Flower id please (1 Viewer)

Leif · May 29, 2006

While out walking I came across several samples of a rather attractive wild flower. Most had single stems with multiple small red flowers and were about 8" tall. The large specimen was about 2 feet tall with multiple stems. See photograph. The habitat was grassland in a nature reserve. The soil was thin and chalky with an underlying chalk substrate.

The pictures are a bit grotty due to the strong wind.

Any help to get an id would be appreciated.

Also I have another flower to id, but sadly no photo. It's easy to describe. It looked like an upright artists paintbrush, with yellow bristles. About 4" tall, stem green, narrow at the base, broader at the top, no apparent leaves, at the top 1/2" long yellow 'bristles' seemingly covered in pollen. Growing on chalk grassland in early May.

Thanks.

Leif

Xenospiza · May 29, 2006

The photos are Cynoglossum officinale - Houndstongue.

I'll have to think hard about your description.

Joern Lehmhus · May 29, 2006

This should be Cynoglossum officinale, I think?

Joern Lehmhus · May 29, 2006

oops-same time posting

Leif · May 29, 2006

Xenospiza/Joern

Thanks. I've now been able to find it in my big plant book.

Leif

David FG · May 29, 2006

How about Colt's Foot (Tussilago farfara) for the second? The timing is a bit out, though.

Leif · May 29, 2006

David FG said:
How about Colt's Foot (Tussilago farfara) for the second? The timing is a bit out, though.

David: I see what you mean, but Colt's Foot is more robust and has a denser flower than the plant I saw. The 'bristles' were aligned with the stem, and seemed to be dusted with pollen IIRC. It might be a bit much to ask for an id from such an iffy description. Leif

Stranger · May 30, 2006

Leif said:
David: I see what you mean, but Colt's Foot is more robust and has a denser flower than the plant I saw. The 'bristles' were aligned with the stem, and seemed to be dusted with pollen IIRC. It might be a bit much to ask for an id from such an iffy description. Leif

Canadian Fleabane?

Leif · May 30, 2006

Stranger said:
Canadian Fleabane?

Much too big. What I saw was an upright stem, about 4mm across, green, 4" high, with a yellow bristle like head about 1cm long. Maybe I'll try flipping through my big plant book. Leif

Silver · May 31, 2006

Leif said:
Much too big. What I saw was an upright stem, about 4mm across, green, 4" high, with a yellow bristle like head about 1cm long. Maybe I'll try flipping through my big plant book. Leif

Hi Leif.
Could it have been Spring Sedge, Carex caryophyllea??? The terminal male heads, with their bright yellow and rather rigidly projecting stamens, could fit your description. The female spikelets may have been less developed when you saw them, and the plants looking less "sedgy".

Alan

Leif · Jun 1, 2006

Silver said:
Hi Leif.
Could it have been Spring Sedge, Carex caryophyllea??? The terminal male heads, with their bright yellow and rather rigidly projecting stamens, could fit your description. The female spikelets may have been less developed when you saw them, and the plants looking less "sedgy".

Alan

Hello Alan. Bingo.

http://www.english-nature.org.uk/imagelibrary/image_details.cfm?id=111661

I hoped you might know. It isn't even in my big book of plants - The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Ireland.

Thanks!

Leif

Silver · Jun 2, 2006

Leif said:
Hello Alan. Bingo.

http://www.english-nature.org.uk/imagelibrary/image_details.cfm?id=111661

I hoped you might know. It isn't even in my big book of plants - The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Ireland.

Thanks!

Leif

Me <--- smug.

Good to know the occasional wild guess works out!

Alan

Yaffle · Jun 2, 2006

Silver said:
Me <--- smug.

Good to know the occasional wild guess works out!

Alan

Re: Cynoglossum officinale - Houndstongue

I found this example today of Cynoglossum, again on chalk, it doesn't have the downy sepals of Cynoglossum officinale, I wondered if it could be Cynoglossum germanicum - Green Hound's-tongue?

Opinions appreciated,

Yaffle

Silver · Jun 6, 2006

Yaffle said:
Re: Cynoglossum officinale - Houndstongue

I found this example today of Cynoglossum, again on chalk, it doesn't have the downy sepals of Cynoglossum officinale, I wondered if it could be Cynoglossum germanicum - Green Hound's-tongue?

Opinions appreciated,

Yaffle

Undoubtedly! And I am jealous. This is a plant I have never succeeded in seeing. I gather from the Red Data Book that it has increased in Surrey in recent years, which is good to know.

Alan

Yaffle · Jun 6, 2006

Silver said:
Undoubtedly! And I am jealous. This is a plant I have never succeeded in seeing. I gather from the Red Data Book that it has increased in Surrey in recent years, which is good to know.

Alan

Thanks for the confirmation Alan. The site is in the Box Hill area on the north downs and a year or two ago was cleared of the small trees and scrub that you can see in the background of the first photo. I guess the seeds must have remained dormant in the soil for quite some time waiting for an opportunity to germinate - there were 15 or so plants in this patch.

Yaffle

Yernagates · Jun 6, 2006

Yaffle said:
Thanks for the confirmation Alan. The site is in the Box Hill area on the north downs and a year or two ago was cleared of the small trees and scrub that you can see in the background of the first photo. I guess the seeds must have remained dormant in the soil for quite some time waiting for an opportunity to germinate - there were 15 or so plants in this patch.

Yaffle

Gosh -- a plant I've seen that Alan hasn't... Almost makes up for him beating me to the Carex caryophyllea...

Yes, the green Cynoglossum is not too uncommon around Box Hill, and can be abundant. I think it did well out of the 1987 storm, as it likes open scruffy disturbed ground, and seems to pop up from a seed bank. (I first saw it a bit before the storm when it was still rare...)

Both species have a penetrating scent of mouse urine (similar to Conium), especially the older leaves. The largish seeds have fine hooked bristles, making them into very effective burs.

Richard

Leif · Jun 6, 2006

Yernagates said:
Gosh -- a plant I've seen that Alan hasn't... Almost makes up for him beating me to the Carex caryophyllea...

Yes, the green Cynoglossum is not too uncommon around Box Hill, and can be abundant. I think it did well out of the 1987 storm, as it likes open scruffy disturbed ground, and seems to pop up from a seed bank. (I first saw it a bit before the storm when it was still rare...)

Both species have a penetrating scent of mouse urine (similar to Conium), especially the older leaves. The largish seeds have fine hooked bristles, making them into very effective burs.

Richard

I do wonder how people know that the scent of a species is redolent of mouse urine. Surely few people keep mice, and as for smelling the urine ... yuck.

Fungi are well known for wide ranging smells. Camarophyllopsis foetens (a rare species) is said to smell of moth balls, which are rarely seen. Entoloma incana (which I found last weekend) is said to smell of mice. However at least one person refers to it as the "Mousepee Pinkgill fungus". Some fungi smells are said to be "spermatic". Hohum. It's all getting a bit too Jilly Goolden for me. All we need now is Ainsley Harriott to enter stage left ...

Leif

Silver · Jun 7, 2006

Leif said:
I do wonder how people know that the scent of a species is redolent of mouse urine. Surely few people keep mice, and as for smelling the urine ... yuck.

Fungi are well known for wide ranging smells. Camarophyllopsis foetens (a rare species) is said to smell of moth balls, which are rarely seen. Entoloma incana (which I found last weekend) is said to smell of mice. However at least one person refers to it as the "Mousepee Pinkgill fungus". Some fungi smells are said to be "spermatic". Hohum. It's all getting a bit too Jilly Goolden for me. All we need now is Ainsley Harriott to enter stage left ...

Leif

One of the classic fungal smells by reputation is the milk cap, Lactarius quietus, which is said to smell of bed-bugs. Whenever I say this on forays, the standard reaction is for folks to laugh and take my word for it. But on one foray, I was saying this and an old guy steps forward, takes the fungus from me, gives it one sniff and announces, "Aye, it does that."

He explained he was on more familiar terms with bed-bugs than he would have liked during the war.

Strangely, no one has yet corroborated the belief that Tricholoma lascivum smells of a French brothel ....

Alan

rollingthunder · Jun 7, 2006

Nice to know that GHT is doing OK - i managed to see it on Box Hill about 10 years ago but it took ally day searching - they might well have carried out some scrub management since then - Laurie...

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