CA is not seen by everybody and it bothers some people way more than others. Once you LEARN to see it it seems like you look for it more. If CA doesn't bother you on the Vanguard's don't look for it.
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Death Of The Alpha? (1 Viewer)
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I haven't had the Zenray ED3 but I have had quite a few Zenrays and I know that they have some quality problems and unless they have made some changes I would be very skeptical about the ED3 based on past experience. I know they have good glass it is the build quality that I am concerned with. Allbinos didn't much care for the Zenray ED2 but maybe the ED3 is better. Zenray's customer service is non-existent from what I hear so I wouldn't buy one based on that alone. If a binoculars says it is made in Japan a large percentage of the binocular has to be made in Japan. They can't take a binocular that is sourced from China and built in China and say it is made in Japan. That would be illegal. The Tract Toric is not a Zeiss Conquest HD in a different skin I assure you. Where do you get your information? I have compared the two. I can't see what the hangup about focus direction is. Really all you have to do is get use to a different focus direction. I really don't care which way my binocular focuses to infinity. I think your problem is you are just hypothesizing about all these binoculars without ACTUALLY trying them. It amazes me that you can say you don't like a binocular when you never have really tried them. It is like prejudging a person by their looks or financial status without taking the time to really get to know them. Don't judge these binoculars by their specifications alone try them sometime.Dennis, I'm glad you've learned how to use the BF formatting syntax better, but really SHOUTING all this stuff in BOLD repeatedly doesn't make it true. :eek!:
Fact is that you've never tried a Zen-Ray ED3. You have NO "ACTUAL EXPERIENCE" of them. The Big Wigs at Swarovski almost spat their Chai Latte's out when they looked through them - they were that good. They are vastly vastly superior quality-wise to the ED2. You can't lump the ED3's in with Wal-Mart blister pack cheap Chinese pos (to use your terminology). :cat:
Fact is you've probably tried more Chinese binoculars than you are aware of. Just because a badge says Made in Germany, or Made in Japan, doesn't mean that parts of, most assemblies, or nearly all of the binocular is not sourced and made in China. :cat: You really are starting to talk through your hat, and in danger of crossing the line from enthusiasm to boorish stoopidity.
I would like to see the A-K prism Maven B2's, but only from an optical design curiosity point of view. I am glad they took up my suggestion of the 9x45 format (even though what I really want now is a 9x50!so kudos to them. However with a CCW to infinity focuser I have no interest in purchasing them, nor at that weight for a mere '45'. :cat:
I have no real interest either in the CCW focusing 8x Tract with its narrow 57° AFov and only 70% sweet spot as you posted in the Tract thread. There were reports of loose armour in that thread, and reports of CA from people not readily susceptible to CA. The 10x was rated as not quite as good as the 8x. Hardly compelling. :smoke:
I know some folk like it which is great for them, but I was quite underwhelmed by the Zeiss Conquest HD. This Tract is nothing more than virtually the same bin in a different skin - at least it's cheaper. I really wonder how these new companies (Maven, GPO) will fare selling the same re-skinned and re-badged Kamakura sourced 2nd tier bins as the Alphas do ..... at pretty much the same price! #takenformugsmuch? The Tract seems priced more realistically, but then the mail is that there's still plenty of meat on the bone anyway ..... :eat: :eek!:
This thread is still as ridiculous as it was several hundred posts ago -- I'm off to talk to brick walls and watch paint dry - literally!
Chosun :gh:
http://www.allbinos.com/254-binoculars_review-Zen-Ray_Optics_ZEN_ED2_8x43.html
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Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Yes it is. Much much better.
Don't be so sure about that!
Dennis, having a Clockwise to infinity focus direction is an absolute must must have for me. I can't live with CCW. I don't want to. There are some others on here for whom this is a massive issue also. Looksharp even started a thread on it because it drove him so mad. Like him, I won't even consider a bin with CCW focus. Not at all. It's an individual thing. Others on here are less critical on the issue, and that's fine too. Whatever works for an individual. I am glad that all the Alphas focus CW to infinity. Wouldn't you think that anyone hoping to win business away from them would follow suit? Just seems like common sense to do so. I think these 2nd tier bins are missing a trick by not matching the CW focus of the Alphas.
Life's too short for problems
I would have passing curiosity to have a look through them sometime, but can rule them out straight off the bat because of the CCW focuser, and the 57° AFov of the 8x, and the closed hinge body ergonomics - not a fan of that at all .... Open frame for me.Chosun :gh:
Hermann
Well-known member
I would like to see the A-K prism Maven B2's, but only from an optical design curiosity point of view. I am glad they took up my suggestion of the 9x45 format (even though what I really want now is a 9x50!
What I would really like to see is an up-to-date porro, with modern eyepieces, made by one of the big three (or four, if you count Nikon as one of the alpha manufacturers). Don't care if it's a Porro I, Porro II or Perger. But it would need to have the objective lenses wide enough apart for some real 3D effect.
Hermann
BTW, isn't this thread akin to flogging a dead horse by now?
The horse died, rotted away and disappeared without trace, some time in the week before last. Or earlier.
What was a decent enough question has ended up with the OP chasing around in ever decreasing circles, diminishing any merit in his original question and doing his new passion-bins a power of no good.
Lee
Herman,
Nikon still makes a number of Porro prisms in all price ranges with both CF and IF. Maybe they will make one for their 100th Centennial this year?
There are others besides these:
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/sportoptics/binoculars/nature/index.htm
Bob
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The-Wanderer
Well-known member
Maybe Nikon could resurrect the SE models and improve them in some areas, close focus and eye relief by a couple of mm.
Presumably the company did not destroy its essential manufacturing bits.
Presumably the company did not destroy its essential manufacturing bits.
Here's why I won't consider your options du jour.
1. CCW focus (we have a 6X32 for guests with CCW) is a deal killer.
2. Narrow FOV relative to competition is a deal killer.
3. IPD above 56mm is a deal killer.
4. 9X45 is unappealing to me.
5. An established history of reliability and support is vital to me.
6. Cost is not a deciding factor.
1. CCW focus (we have a 6X32 for guests with CCW) is a deal killer.
2. Narrow FOV relative to competition is a deal killer.
3. IPD above 56mm is a deal killer.
4. 9X45 is unappealing to me.
5. An established history of reliability and support is vital to me.
6. Cost is not a deciding factor.
I happily use my 8X32 SE almost everyday around our wooded property. After 12 years, I have concluded that high-end porros will never again enjoy the prominence they once had among birders and outdoor enthusiasts. Many years ago I saw a $99 Chinese 8X30 porro that mimicked much of what I saw in the 8X32 SE. I thought, for sure, someone would produce a look-alike SE in the $200 price range and own the low-end market. How silly could I be. Opticron, Leupold and a few others produced an interal focus porro that had great potential. Too bad the final execution fell short, never gaining market traction.
I believe it's possible to produce a $300 porro that would shame many alphas. I also believe it will not happen. Porros are generally considered the "old" style and, in our day and age, old means obsolete. All the cool kids have roofs and the really cool kids increasingly sport high-end zoom cameras along with their alpha bins. See a rarity...you better have a photo!
Hermann
Well-known member
Bob:
Thanks for the link. IF is for my style of birding not particularly useful though, and the 8x30 EII/10x35 EII aren't really all that robust. They're also not waterproof at all.
All the other porros in the Nikon range are cheap Chinese made bins AFAIK. I don't find them of any interest.
What I'd like to see is some alpha porro, one that's also at least reasonably waterproof. Something like the old Zeiss West 8x30B, but with modern coatings and modern glass types. That 8x30B was spashproof, very small and light, with excellent optics in its day.
That won't happen, I know. Actually, I'm not even sure Zeiss or Leica will update their existing 8x32 roofs, at least not in the foreseeable future.
Hermann
Sad to say but I don't think it will ever happen. People seem to like the look of the modern roofs. Sometimes I think people don't like porro's because they look "old".
Members on the Zenray threads can't even get in touch with Zenray customer service. I personally wouldn't buy one or recommend one for that reason alone. I wonder really what happened to Zenray? Curious if the CW focus is so critical to some people why Maven and Tract chose to go CCW? The Tract's and Maven's aren't for everybody. My point is I feel they will really take away a considerable mount of sales from the alphas because they represent such a great value.Yes it is. Much much better.
Don't be so sure about that!
Dennis, having a Clockwise to infinity focus direction is an absolute must must have for me. I can't live with CCW. I don't want to. There are some others on here for whom this is a massive issue also. Looksharp even started a thread on it because it drove him so mad. Like him, I won't even consider a bin with CCW focus. Not at all. It's an individual thing. Others on here are less critical on the issue, and that's fine too. Whatever works for an individual. I am glad that all the Alphas focus CW to infinity. Wouldn't you think that anyone hoping to win business away from them would follow suit? Just seems like common sense to do so. I think these 2nd tier bins are missing a trick by not matching the CW focus of the Alphas.
Life's too short for problems
Chosun :gh:
Curious why you find 9x45 unappealing? I find it a good magnification. A little more reach than an 8x but you can hold it steadier than a 10x. With a big AFOV like the Maven B.2 9x45 has it is pretty WOW.
Because I have an 8.5X which, by the way, is midway between 7X and 10X. And, the 10X50 SV has a greater AFOV, something that really holds one's viewing interest. And it has greater eye relief, something I need. And, my 10X50 SV weighs more...I got more for my money!
I am surprised that Tract or Maven haven't jumped in at some point.
So were buying binoculars by the pound now?:-OBecause I have an 8.5X which, by the way, is midway between 7X and 10X. And, the 10X50 SV has a greater AFOV, something that really holds one's viewing interest. And it has greater eye relief, something I need. And, my 10X50 SV weighs more...I got more for my money!
