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Ruddy Duck cull continuing (1 Viewer)

...The WHD population might be increasing but though I could be wrong here , I think I seem to remember reading there were less than 20 wild WHDs left in Spain in the 1970s.

There were until the aforementioned TG unofficially brought in a load and released them.....
 
Genetic sampling still has the spanish WHD as less genetically diverse than european Ruddy Ducks despite the Ruddy Ducks being derived from a dozen birds or so.

S'obvious. The introduced WHD were introduced to the introduced Ruddies and only true hidalgo WHD ignore Ruddies in the mating season. Ole!

John
 
Except White-headed Duck is not a declining species in Europe.

Depends on what period you're talking about.

Compared to 50 years ago? It certainly is declining.

Compared to 2000? It certainly is (population increased up to 2000s then fell by 50% over a few years - see here: http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/sowb/casestudy/239).

Compared to last year? Maybe not.

The species relies on a temporary habitat that is abundant for a few years, and then contracts in droughts. The population follows this boom and bust, when it is allowed to.

Uncontrolled Ruddy Ducks have a continuous stream of recruits coming from the north, so they might be in the minority in good years for WHD, but in the bad years they are a much larger proportion. And at some point we will reach a period of bad years where WHD are at a low ebb, and hybridisation is so rife that there are not enough pure WHD to build up a pure population again.
 
Genetic sampling still has the spanish WHD as less genetically diverse than european Ruddy Ducks despite the Ruddy Ducks being derived from a dozen birds or so.

I think there were actually about 80 birds contributing to the population, over time.

But considering that they could have come from a wide part of the Ruddy range, via captivity, then they could have had a lot of diversity to start with. If the Spanish WHD went down to a few dozen birds in the 70s, then there's the bottleneck.

The Ruddies never went through a bottleneck in the same way, as they were likely drawn from a wider population brought to a small geographical area, rather than being drawn from a population originating in a small geographical area.
 
Quote from birdboy "There were until the aforementioned TG unofficially brought in a load and released them....."

I helped to rear a lot of those WHDucks.
 
I think there were actually about 80 birds contributing to the population, over time.

But considering that they could have come from a wide part of the Ruddy range, via captivity, then they could have had a lot of diversity to start with. If the Spanish WHD went down to a few dozen birds in the 70s, then there's the bottleneck.

The Ruddies never went through a bottleneck in the same way, as they were likely drawn from a wider population brought to a small geographical area, rather than being drawn from a population originating in a small geographical area.

About 70 birds escaped/were released but this declined to a couple of dozen at most by the early 60s. Apparently they werent a particularly varied lot in the first place.
 
Agree with most people here, if you care about conservation then you should absolutely NOT keep quiet any sightings because that will only result in the whole thing taking longer and more birds ending up being killed.

I'm not personally convinced about the need for the cull, but the decision has been made and that should be respected.
 
i dont understand how anyone with decency can agree with killing ruddies who are we to say what should be killed its evolution one thrives another declines.. and how many white headed ducks has anyone seen in britain..0? 1 ?? i bet these tossers who want em killed were wanting all the cows and sheep killed during the bs mad cow disease fiasco...
 
its evolution one thrives another declines..
It's disingenuous to describe the accidental introduction of a rapidly proliferating alien species that readily hybridises with a globally endangered congener as 'evolution'.

R (one of these tossers who want em killed)
 
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i dont understand how anyone with decency can agree with killing ruddies who are we to say what should be killed its evolution one thrives another declines.. and how many white headed ducks has anyone seen in britain..0? 1 ?? i bet these tossers who want em killed were wanting all the cows and sheep killed during the bs mad cow disease fiasco...

Whats it matter if a WH Duck's been seen in the UK (and it arguably has been)?! The Ruddy problem (pardon the pun ;)) was caused by humans so surely its up to humans to right it, and the original Ruddies came from captive UK populations, so it is our problem...

Sam
 
i dont understand how anyone with decency can agree with killing ruddies who are we to say what should be killed its evolution one thrives another declines.. and how many white headed ducks has anyone seen in britain..0? 1 ?? i bet these tossers who want em killed were wanting all the cows and sheep killed during the bs mad cow disease fiasco...

Being translocated by humans is not evolution. The conservation principle guiding culling is that what man puts wrong, man should put right. This is why the reedbeds of East Anglia have not been devastated by Coypus. This is why there are increasing projects to eradicate American Mink. This is why projects to limit or push back Grey Squirrels are finally gathering steam.

Ask the Australians how many native species they have lost to feral cats and introduced Red Foxes. Ask Floridians if its really a good thing that 20,000 Burmese Pythons are breeding in the Everglades.

And don't come on here and talk about decency in connection with human behaviour. Of all the uncontrolled ecological menaces in the world, Homo sapiens is the one most deserving of eradication.

John
 
i dont understand how anyone with decency can agree with killing ruddies who are we to say what should be killed its evolution one thrives another declines.. and how many white headed ducks has anyone seen in britain..0? 1 ?? i bet these tossers who want em killed were wanting all the cows and sheep killed during the bs mad cow disease fiasco...

So I, and others here, who (reluctantly) support his cull have no 'decency' and are 'tossers.' With respect, this is not a convincing way to win your argument, but mere abuse. The issue of how many WHD posters have seen in the UK is irrelevant as you would be aware had you explored this issue thoroughly.

There is, of course, a moral and philosophical point here, and where you stand on the cull depends on the basic principles from which you start. I take the view that since we were the agents who introduced this threat to WHD's continued extistence, we have a moral duty to rectify the situation if possible. Naturally people who start from different principles will come to a different conclusion. I think that they're misguided, but, since their beliefs are sincerely held, I wouldn't (I hope!) abuse them. A similar approach from those opposed to the cull would be appreciated,
 
Misguided and sentimental ideas over the problems of introduced species that may cause a problem for native wildlife must be put aside if we wish to continue to maintain out native biodiversity or we will end up with impoverished wildlife communities in this country and indeed across the world. As for compairing it with culling Foof and mouth infected cattle is daft to say the least. Almost all those infected would have been killed by man anyway soon or later or would Arnie prefered we had a big cow \ sheep zoo so they could live their natural days out racked with disease.
 
i dont understand how anyone with decency can agree with killing ruddies who are we to say what should be killed

By helping ducks you harm thousands of cute little insects and worms which the ducks eat. And each insect is fascinating by itself. Did you think about that? That's why wildlife is no place for compassion to animals - they are always contrary to each other.
 
ok i see a few points here, agree with the fact i shouldnt say tossers and id never doubt humans are the worst animal but i dont like killing things end of story really..ps what are the ruddies dloing thats so bad if its breeding with other ducks ..wow are they the only ones that do that?? we do it all the time.....disagree with that and your shot down in flames "racists" lol
 
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