Why don't the major sporting goods stores stock any high-end Zeiss binoculars? (1 Viewer)

NDhunter said:

I have not read the original post, but here is what I have found when wanting to find the
top Zeiss models, in the sporting goods stores in my area. The only Zeiss models that are
stocked are the Conquest HD and Terra, at Cabela's, and at 3 Scheels stores that I get
to several times a year. They are good sellers, but the only premium optics found are the
Swarovski EL and SLC HD. The Leica Trinovid, is stocked and discounted as well as the
Geovid, but not the Ultravid.

Last summer, I did find a Zeiss HT at a smaller but great sporting goods store, 2 years after
its introduction.

The clear leader in sales on the high end are the Swarovski's.

Zeiss has a lot of work to do, to just get some of these stores to stock them. The next thing is to help train the sales force in the retail stores to know the difference. Many of these guys don't use binoculars often or don't have experience or the budget for the higher end.

If I were in charge of the Zeiss sales side, I would have an active sales force with a demo program for the optics dept. in these larger stores. I would provide 1 or 2 samples of the HT and the new SF binoculars, and let the staff get out and spend some time with these binoculars.
I have a feeling if these guys had some time with these premium optics, they would come back and tell their customers, these things are really good !

I have spent over 30 years in sales, and over 20 years in commissioned sales, now an experienced observer, with lots of opinion.

Some optics companies pay bonuses to retail sales reps for sales, and I have found at Cabelas, Vortex is featured
on a top shelf. Cabelas also has to sell their own brand.

Go to a grocery store, the brands have to pay for shelf placement. It is the same with optics, that is why Swarovski has many product buyers visit Austria each year. I suppose and expect Zeiss invites those same buyers to Germany.

I got a little long here, just food for thought.

Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

I can only speak from personel experience in this matter.

Zeiss offers 2 bins of free choice as demo to their dealers, so what you've requested is already in place.
All A-brands have a education program the dealer has to follow before he is in the position to sell that brand.
Only after a certain sales level, the dealer is invited for a factory tour (this may sound stupid, but factory tours are no fun! If you have seen one, you've seen them all).
AFAIK only Nikon and Canon give local sales reps a seperate sales bonus.
Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski provide a extra bonus every year depending on the sales level (between 3-10% of the total volume).
No brand pays for shelf placement, there is no francise and you pay for what you get within 30 days.

The reason why the big chains don't stock Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski full stock is that only Swaro sells in the full line, so it's profitable. A full line of Zeiss and Leica is called expensive wallpaper. Untill two years ago you had it to provide the customer a choice, knowing the choice will be Swaro.
Zeiss is now offering a three tier product line and with the coming of the SF/HT, the Conquest HD and the new Terra's they play a much bigger role in sales because the customer is positively pleased by the new range that Zeiss offers. No more FL's and Hungarian Conquest that they had for years.
Leica upgrades their models but for the customer it is still the same models that he has seen for years (and years to come), so sales in Leica is slow which means NO STOCK.

Jan

Dennis, because they are running a business, not a hobby store. Hobby is what you do.

jan van daalen said:

Hi Jerry,

I can only speak from personel experience in this matter.

Zeiss offers 2 bins of free choice as demo to their dealers, so what you've requested is already in place.
All A-brands have a education program the dealer has to follow before he is in the position to sell that brand.
Only after a certain sales level, the dealer is invited for a factory tour (this may sound stupid, but factory tours are no fun! If you have seen one, you've seen them all).
AFAIK only Nikon and Canon give local sales reps a seperate sales bonus.
Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski provide a extra bonus every year depending on the sales level (between 3-10% of the total volume).
No brand pays for shelf placement, there is no francise and you pay for what you get within 30 days.

The reason why the big chains don't stock Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski full stock is that only Swaro sells in the full line, so it's profitable. A full line of Zeiss and Leica is called expensive wallpaper. Untill two years ago you had it to provide the customer a choice, knowing the choice will be Swaro.
Zeiss is now offering a three tier product line and with the coming of the SF/HT, the Conquest HD and the new Terra's they play a much bigger role in sales because the customer is positively pleased by the new range that Zeiss offers. No more FL's and Hungarian Conquest that they had for years.
Leica upgrades their models but for the customer it is still the same models that he has seen for years (and years to come), so sales in Leica is slow which means NO STOCK.

Jan

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That is a very good explanation from an insiders standpoint. It is more complex than you think it is. So with Zeiss increasing their lineup do you think there will be more Zeiss models to choose from in the future?

marinemaster said:

Dennis, because they are running a business, not a hobby store. Hobby is what you do.

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I agree with you. It is all about numbers and meeting sales goals on the retail end. They have bills to pay and stockholders to please. There has to be profit or why go through all the work.

OPTIC_NUT said:

The stores carry what the market can bear.
The middle class is much diminished over the past 20 years, and also their spare time.
The upper middle class is following now, quickly.
I don't know the answer, but the world (USA esp) is approaching $20 and $4000 binoculars, that sort of thing.

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That is REALLY interesting. So it is a socioeconomic trend. The sales of binoculars follows the division of classes in the US. There is not as much middle class anymore but rather the poor and the rich so you get low end binoculars and high end binoculars with no in between.

HighNorth said:

Here in Norway, all the big optics retailers stock high-end Zeiss bins.

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You probably have a good economy so quite a few people can afford the HT's and SF's.

ceasar said:

E.O. did have them. They are out of stock now.

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I will how long it will be before they have some demo SF'S? HaHa. As soon as they get some returns because some people don't like them.

cycleguy said:

Dennis,

I think you should be asking why are binocular choices so poorly represented in the Denver metro area.

It's not just Zeiss.. try to find:
an alpha 7x... any flavor
Nikon EII or SE... (of course when they were available)
Nikon Premier...
Kowa anything...
Alpine Rainer, any size...
Celestron...
a current McKinley BX-4...
Vortex Vanquish...
the list goes on, and I've been looking for years.

I've yet to find a Conquest HD 8x32 brick & mortar retail... and that's not a big ticket item compared to some.

If we had combined our collections at various times over the past years... we would have had on hand a selection of glass this region has never offered!!!

P.S. I did see Zeiss HT (in 10x of course) when Cabela's first opened, but have not seen them since.

I did find Zeiss FL, Swaro SV, and Leica Ultravid HD side x side at the birding store in Littleton (that was pre HT & SF, I have not been on that side of town for some time so I couldn't say what they have these days).

CG

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Your right. I think they cater to the hunting market. All a lot of them have is 10x42 Swarovski's. There can't be no birders in Denver. The binocular choice is really limited here at the retail level.

The trend has very strong effects in collectibles.
There are many antiques that have plummeted the past 10 years.
Many people are liquidating all their silverware and old gold.
Main Street is very low on cash, esp if you are older.
The younger and semi-skilled have multiple beat jobs.
I notice at the antique store where I run a shelf.
Waterford Crystal is a fraction of the highs.
Hummels are....well, grit for the driveway. But I don't like that stuff.

For the geeks; old slide rules boomed in the hi-tech IPO days (~1995).
Now they are often $2-20, not $100--400.
Old pretty tube radios held up, but now they are going for peanuts.
I should find some cheap storage.


But.....designer platinum Deco jewelry, Old Zeiss (when it isn't war-ravaged), and rare
old muscle cars are booming. Yachts over 60ft are booming.
My nephew is working on the second carbon-fiber 60mph motor yacht for
a wordly client at the little shipyard. Amazing.

I've learned how to locate the old 'sleeper' values on optics and renovate them.
Don't know if or when they will go up again, but the best still produce a "WOW!"...
you know, a pair that stuns you right away.
It's in the eyepieces and baffling and the incredible build quality.

Regular folks buy and sell metals week by week....not wise
if deflation comes. But they are insecure, so they dissipate funds on hedges.
At least with binoculars I have the fun that optical addiction brings,
and achievments that can't be laid off when they are just right.

So....Zeiss and Swaro should ponder excuses to make a few
$10,000 compact binoculars, perhaps.

[email protected] said:

You probably have a good economy so quite a few people can afford the HT's and SF's.

Click to expand...

We also have a lot of hunters and nature-lovers! :t:

[email protected] said:

I will how long it will be before they have some demo SF'S? HaHa. As soon as they get some returns because some people don't like them.

Click to expand...

So that's what you are waiting for?

HighNorth said:

We also have a lot of hunters and nature-lovers! :t:

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That does have a strong effect on stores.

The WalMart in north Reading, Mass has 3 fairly crummy too-high-powered
models of binoculars and dropped even the Aculon line recently.
Meanwhile, in Oxford Maine (some tourists and many many hunters),
the WalMart has about 40 models of binoculars, the Nikon ProStaff 7s sells
like hotcakes, and they have Monarch 5 and Monarch 7 pairs and a various
Leupolds and Vortex.

Not exactly Zeiss, but it does show how big the influence of
common sport and hunting is. The Kittery Trading Post, in the
South of Maine, carries the top end of both Swarovski and Zeiss.
They also have hundreds of new and used rifles.
They only have a few crummy spotting scopes, so it's all about the hunt.

Quite possibly wants to live by his own "i want the best binocular there is"-marketing.

[email protected] said:

I think all this best birding binocular in the world stuff from Zeiss is marketing baloney.

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JvD described the dealer`s economic reality very well: As much stock as needed from as few suppliers as possible.

OPTIC_NUT said:

Not exactly Zeiss, but it does show how big the influence of
common sport and hunting is. The Kittery Trading Post, in the
South of Maine, carries the top end of both Swarovski and Zeiss.
They also have hundreds of new and used rifles.
They only have a few crummy spotting scopes, so it's all about the hunt.

Click to expand...

Yeah, here in Norway, Zeiss and Swarovski rifle scopes are the dream for those hunters who can afford them, and big 10x54/56 binoculars like the HT and SLC are preferred for their light gathering ability during moose/reindeer hunting and such.

A friend of mine bought a 10x45 Zeiss Victory RF just to go moose hunting for 2 weeks every year...|^|

[email protected] said:

Cabella's has never even had the Zeiss HT's or even the FL's ever nor Sportsman Warehouse.

Click to expand...

I haven't dropped by for the past year or so, so maybe they've changed their stocking policy, but I think it depends on which Cabela's you visit. In the past, I've been able to try just about any of the birding bins made by L, Z, S, and N at the Cabela's in Kansas City, KS, and at the two stores in the vicinity of Minneapolis-St.Paul, MN. I know I tried all of the x32 and x42 Zeiss FL models at the KC store.

--AP

Alexis Powell said:

I haven't dropped by for the past year or so, so maybe they've changed their stocking policy, but I think it depends on which Cabela's you visit. In the past, I've been able to try just about any of the birding bins made by L, Z, S, and N at the Cabela's in Kansas City, KS, and at the two stores in the vicinity of Minneapolis-St.Paul, MN. I know I tried all of the x32 and x42 Zeiss FL models at the KC store.

--AP

Click to expand...

I think those are the biggest Cabella's.

OPTIC_NUT said:

The trend has very strong effects in collectibles.
There are many antiques that have plummeted the past 10 years.
Many people are liquidating all their silverware and old gold.
Main Street is very low on cash, esp if you are older.
The younger and semi-skilled have multiple beat jobs.
I notice at the antique store where I run a shelf.
Waterford Crystal is a fraction of the highs.
Hummels are....well, grit for the driveway. But I don't like that stuff.

For the geeks; old slide rules boomed in the hi-tech IPO days (~1995).
Now they are often $2-20, not $100--400.
Old pretty tube radios held up, but now they are going for peanuts.
I should find some cheap storage.


But.....designer platinum Deco jewelry, Old Zeiss (when it isn't war-ravaged), and rare
old muscle cars are booming. Yachts over 60ft are booming.
My nephew is working on the second carbon-fiber 60mph motor yacht for
a wordly client at the little shipyard. Amazing.

I've learned how to locate the old 'sleeper' values on optics and renovate them.
Don't know if or when they will go up again, but the best still produce a "WOW!"...
you know, a pair that stuns you right away.
It's in the eyepieces and baffling and the incredible build quality.

Regular folks buy and sell metals week by week....not wise
if deflation comes. But they are insecure, so they dissipate funds on hedges.
At least with binoculars I have the fun that optical addiction brings,
and achievments that can't be laid off when they are just right.

So....Zeiss and Swaro should ponder excuses to make a few
$10,000 compact binoculars, perhaps.

Click to expand...

What in your opinion are some good old sleeper values.

I've discovered sleepers many of which seem to orbit/compete around the ~1970 7x35 Kowa Prominar.
The criteria are a similar depth of contrast, sharpness, and especially sharpness across almost the whole field.

The best, actually seems a little better than the Prominar, is the 7x35 Tower 7.1-deg "Featherweight".
There are Swift and Bushnell Promiar equivalents, but the price is elevated for those already.

There is a Bushnell Banner 7-D 10-min that is very close to the Prominar in all ways but the contrast,
which is still very good. (nothing like the x-wide Banner)

The Scope Mark IV 7x35 367ft....not as mech. solid as the Prominars, but intensely deep contrast.

The Scope "Custom" 7x35, 396ft (7.5D) fixes the focuser and goes one better, to a precision-ss piston.
They use sand-blast/lamp-blacking and have the obsessive beryllium-copper black-lined
hoods on the prisms..that keeps the contrast high even with traces of dust.
A decent front hooding too.

The Streamline/Peterson 7x35, a real brickhouse mechanically, super-quiet contrast.
Field not quite Prominar, slightly dim, but the most extravagant mechanicals...think "Custom-plus"
Lavish eyecup adjustment, big smooth diopter on the front of the objective.

------------
And the erratic/rare sleepers...
A pair of 7x50 precision-focused "SeeFars" from Tokyo Kogaku...amazing resolution.

A pair of "Regency" 7x50 // 7.1 from perhaps 1947-48 (pre-occupied and pre-JTI)
with an amazing sharpness, extra tunneling, and those rare prism hoods.
They took a lot if fixing but they are my main 7x50 now...they are lighter than the SeeFars.
(Well, they are IF so that helps weight) Actually portable-feeling 7x50s. Very easy on the eyes and shoulders.


The Vega Minerva 6x30 is uncanny. It gets overlooked because it's 6x30 and pre-Swift, but the field is special.

I can't call the old Bushnell Customs sleepers, since the price is always pretty decent for used.
They also have nice eye comfort but not as much of a sweet spot as the "Prominar chasers".


If the contrast and usuable-sharpness-width are extremely good and they are kind to the eyes, and cheap,
they are rare and worth holding for a while. Because Selsis were bright and neutral and mechanically good,
I thought they were sleepers....but they usually don't have a 'breakthrough' field of view like the
Prominar+competition set or a few oldies. More ordinary eyepieces.

BM-shops do have the two big disadvantages of rarely stocking what I lust for and of not enabling me to try the binos satisfactorily. We have one big hunting-store (Frankonia) in my hometown with a really good selection of binos http://www.frankonia.de/optik/fernglaeser/Artikel.html.

But the bino-part of the store is in the basement, not even a window being close by. So I preselect by evaluating whether a bino fits my eyes and then have to do mailorder.

OT:
I am very much a fan of 7x, but havent yet found one to fill my needs. A good Porro or roof in this class, that would be too good to be true.

Leica and Habicht dont feature the FOV I want, the latter being unacceptable narrow and the former still 10m below any good 8x. For a gven amount of money I can get better.

So I am continously on the look-out for a good s/h one like the Nikon 7x35. But with the way Nikon does service here in Germany (I didnt have that good experiences with the camera service over some decades) I wouldnt order any USA-based one from ebay. The risk being too high that I would have to invest a large chunk of money in a service to make it usable.

A new scandinavian sporting goods chain, "XXL All sports united", sells Zeiss Terra, Conquest HD and Victory HT.
I got the opportunity to compare Terra, Conquest HD and Victory HT. Apart from that they carry some Nikon Monarch 3s and other budget models.