Shoulder Stock for 50 mm Scope - 3D printed (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone,

In the recent thread "Straight or Angled", Etudiant mentioned the advantages of using a shoulder stock to stabilize the view through a hand-held scope.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=346479

Intrigued by the idea and aided by Sancho's feedback on his experience with commerically available shoulder stocks, I designed and printed parts for a simple shoulder stock to use with my Nikon ED50. As I have both a straight and an angled body, I thought this would be interesting to try out.

Here is what it looks like:



To keep cost down, the length of the stock consists of a beech staff of 25 mm diameter and, presently, 220 mm length.

Length adjustment is by means of a hacksaw

I had planned to use PVC tubing, but as the hardware store didn't have it available in 25 mm, I went for wood, which looks nicer anyhow. It's a bit heavier though. The printed parts fit over the beech staff so well that it proved unnecessary to secure them with screws as originally intended.

So far, I've tried the shoulder stock with my ...

- Panasonic FZ1000 bridge camera with red dot/reflex sight,
- Nikon ED50A (angled),
- Nikon ED50 (straight).

For the camera in conjunction with a reflex sight, the shoulder stock is great. While I didn't have any birds around for testing, the well-defined position of the camera clearly makes it (yet) easier to use the reflex sight for tracking.

With the Nikon ED50A, the shoulder stock gives a very nicely stable view, from a fairly relaxed position. It's not tripod-stable obviously, but a clear improvment over using it hand-held. With the zoom eye-piece, I'm comfortable at 30x magnification, but I probably wouldn't regularly go to 40x.

To my suprise, the shoulder stock does not feel as good with the straight ED50 as it does with the angled one. This is owed to the fact that one has to raise the arms higher to hold the scope, which isn't nearly as relaxed, and the steadiness of the image accordingly is not as good as with the angled ED50. The hand on the focus dial also has to be held a little higher, adding to the feeling of subtle inconvenience.

(All these tests were made from the comfort of my living room while it was pouring outside, so I still have to test the shoulder stock in the field.)

Regards,

Henning

Impressive work! Very glad this is working out for you.

I'm not surprised that the straight scope fits differently from the angled, that was my experience as well. Hence the thought of some up and down adjustment, so that each scope would be positioned most comfortably.

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

I'm not surprised that the straight scope fits differently from the angled, that was my experience as well. Hence the thought of some up and down adjustment, so that each scope would be positioned most comfortably.

Click to expand...

I would say that the range of adjustment is not actually limiting ... here's how it looks like when adjusted for the straight scope:



It's my impression that the straight version doesn't feel as comfortable as the angled version is that the point of support is a couple of centimeters higher with the straight version.

That means the upper arms are not braced against the torso, but have to be lifted a bit, which makes the image a bit more shaky and in the long run is more tiring.

Thinking about it, I could probably insert a "raiser" between shoulder stock and scope so that the point of support is in the same position as with the angled version. That would leave the focus adjustment wheel in the same high position as before though, which is also inconvenient.

Hmm ... thinking outside the box now, there is no reason to keep the scope "upright". That's it: I just tried to turn it over on the right side, and that's a definite improvement The shoulder stock rests on the left shoulder now, I adjust the focus wheel with the right, and the hands grip the rig in an almost binocular-style way.

I had to rotate the "butt" 90 degrees to make this work ... advantages of a modular system!

Regards,

Henning

Hauksen said:

Hi Etudiant,



I would say that the range of adjustment is not actually limiting ... here's how it looks like when adjusted for the straight scope:

View attachment 633070

It's my impression that the straight version doesn't feel as comfortable as the angled version is that the point of support is a couple of centimeters higher with the straight version.

That means the upper arms are not braced against the torso, but have to be lifted a bit, which makes the image a bit more shaky and in the long run is more tiring.

Thinking about it, I could probably insert a "raiser" between shoulder stock and scope so that the point of support is in the same position as with the angled version. That would leave the focus adjustment wheel in the same high position as before though, which is also inconvenient.

Hmm ... thinking outside the box now, there is no reason to keep the scope "upright". That's it: I just tried to turn it over on the right side, and that's a definite improvement The shoulder stock rests on the left shoulder now, I adjust the focus wheel with the right, and the hands grip the rig in an almost binocular-style way.

I had to rotate the "butt" 90 degrees to make this work ... advantages of a modular system!

Regards,

Henning

Click to expand...

That is a clever idea, to shift the stock to the other shoulder!
Had not thought of it, but makes good sense.
Things improved some more for me by putting the ED50 into a stay on case and then clipping a decent shoulder strap to the case. That strap allowed one to snug the scope into position and just use the hands to guide it. Unfortunately the case that comes with the ED50 is not suitable unless you also have good sewing skills to modify it into a stay on design.
The Nikon stay on case goes for 50E, with the sling clipped in, the scope is super portable even with the monopod or stock attached.

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

Things improved some more for me by putting the ED50 into a stay on case and then clipping a decent shoulder strap to the case. That strap allowed one to snug the scope into position and just use the hands to guide it.

Click to expand...

Hm, I'm afraid I don't understand the technique.

etudiant said:

Unfortunately the case that comes with the ED50 is not suitable unless you also have good sewing skills to modify it into a stay on design.

Click to expand...

I believe a case only came with my ED50A, and it's unfortunately not a stay-on case as it covers the front lens permanently when on ... that's probably the one you're thinking of?

etudiant said:

The Nikon stay on case goes for 50E, with the sling clipped in, the scope is super portable even with the monopod or stock attached.

Click to expand...

Is that the separately available stay-on case for the ED50 (straight)? I actually have that, it's just that it blocks the tripod thread when on, so I took it off for the photograph.

Regards,

Henning

Hauksen said:

Hi Etudiant,



Hm, I'm afraid I don't understand the technique.



I believe a case only came with my ED50A, and it's unfortunately not a stay-on case as it covers the front lens permanently when on ... that's probably the one you're thinking of?



Is that the separately available stay-on case for the ED50 (straight)? I actually have that, it's just that it blocks the tripod thread when on, so I took it off for the photograph.

Regards,

Henning

Click to expand...

Hi Henning

The Nikon stay on case does block the tripod thread. I cut off the flaps that hold a screw for the tripod fitting, the angled back ensures the case stays on. Not sure that would be safe with the straight version. More talented birders could easily reposition those flaps instead.

You are quite right about the case the scope came with, it is pretty useless as is. I tried to make it into a stay on version, removing the end and then reattaching that with velcro. This effort was a dismal flop.
However, other contributors here on BF have achieved greater miracles rebuilding cases, so this redo is not impossible, just far above my skill level.

The sling goes over your back and under your left arm if the scope is positioned for the right eye. It should be tightened to the point that it holds the scope/stock combo fairly snug against your shoulder. It helped keep the scope more steady with the SteadyStock.
It should work better if the scope is comfortably positioned to begin with, something I never achieved with the SteadyStock, but your setup should allow.

Best regards,
Etudiant

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

The Nikon stay on case does block the tripod thread. I cut off the flaps that hold a screw for the tripod fitting, the angled back ensures the case stays on.

Click to expand...

I do actually have some tripod screws lying around that have a big head with another thread in them so that you can "stack" them. It would be nice to replace the Nikon screw with one of these, but I can't get the Nikon screw out.

The cheap variant of the "non-loss" screw arrangement just has the screw cutting threads into a softer material for insertion and removal, but Nikon apparently hid something more solid inside the flaps.

I guess you probably don't have the cut off flap with the screw available for inspection anymore?

etudiant said:

However, other contributors here on BF have achieved greater miracles rebuilding cases, so this redo is not impossible, just far above my skill level.

Click to expand...

I guess rebuilding cases is something I have to try and learn too, as I can't seem to find a way to mount a red dot/reflex sight adapter on my scope that is compatible with the existing stay-on case. If that topic has already been discussed in older threads here, I'd be interested!

etudiant said:

The sling goes over your back and under your left arm if the scope is positioned for the right eye. It should be tightened to the point that it holds the scope/stock combo fairly snug against your shoulder. It helped keep the scope more steady with the SteadyStock.
It should work better if the scope is comfortably positioned to begin with, something I never achieved with the SteadyStock, but your setup should allow.

Click to expand...

So the sling would go over my right shoulder, and be under slight tension? I can't really try this at the moment, as for lack of a suitable stay-on case, I have no shoulder strap on my ED50 currently.

If you'd like to try my setup, it's available here now: http://shpws.me/OLvy

(Though it's presented in the context of a shop, the price is actually the Shapeways manufacturing fee only, no profit for me in this!)

Regards,

Henning

Hauksen said:

Hi Etudiant,



I do actually have some tripod screws lying around that have a big head with another thread in them so that you can "stack" them. It would be nice to replace the Nikon screw with one of these, but I can't get the Nikon screw out.

The cheap variant of the "non-loss" screw arrangement just has the screw cutting threads into a softer material for insertion and removal, but Nikon apparently hid something more solid inside the flaps.

I guess you probably don't have the cut off flap with the screw available for inspection anymore?



I guess rebuilding cases is something I have to try and learn too, as I can't seem to find a way to mount a red dot/reflex sight adapter on my scope that is compatible with the existing stay-on case. If that topic has already been discussed in older threads here, I'd be interested!



So the sling would go over my right shoulder, and be under slight tension? I can't really try this at the moment, as for lack of a suitable stay-on case, I have no shoulder strap on my ED50 currently.

If you'd like to try my setup, it's available here now: http://shpws.me/OLvy

(Though it's presented in the context of a shop, the price is actually the Shapeways manufacturing fee only, no profit for me in this!)

Regards,

Henning

Click to expand...

Hi Henning,

Thanks for the tip on the Shapeways option.
A shoulder stock is something that I keep thinking about, as I enjoyed target shooting and think a stock would be good for scoping. However, my current setup, a Velbon Super8 monopod and ballhead combo, works reasonably both as a finnstick as well as a ground support, plus it is very compact. So maybe a winter project....

I still have the Nikon screw on my case as I only cut the cross link to free up the foot for the ball head. The screw appears to be held in place on the flap by a metal sleeve sown into the flap. That ensures that when the screw gets tightened, the pressure is distributed evenly enough to prevent it from damaging the scope. This area is a weak point of the ED50. There have been a number of users who had trouble with their scope/tripod attachment, so many that Nikon inserted a metal component into the screw fitting on the scope as well to make it more durable.

If you still have enough of the case around to hold the scope, you might try the idea of using the shoulder strap to stabilize your hold. That is what I was taught while shooting on the US Army's dime under their Director of Civilian Marksmanship program. Together with breath control, it really helps.

A much more successful Nikon case mod than mine is discussed here:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=287333&highlight=ED50+case

It may not be worth the hassle to mount a Red Dot sight on a scope.
The Kabsetz cable tie fix discussed extensively here on BF works very well, plus it is cheap. The only downside is that cable ties sort of wilt when confined to within a case, so the end result looks droopy in the field. It still works fine though, plus you can always bend the cable tie back up straight.
Highly recommended!
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=166747&highlight=kabsetz+cable+tie+aim

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

There have been a number of users who had trouble with their scope/tripod attachment, so many that Nikon inserted a metal component into the screw fitting on the scope as well to make it more durable.

Click to expand...

In fact, the plastic base below my ED50A's tripod socket came off pretty quickly. I don't miss it, but it's sort of amusing that the serial number is on that little piece of plastic.

etudiant said:

If you still have enough of the case around to hold the scope, you might try the idea of using the shoulder strap to stabilize your hold.

Click to expand...

Ah, thanks! That works surprisingly well, though in combination with the shoulder stock on the left shoulder, it's requires quite measured movements to switch from carrying to observing to vice versa.

etudiant said:

It may not be worth the hassle to mount a Red Dot sight on a scope.

Click to expand...

Hehe, I'm familiar with the cable tie, but I'm totally sold on reflex sights anyway. You can make a cable sight tie work, but the reflex sight really does the work for you

It's not by accident you see red dots everywhere in the shooting world these days, and for a scope on a tripod where the correct eye-rearsight-frontsight alignment is not determined by body mechanics, they are even more advantageous than on a rifle.

Most of the hassle with mounting a reflex sight is because it's entirely "homebrew" at the moment ... however, I recently saw that Vortex sells a scope with a standard mounting rail installed on the rear body, and that's pretty close to "plug-and-play" already.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Hauksen said:

Hi Etudiant,



In fact, the plastic base below my ED50A's tripod socket came off pretty quickly. I don't miss it, but it's sort of amusing that the serial number is on that little piece of plastic.



Ah, thanks! That works surprisingly well, though in combination with the shoulder stock on the left shoulder, it's requires quite measured movements to switch from carrying to observing to vice versa.



Hehe, I'm familiar with the cable tie, but I'm totally sold on reflex sights anyway. You can make a cable sight tie work, but the reflex sight really does the work for you

It's not by accident you see red dots everywhere in the shooting world these days, and for a scope on a tripod where the correct eye-rearsight-frontsight alignment is not determined by body mechanics, they are even more advantageous than on a rifle.

Most of the hassle with mounting a reflex sight is because it's entirely "homebrew" at the moment ... however, I recently saw that Vortex sells a scope with a standard mounting rail installed on the rear body, and that's pretty close to "plug-and-play" already.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Click to expand...

Hi Henning,
Sorry about the slow response, was out of internet contact for a week.

Nikon USA seems to have a policy that serial numbers are confidential.
My ED50 has none that I can find, but as a consolation prize, there is a very clear 'Made in China' on the foot, which incidentally does have the metal screw thread insert.
Sgt Abbot, my old range master, would be pleased to know that his emphasis on using the sling remains valid.
Vortex is clearly trying to make scopes more user friendly. A mounting rail makes sense, but I suspect there was stiff opposition from the marketing people who like to emphasize light weight. The prospects for a Nikon sponsored ED50 red dot sight are nil, unfortunately, as Nikon is not making money in sport optics afaik. Consequently development money is scant. It will be up to dedicated amateurs to indicate the way forward. The mounting is the hard part. The eyepiece fitting is probably the most exactly measured part of the scope, so clipping the sight on that part might be the way to achieve the 'plug and play' capability that is desired.

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

Sorry about the slow response, was out of internet contact for a week.

Click to expand...

Hopefully due to a beautiful vacation in a remote place!

I'm not so reliably online currently myself, my provider unplugged the wrong cables and is not able or willing to fix it. Best described by paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke: "Incompetence, when developed to a high degree, is indistinguishable from malevolence."

etudiant said:

My ED50 has none that I can find, but as a consolation prize, there is a very clear 'Made in China' on the foot, which incidentally does have the metal screw thread insert.

Click to expand...

Oh, that's odd. On all my European Nikon optics, I have a clearly indicated serial number. The screw thread on my ED50s is metal too, there's just a plastic piece that closes off the bottom of the metal foot to make it look nicer which has come off on my ED50A. Not a functional restriction, and it would be easy to glue it on again.

etudiant said:

The prospects for a Nikon sponsored ED50 red dot sight are nil, unfortunately, as Nikon is not making money in sport optics afaik.

Click to expand...

That's a pity, in my experience their optics offer very good value for the money.

etudiant said:

The eyepiece fitting is probably the most exactly measured part of the scope, so clipping the sight on that part might be the way to achieve the 'plug and play' capability that is desired.

Click to expand...

Very good point! On the Kowa TSN-883, there is even an accessory thread around the base of the eyepiece mount that would seem suitable for mounting a (still to-be-designed) adapter outside of the stay-on case.

Regards,

Henning

Hauksen said:

Hi Etudiant,



Hopefully due to a beautiful vacation in a remote place!

I'm not so reliably online currently myself, my provider unplugged the wrong cables and is not able or willing to fix it. Best described by paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke: "Incompetence, when developed to a high degree, is indistinguishable from malevolence."



Oh, that's odd. On all my European Nikon optics, I have a clearly indicated serial number. The screw thread on my ED50s is metal too, there's just a plastic piece that closes off the bottom of the metal foot to make it look nicer which has come off on my ED50A. Not a functional restriction, and it would be easy to glue it on again.



That's a pity, in my experience their optics offer very good value for the money.



Very good point! On the Kowa TSN-883, there is even an accessory thread around the base of the eyepiece mount that would seem suitable for mounting a (still to-be-designed) adapter outside of the stay-on case.

Regards,

Henning

Click to expand...

Hi Henning,

Thank you for the good wishes!
The trip was an week long visit to SE Arizona and adjacent New Mexico, spectacular scenery, good weather, a lovely Western Diamondback rattlesnake, tarantula, black bear, javelina and even a puma briefly seen first by our group's very sharp eyed Dutch birding couple. Spotted Owl, 5 Striped Sparrow, Costa's Hummingbird and Elegant Trogons were birding highlights.

Re your provider, I feel your pain.
Competition is a much more effective spur to providing good service than regulation, which is why everyone in the electronics/communications industry hates it and works hard to make it illegal.

I still have my Nikon serial number on the initial warranty card, but it is not visible on the actual unit. That said, I entirely agree with your assessment, they make good glass and sell it at a good price. Too bad their management
structure is so weak. Their inability to do more for their 100th anniversary than to produce a video and pre-announce a future camera speaks volumes.

At least Nikon Sport Optics, probably the least significant Nikon branch, saved the company's honor with their spectacular WX binoculars.
Holger Merlitz reviewed these at length here:
(http://www.juelich-bonn.com/jForum/read.php?9,434337,434337#msg-434337)
and his summary was that in comparison 'all other binoculars appear second rate'. That kind of excellence is really what Nikon is all about imho.

Re the Red Dot approach, I'm still not a convert, because I'm now used to my ED-50 enough that I can point it pretty accurately at 13x. If a closer look is possible, the zoom comes into play.
As the ED-50 is slung over my shoulder dedicated to my use, the Red Dot advantage of easy sharing does not come into play. I like the idea and would love for it to be an industry standard, but don't see how.
The mounting rail on the Vortex is not the answer imho, it would be like a tail fin on other scopes. My guess is that the eye piece will need to smarten up considerably more, to allow some sort of near zero magnification view to put the scope on target prior to actually observing.

Hi Etudiant,

etudiant said:

Competition is a much more effective spur to providing good service than regulation, which is why everyone in the electronics/communications industry hates it and works hard to make it illegal.

Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head - my problem is actually not even the provider I have a contract with, but the former state-owned monopoly provider who owns the landlines, is only forced into cooperation with my provider by de-regulation laws, which lack sufficient legal threats to the former state-owned business to make the latter behave.

etudiant said:

Re the Red Dot approach, I'm still not a convert, because I'm now used to my ED-50 enough that I can point it pretty accurately at 13x. If a closer look is possible, the zoom comes into play.

Click to expand...

I certainly believe you - a straight scope with low initial magnification in a light-weight optimized setup admittedly is the application where a red dot sight will make less sense than in most others

I actually used my ED50A as a proof-of-concept application primarily, to see if the reflex sight works well enough to be a worthwhile addition to my big Kowa. My typical application also involves carrying the equipment on my bicycle, so 200 g more (split between the sight and the adapter) are not an issue. The Kowa also has about twice the initial magnification of the Nikon, and at the North Sea shore often is set to 60x because the birds are small and far off.

Regards,

Henning