glassss as well as a touch of stereopsis. It's drawbacks include poor close focusing, although the later iterations were better than the earlier ones, and incomplete waterproofing.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 19:27   #31
breydon
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Click image for larger version

Name:	DH0ux1KWAAE36ol.jpg large.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	637986Found this on the Zeiss Birding site. The chap won a days birding with Simon King at the bird fair. He has been a Zeiss man for 25 years. Look what bins are round his neck. Says it all
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 19:58   #32
Alexis Powell
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Originally Posted by Dr Owl View Post
If the OP will permit it, I'd like to ask a slightly different, but closely related, question about the 7x42 B/GA Classics.

Why is it that, twenty years on, these bins inspire so much more affection than the other top-flight binoculars of the late 1990s?
They have excellent optics--excellent contrast, better color neutrality than competition, good CA control (probably because of the external focus), and excellent brightness. Other top bins at that time look a little dim now because their silver coatings weren't as good as today's dielectric. With its AK prisms, the 7x42 didn't need and still doesn't need those reflective coatings, so it holds up well.

They have excellent ergonomics. Fast precise focus. The slim but long barrels with ribbing and minimal center bridge allow folks with all different hand sizes and holding styles to get a good grip. Not equaled in my opinion until the Swarovski 8x32 EL and later Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision.

At least in the USA, the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP was how elite birders rediscovered the joys of a wide FOV and DOF for birding, especially in forests and brushy habitats. Those birders had been using 10x40 bins (including the Zeiss 10x40 BGATP) for a long while, had forgotten about 7x, and maybe never looked through that new-fangled 8x magnification. It got a lot of love, without most users knowing why, for being a well executed 7x. The only competition early on was Swarovski 7x42 SLC, but that one was heavy, bulky, stiff focus, slightly smaller FOV, not as bright, and until late 1990s had strong yellowish color bias.

Why don't the Leica
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BN and the Swarovski EL, much respected as fine binoculars, inspire the same affection as the Zeiss Classics?
The Zeiss 7x42 BGATP/Classic was not bested by the two later generations of Zeiss bins, only replaced finally by the 7x42 FL, so it was in some sense the pinnacle of its breed and thus is well remembered. Memory of its merits was reinforced by the fact that it hung on and resisted replacement by newer models. That memory only began to be diluted after release of a worthy replacement, the FL. The original EL were awesome, and still are, but they had slow and sometimes stiff focus, and ergonomically were not as good, especially for folks with narrow IPD because they didn't have enough room around the barrels for a wrap-around grip. If the original EL focused and handled like today's ELSV, I think it would be as well remembered. Instead, it is remembered only as a stepping stone to the later EL iterations that better realized perfection as birding tools. Likewise, the Leica 7x42 BN, though well regarded, were heavy and bulky and not as bright as the slimmer, lighter, and brighter Ultravids that were derived from them and that replaced them.

Anyway, that's what I think.

--AP
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 21:54   #33
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Thank you, Arthur; thank you, Alexis.

You are quite right, of course, that I typed Zeiss BN for Leica BN -- twice -- while my brain was on another planet. Sorry about that.

There is a coda to my tale: the already emerging cult of the 7x42 B/GA Classic as it was 15 years ago.

I went to Ace Optics in Bath which stocked all five brands, and spent quite some time trying them all out for myself. As I implied in my last post, I turned down the Nikons and the Zeiss Victories quite quickly.

The salesman just put the Nikons back on the shelf, but he wasn't letting me give up on Zeiss that easily. He took out a pair of 7x42 B/GA Classics and said I should have them on my short list together with the Leica BNs and the Swarovski ELs. (In the end, I chose the ELs -- which I have since heard already had dielectric mirror coatings -- a choice I have never regretted.)

The reason, he said was that they had a many a customer like me who was devotedly attached to these older Zeiss bins.

(I did half-suspect that by "a customer like me" he meant a middle-aged middle-class white man with an Oxford accent.)

Later,

John
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Old Wednesday 30th August 2017, 23:22   #34
Alexis Powell
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...In the end, I chose the ELs -- which I have since heard already had dielectric mirror coatings -- a choice I have never regretted...
Yes, the original EL are an awesome bin. In the context of this thread, perhaps it communicates my respect for them to tell you that although I had owned the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP for several years, when the EL was released I was so impressed I bought one, and they were my primary open-country bins (focus was too slow for forest and close-in birding) for many years. So they felt more like a step sideways than a step up. I still like them very much in every respect except focus speed.

--AP
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Old Thursday 31st August 2017, 01:08   #35
Pinewood
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...
There is a coda to my tale: the already emerging cult of the 7x42 B/GA Classic as it was 15 years ago.

...
Later,

John
Hello John,

I should have written that I own a Leica 8x32 BN in beautiful orange red. It was a rather well regarded binocular but I thought it outclassed optically by the Zeiss FL. Although the BN may have better glare control, colour rendition, suppression of chromatic aberration and eye relief are better in the FL.

Another "cult" has grown around the Nikon 8x32 SE, a binocular which I found rather unfriendly.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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