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Revisiting the classic porro (3 Viewers)

Steve:
Good idea and I agree about how fun the older porros are. The one thing I have found
out, is condition is such a hit and miss. If they have dust inside or are cloudy, then
it takes the fun out of it. A lot of these can be had for $30. but I have found about
a 50:50 chance of success. Many sellers have no knowledge but sell out estates, or
something from the closet.

Frank, how has your luck been on your purchases?

Jerry
 
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Steve:
Good idea and I agree about how fun the older porros are. The one thing I have found
out, is condition is such a hit and miss. If they have dust inside or are cloudy, then
it takes the fun out of it. A lot of these can be had for $30. but I have found about
a 50:50 chance of success. Many sellers have no knowledge but sell out estates, or
something from the closet.

Frank, how has your luck been on your purchases?

Jerry

Jerry,

I also find a chance for service is often needed. In fact the cost of that is one thing I factor into my purchases. I just snared a nice Swift 8x30 WA that will be going to service to Nicholas Crista. The seller assures me they are fine, and I do believe them. But Nicholas can literally transform a Swift binocular, so they will go off to his capable hands just out of general principles.

Even older glass that appears fine out of the shipping container can often have some internal pure age related issues. But overall. I think you are pretty close with 50:50. You get so you can tell a lot from the way the binocular is presented photographicallyl. Some sellers just don't know anything about their item, others can be really helpful.
 
Jerry,

I also find a chance for service is often needed. In fact the cost of that is one thing I factor into my purchases. I just snared a nice Swift 8x30 WA that will be going to service to Nicholas Crista. The seller assures me they are fine, and I do believe them. But Nicholas can literally transform a Swift binocular, so they will go off to his capable hands just out of general principles.

Even older glass that appears fine out of the shipping container can often have some internal pure age related issues. But overall. I think you are pretty close with 50:50. You get so you can tell a lot from the way the binocular is presented photographicallyl. Some sellers just don't know anything about their item, others can be really helpful.

Steve:
It seems we agree on the issues here. How much was a quote for cleanup
and collimation? The last time I checked with one of the big names it was
$100. plus shipping. That does take the fun out of it unless it is a special
one.

Jerry
 
Nicholas charged me $50.00 to remount prisms, clean, recolimate, and replace eyecups on a 1999 Swift Audubon 804. Similar llow prices for other Swift stuff. I have a Carl Zeiss 8x30 Jenoptem that I'm going to send to him next.
 
Nicholas charged me $50.00 to remount prisms, clean, recolimate, and replace eyecups on a 1999 Swift Audubon 804. Similar llow prices for other Swift stuff. I have a Carl Zeiss 8x30 Jenoptem that I'm going to send to him next.

Steve:
Now that sounds very reasonable. Nicholas must be very "swift" in his repair.
I have a Swift 8x30 Hunter, 60's or 70's, in need of a clean and repair of a broken diopter eyecup, I should contact him.

Jerry
 
Steve:
Now that sounds very reasonable. Nicholas must be very "swift" in his repair.B :)
I have a Swift 8x30 Hunter, 60's or 70's, in need of a clean and repair of a broken diopter eyecup, I should contact him.

Jerry
Nicholas has forgotten more about Swift binoculars than any other three people ever knew. So other than your Hunter coming back with the same serial # you will not recognize it.
 
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Nicholas has forgotten more about Swift binoculars than any other three people ever knew. So other than your Hunter coming back with the same serial # you will not recognize it.B :)ii

Steve:
I am wondering about that, but your advice is coming from a good source.;)

Jerry
 
Jerry,

To answer your earlier question....good question. I tend to agree with Steve, and yourself, that 50:50 isn't too far off. At the moment I have the 7x35 collection separated into bins that I plan on keeping/using and bins that I do not. I have to further subdivide the non-using bins into ones that I am going to resell (because I am not satisfied with their optical performance) and those that are going in the "parts-supply" pile as they have major issues with them and aren't worth fixing.

I wanted to make that latter distinction because there are bins that come in with perfect alignment with no major issues except some dirt on the inside lens surface of the ocular (an easy fix) but whose overall optical performance just isn't impressive enough for me to want to keep them and those bins that have more complicated issues related to either collimation or general use and abuse.

With that in mind I would say 50% are keepers and in good condition. 25% are "fixable" but don't meet my optics expectations and 25% are unfixable/not worth the trouble.

I did receive a gaggle of new (old) purchases in yesterday with some interesting new arrivals. I am going to post two of them up on the Flickr page as time allows this morning.
 
Frank:
Are you able to take some of these apart for cleaning? I would not attempt it
myself, but for those who can, that would be a good way to fix things up.

Jerry
 
Jerry,

Yes, I can do basic cleaning. It depends on the style of porro as some are very easy to disassemble to access the different areas of the binoculars while others are not. I don't do anything with the prisms except for cleaning the exterior surface when needed but I can handle eyepieces and objectives.
 
Jerry,

Yes, I can do basic cleaning. It depends on the style of porro as some are very easy to disassemble to access the different areas of the binoculars while others are not. I don't do anything with the prisms except for cleaning the exterior surface when needed but I can handle eyepieces and objectives.

That is more or less where I am too. However, if it is something I really want to keep I let somebody who really knows what they are doing do the work.

Another thing to keep in mind as well. Nikon (as one example) is still alive and well and there are quite a few older, very good, vintage Nikon binoculars, particularly porros. They have a pretty good service department and in their case the manufacturer may make the most sense for service or repaior. That's where I'd go if I ever can find a good 8x30 EII for example.
 
Like a lot of you guys I enjoy buying classic porros and I have acquired several over the last year or so but I want to mention one make/model rarely mentioned that offers fantastic value. I recently picked up a Canon porro on ebay and the optics/build quality are superb.

I had a rare day off work so I put some of my 8x porros on the coffee table this morning and spent a couple hours watching the birds at the feeder. I was comparing the binos and it surprised me just how good the 40+ years old Canons really are.

It was raining and the newer porros had a little edge in light transmission due to their better lens coatings but the Canons were just as sharp. This is really impressive considering the other 8x porros were an 8x32 SE, an 8x30 EII, and a 8x30 Habchit.

If you ever get a chance at one of the older Canon porros that appears to be in good shape I don't think you'll be disappointed. I was only out 61.50 total for the most "bang for the buck" optical value I've experienced so far.

Steve
 
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Like a lot of you guys I enjoy buying classic porros and I have acquired several over the last year or so but I want to mention one make/model rarely mentioned that offers fantastic value. I recently picked up a Canon porro on ebay and the optics/build quality are superb.

I had a rare day off work so I put some of my 8x porros on the coffee table this morning and spent a couple hours watching the birds at the feeder. I was comparing the binos and it surprised me just how good the 40+ years old Canons really are.

It was raining and the newer porros had a little edge in light transmission due to their better lens coatings but the Canons were just as sharp. This is really impressive considering the other 8x porros were an 8x32 SE, an 8x30 EII, and a 8x30 Habchit.

If you ever get a chance at one of the older Canon porros that appears to be in good shape I don't think you'll be disappointed. I was only out 61.50 total for the most "bang for the buck" optical value I've experienced so far.

Steve

Yeah, Canons are really good. I had an 8x30 I resold (one of those things I regret). I have a 7x35 that sadly needs to be sent for a proper service. Just too dirty for me to clean properly.
 
It would seem that there still is some interest in EWA 7x35s. I found a truly Super Wide Angle (12 degree) model on Ebay the other day and put it on my watch list. I was going to bid on this one but not at the price it is at now.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250967314499?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649

I also noticed a non-vintage, but still interesting Bushnell ultrawide angle 7x32 (700 feet) and that is priced out of my range too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320824669414?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649

Guess I will just have to keep an eye out....

...oh, I did add the Golden Ring and a Nikon Naturalist IV Action model to the Flickr account this morning.
 
Expanded View!

Last Sunday I had the opportunity to go down the road less traveled in my binocular journey and ended up with quite an expanded view both literally and figuretively.

My interest had become quite piqued about classic porro's by reading this thread. Frank has a tendency to elicit that response. And I had a few bins that Frank had interest in seeing, so we arranged a meeting on Hawk Mountain. So I arrived with my 5 bins and Frank arrived with....I couldn't even keep a running count of the bins. Let's just say there was not much room for a passenger in his truck.:king: He has been very busy these last couple months and has a couple real treasures to show for it.

Hawk Mountain has some of the most beautiful expansive vistas in our area, so what better place to try out some extra wide angle porro's on a sunny Sunday morning.

I have to tell you, from reading this thread, I expected to see some decent bins, but I was not prepared for the surprise I got from some of the bins. Several models stand out in my mind, but two models in particular knocked my brand name logic a bit off kilter. :eek!:

The first was the Tasco. In my mind, Tasco=cheap junk. Apparently that was not always the case. These old Tasco extra wide angles were bright and sharp and the view. Wow! What a view. The combination of the large sweet spot and wide fov really makes these binoculars shine. Very immersive. Needless to say I had to look twice to make sure I was looking through Tasco's.

Second up was the Sears Discover. Oh what a bin! Sears!! I mean come on. Sears!! Yep Sears. These bins are quite impressive. So out came my Nikon SE's for a comparison test. Yes they were that good. Mind you they are 7x's but in a side by side hand held test they came very close to equaling the SE's in both sharpness and resolution. So close it was really hard to call. The SE's win in brightness and contrast and of course better edges, but the Sears has such a wide field of view and a large sweet spot to boot, that it makes for a very desirable combination.

My favorite did not belong to the extra wide field of view pack, but had rather a measly 9.3 degree field of view. :-O These were the Nikon Action WF's. I honestly would be happy with getting a pair of these and selling my SE's. To me I liked the contrast better and the wide field of view, plus all the advantages that go along with the 7x configuration. The edges were quite good too.

Of course there were some bins that were just so so and others that were very good, but all in all they were all very usable bins. In the end I ended up buying an pair of Swift Sport Kings off of Frank that he had as a backup to the original Sport Kings he got. I am still enjoying the expanded view both literally and figuretively.


John
 
John - one of the dirty little secrets about collecting optics is that the Japanese have been been making superior optics for a long, long time. Their naval binoculars were superior to any thing we had during WW2, save the lack of coatings, which as we all know was first perfected by the Germans shortly before the war.

Following the war folks like Dave Bushnell began importing binoculars of an increasing quality. Witness the Custom line. But in any commodity, quality comes and goes, which was true of the Japanese optics unfortunately, particularly in the Insta-Focus era. The glass was good but the construction really iffy. We can even look at the Germans with the superb chassis of the Leitz Trinovid line with absolutely marginal optics for our edification.

It should be no surprise that many of the older Japanese porros were very good glasses because they (1) had good optics, (2) hard coatings, and (3) and well constructed metal bodies. Also, they normally used the double eccentric rings on the objectives lens for collimating and followed both the B&L and Zeiss body patterns, which are very functional. I have found from experience that the internal precision of Zeiss porros, primarily in the prism seats, was surpassed by no other manufacturer of porros.


When Canon abandoned its porro line for the stabilized binoculars, it left behind some very fine porros, which could be purchased for a lot less money than the rubber covered pieces of plastic with so-so optics marketed by other makers. Dozens of Canon porros passed through my hands, and subjectively, I have reached the conclusion that the 7x35 is the pick of the lot, superior to the B&L except for weight.

I recommended a Canon 7x35 to a fellow on this website, and he found them inferior to the latest wizz bang creation he had. So be it. But every 7x35 Canon I have come across has been snapped up for friends and customers and kept.

The Canon construction has a feature that goes unrecognized for most users. When the eye cups are removed, there remains an ample flat surface for sticking the 3-M
sticky back rings on it, allowing the full FOV for eye glass wearers without mashing your spectacles against your face.

If you purchase a second hand Canon porro with the oculars virtually frozen, don't force the wheel or you may break the arm connecting to the central focusing system. The problem lies in the spiral screw where the wheel is located because the grease has deteriorated leaving a somewhat rigid residue clogging up the system. This is a common problem with older B&L Zephyr models, too. Fixing them is easy, if you know how to go about it. Enjoy your Canons

Yellowstone John
 
John (number 1),

I appreciate your posting your experiences with those porros I brought along. I am surprised to see you didn't mention the 7x50 Sears. ;)

The ones you listed are probably my favorites as well though several of the others do deserve a bit of an "honorable mention" for one reason or another. Hopefully we can get together at some point in the future and do some more binocular "swapping". :)

John (number 2),

Thanks for the Canon info. I will continue to watch for a pair. I only see one vintage model up there now...a 7x50 with a 7.1 degree field of view. Hopefully a nice wide angle 7x35 will be listed at some point in the near future.

......

On another note, I should be updating the Flickr page at some point today with two new porros.
 
Frank
Forgot about the 7x50, that was the one I was taking a picture of the model number. Yeah I really liked that one. Bright and expansive view. Both Sears are on my radar, along with the Nikon's and tascos. Yes there were others I liked also but those stood out in my mind. That Stellar you showed me the other night were impressive especially for $10.

Yellowstone John
Thanks for the heads up on the Canon porros. My camera equipment is Canon
I will keep an eye out for those also.

John
 
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