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Brunton Echo porro vs Minolta Activa porro (1 Viewer)

BinoBoy

Well-known member
I was checking out Amazon’s Warehouse site last week and noticed a pair of Brunton Echo 7x50 porros that were available for half price, $39 with free shipping. Brunton’s don’t get a lot of attention here on the forum. I searched for reviews of the Echo’s and came up pretty much empty. There were a few posts about the Echo roofs, but none about the porros. The Echo’s are the Brunton’s high end porros, with the Lite Tech’s being the entry level models. That should put them in the same class as the Bushnell Legends and Nikon Action Extremes, although they are less expensive.

I’ve amassed a nice collection of budget porros over the last few years. I developed a simple two step process for adding to my collection. First, I let FrankD do all the work of buying and reviewing the bins and then I buy whatever he recommends. This has worked well for me. I acquired the Bushnell Legend 8x42, Celestron Ultima DX 8x32 and Orion Ultraview 8x42 this way and I’ve been impressed by all of them. Unfortunately, Frank has been too preoccupied of late to be my personal shopper;), so I decided to take a gamble on the Brunton’s and try to do my own review.

When I opened the box from Amazon, I was horrified to find that the Echo’s were in one of those clamshell/blisterpack things. I’ve always operated on the assumption that any bins hanging on a rack in one of those things were too chintzy to even be worth looking at. I was even more horrified to find that the idiots at Amazon had not used any packing material. They just put the clamshell in the box and shipped it. So, I figured they were crappy binoculars and probably broken or out of collimation to boot.

I was wrong! The Echo’s survived the trip unharmed. The build quality turned out to be excellent and the optics are spectacular. They have the smoothest and lightest focusing I’ve seen in a waterproof external focusing budget porro. Their field of view is narrow at 367 ft (7 deg), as is typical of 7x50’s. They weigh 31 oz, focus to 13 ft and have 19.6mm of eye relief. The image is very bright and sharp as a tack almost to the edges. I’d say 95% of the field is sharp. The depth of field and 3D effect are very pronounced and remind me of the Leupold Cascades porros. It really produces a WOW effect at times. I’m astonished that they can deliver this level of optical quality at this price.

The accessories are junk, though. The neck strap is a strip of cloth. The case was folded up in the bottom of the package. Completely unpadded. The eyepiece cover is of the individual type with a flexible bridge. Not terrible, but too tight. The objective covers press inside the barrels instead of being caps. They would actually be nice if they were tethered. The accessories and packaging are bottom of the barrel but the binoculars themselves are top notch.

I was so impressed with the 7x50’s that I decided to check out the other bins in the Echo line. They also make a 10x50 and an 8x45. The 10x50 has a FOV of 6.5 deg and 16mm eye relief. Weight and size are the same as the 7x50. The 8x45 has a FOV of 8.3 deg (435 ft), 16mm eye relief and weight of 23 oz. The 10x50’s are $90 and up at most sites, but I found a place called Bud’s Gun Shop in Kentucky that made a special purchase and has them for $44! With shipping, that works out to $55 delivered, so I ordered a pair. The best price I found on the 8x45 was $72 delivered from Optics Planet.

I noticed that the 7x50’s looked kind of familiar. I pulled out my Minolta Activa WP/FP 12x50’s and laid them next to the Echo’s. They are almost exact clones! Aside from the twist up eyecups of the Echo, the only physical differences are cosmetic differences in the focus wheel (more textured on the Echo) and the armor on the prisms. I got out a pen light and looked down the barrels. The construction is virtually identical. The Activa’s have two blobs of glue on the prisms but the Echo’s don’t. Otherwise, they are the same. I decided that the Brunton Echo porros are an updated version of the Minolta Activa WP/FP being sold in blister packs at give away prices! Minolta sold their camera division to Sony, but I’ve never heard what happened to the binocular line. If Minolta or Sony sold the porro rights to Brunton at a bargain price, that could explain the low cost of the Echo’s. Since Minolta has recovered or written off the development and tooling costs, Brunton’s cost would just be the manufacturing cost. The specs for the Activa and Echo 7x50’s and 10x50’s are just about identical, but the Activa 8x was an 8x42 not an 8x45. It had a 8.2 deg FOV rather than 8.3 deg. It’s possible that they redesigned it a bit because they thought it would be the biggest seller. It’s also possible that the Echo’s are produced by the same factory in China that the Activa’s were, but are slightly different designs.

I called Brunton’s customer service and the guy I talked to denied that they had bought the design from Minolta. He did admit that he really wasn’t familiar with the binoculars. Brunton imports a lot of stuff, so I’m not sure if he really knows what he is talking about. The Echo’s and Activa’s are so similar that I can’t distinguish between them aside from the magnification and a few cosmetic details. So, I think they must at least have been built by the same factory if they aren’t actually the same bins. The 10x50 Echo’s are due to arrive on Wednesday, so I’ll see how they stack up against the Activa 12x50’s.

At any rate, the Brunton Echo porros are a spectacular bargain at the discounted prices they are selling for. I paid $120 for my Activa 12x50’s USED! Does anyone know what they sold for new? Here’s a link to the 10x50’s at Bud’s:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411538272

OpticsPlanet.com has the 7x50's and 8x45's for $72 each.
 
Interesting report.

One other possibility: Minolta sold their bin designs to a Chinese optical company who now OEM for others including Brunto at the low end?

Is that the specified weights or have you verified them on a scale? They seem very low for a porro. If they are low how are the bins constructed? Plastic/composite in the case design?
 
The weights are from Brunton's specs. I don't have a scale. I think their web site said that they have a polymer frame.
 
They look like these bins available over here:

http://www.claritas-online.co.uk/products/product_pages/binoculars/falmouth.html

If you search BF for Hilkinson Falmouth, you should find a few comments about them. Mostly good I think.

There is another brand selling the same bins but their name escapes me at the moment. These ones are a lot cheaper than the Hilkinsons I believe. I'll post again if their name comes back to me.

Holger Merlitz did a review of the Chinese OEM version Loava.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/loava8x45.html

Best wishes
Martin
 
Thanks Martin,

Holger's review was interesting. I have not found any pictures of the Brunton 8x45's, but that could be the same bin. The published specs are the same. I'm disappointed that the FOV is not as wide as advertised. His appraisal of the optics sounds comparable to what I'm seeing with my 7x50's. I haven't noticed any problems with the bridge on mine. I've ordered a pair of the 8x45's from Optics Planet, so I'll see what I get.

Mark
 
Hi

Seems like a nice find and yes these look like a combo between Minolta Activa or Hilkinson and/or Loava
I am due for another jaunt to friends in Florida early New Year so contacted Budsnguns
A helpful chap called Rob has listed a few pairs on the big auction site of the 10 x 50 at $46.99 + $9 shipping (think they have added the Paypal fee to original sale price but its tiny)

Anyhow took a punt and will collect them when i'm across again

If they are half decent as the Hilkinson version (looked through an 8 x 45 ) or even better as good as the Minolta Activa's (i own 8 x 40 pair ) then that will be good news
Intrigued as ever
Anyone looking at a starter or intro pair could do worse i would imagine
Think its only shipping to US though

Thanks for the tip
Regards
RichT
 
Hi Rich,

I'm glad you've ordered a pair. I'd love to get an opinion on them from another Activa owner.

My 10x50's arrived from Bud's today. I just had a quick look through them and they are pretty spectacular. They are extremely bright and sharp as a tack in the center. The sweet spot isn't as large as the 7x50's, at least as a percentage of the FOV, but it is still quite large. There is a definite fall off near the edges. The package says the eye relief is 19mm like the 7x50's, but it isn't. It's quite a bit shorter. I normally need at least 14mm of usable eye relief and I've got the eye cups of the 7x50 raised about 8mm and the 10x50's about 3mm. The eye cups are a bit tighter than the 7x50's, so they stay in place better. Close focus is shorter than the 22 ft the package says, more like 19 ft.

I think you'll be happy with them. I think that they are an amazing value for the money.

Mark
 
Hi Mark

Well they sound pretty good for 10 x bins
I always think somehow its harder to achieve nicer optics in the higher mags
As for eye relief well 14mm should be ok for me as a non eyeglass wearer
Must admit its intriguing as to how Brunton got into the mix with these
Perhaps its just a factory knocking out an assortment of very similar models
Either way they look and sound nearer to the Activa's than the other brands i see over in UK
Will let you know when i see them but its not going to be until the New Year probably so a while yet
Once again thanks for sharing the info and price find

Best Regards
Rich
 
The Brunton Echo 8x45s arrived. Unfortunately, they didn’t survive shipping. They were badly out of collimation. Amazon and Bud’s Gun Shop both shipped the other two with no packing material at all but they both survived. Optics Planet at least put some wadded up paper on top of the 8x45s, but nothing underneath them. Their customer service department was very good about giving a refund.

I’ve been using the 7x50s and 10x50s quite a bit and I’m still very impressed with them. I wasn’t so impressed with the 8x45s. The field of view is about 8.2 deg. There was speculation that the Echos are the same as the Loava, but those have a 7.5 deg FOV. I determined the FOV by comparing to my Orion Ultraview 8x42s, which have an 8.2 deg FOV. I tried to check out the Echo 8x45, using one eye. The optical quality seems to be good, but it was hard to evaluate them using one eye. The bad news is that the close focus is about 25 ft rather than the 10 ft specified on the package. The close focus of the 7x50 is 26 ft instead of the 13 ft advertised. I thought that they were out of adjustment and went so far as to call Brunton and get authorization to send them in for warranty repair. However, I found the specs online for the Minolta Activa 7x50 and 26 ft is correct for them, so I decided the advertised value was wrong. The close focus for the 10x50s is about 19 ft, which also matches the Activa spec. The 8x45 are the odd duck of the bunch. I don’t consider 25 ft to be acceptable for an 8x42ish bin, so I returned them for a refund instead of an exchange.

So, I remain convinced that the 7x50 and 10x50 are rebadged Minolta Activa WP/FP bins. They are a fantastic bargain, in my opinion. I don’t recommend the 8x45, though, unless you can live with the close focus.
 
Well, I bought another pair of the 8x45s on ebay. There was only one other bidder so I got them for $25 delivered! The first surprise was that they came in an unmarked black box instead of the plastic clamshell thing. The second surprise is that their close focus is 15 ft instead of 26 ft like the first pair.

The optics are excellent! The focus is very light for a waterproof, non internal focusing porro. I like them better than the Bushnell Legend porro.

So, I retract my not recommended comments above.

I've been using all three of the Echo porros a lot and I'd say they are the best value for the money in a budget porro right now.

One interesting aside here is that Swift has introduced a new version of their Audubon porro. Their was a thread about it in the Swift section. Other posters commented that the housing appears to be the same as the Minolta Activa which I believe the Brunton Echos are using. The Brunton Echo 8x45 may use the same housing as the new Swift 8.5x44. Hopefully, the optics will be better considering the price difference.
 
Hi Mark

Well done on having another try i have yet to try my Brunton 10 x 50's as you know but by the sound of things the whole range are good value and perhaps Swift have produced a winner
Will let you know once i try the 10 x 50's

Regards
RichT
 
Hi Mark

Well the whole range sound good value and i look forward to trying the 10 x 50 Brunton's i bought but will have to be later in the year now as you know
Swift may be on to a winner also it seems

Regards
RichT
 
Now tried the Minolta/Bruntons

Hi Mark

Well i finally picked up the Brunton Echo Porro's mentioned below and i can mainly agree with all your comments when you tried them
They are very sharp in centre with a decent fov
Edges do fall off but no worse than many other chinese lower price porro's

As usual for a reasonably well made porro at the budget end these are excellent value and especially at the great close out price you flagged up

But.... i dont think they are quite a carbon copy clone of the Konica Minolta WP FP 10 x 50
I could be wrong but having checked some previous literature on the Minolta's i see the 10 x 50 had a fov of 6.5 degrees ie 341 feet whereas the Brunton Echo's are 330 feet which is 6.3 degrees

Close focus was about 7-8 feet shorter on the Minolta's
The Brunton Echo's describe the exit pupil on the box as 4.6 so i guess we have to assume these are 10 x 50's stopped down to 10 x 46

The Minolta's make no reference to 4.6 exit pupil but they could well be stopped down as well (just the manufacturer not letting on )

The Brunton body armour is slightly different and the weight is higher

Looking at my 8 x Minolta's in close comparison just for quality feel i would suggest the Minolta's are a tad better made but not by a significant margin

So there you go
I finally got to the Brunton's and despite my comparison above i can truthfully say i've never seen a pair of bins in this price range ($55 or so shipped ) that are so rugged and solidly put together

Optically they far outshine any other bargain basement offerings i've seen and only last night i tried them on a nice dark sky moon watch in Florida
They gave a very well defined view with little fringing

Thanks again for your original find

Regards
RichT




Hi Rich,

I'm glad you've ordered a pair. I'd love to get an opinion on them from another Activa owner.

My 10x50's arrived from Bud's today. I just had a quick look through them and they are pretty spectacular. They are extremely bright and sharp as a tack in the center. The sweet spot isn't as large as the 7x50's, at least as a percentage of the FOV, but it is still quite large. There is a definite fall off near the edges. The package says the eye relief is 19mm like the 7x50's, but it isn't. It's quite a bit shorter. I normally need at least 14mm of usable eye relief and I've got the eye cups of the 7x50 raised about 8mm and the 10x50's about 3mm. The eye cups are a bit tighter than the 7x50's, so they stay in place better. Close focus is shorter than the 22 ft the package says, more like 19 ft.

I think you'll be happy with them. I think that they are an amazing value for the money.

Mark
 
The Loava looks like the same enclosure, but Holger's review doesn't sound like my Echos at all. There is no excess grease in the eyecups, no tilting of the bridge and no problems with focusing at all. The enclosure seems to be getting popular. The Minolta Activa, Williams Optics Classics and even the new Swift Audubon seem to use this enclosure.

The specs listed on the Brunton packaging doesn't seem to be very accurate, especially close focus distances. There is also some sample variation. I actually own two of the Echo 7x50s now. I bought both from Amazon Warehouse at ridiculous prices ($39 and $42 shipped). The second one has a smaller sweet spot, a much shorter close focus and much longer eye relief than the first. Both of these were customer returns, so hopefully samples bought new would be more consistent.

Overall, I still think the Brunton Echo porros offer quality far beyond their price, especially if you shop around for a deal.
 
Hi Bob/Mark

Well Bob yes the Loava body looks very similar and could well be another variant on a theme
But i echo (no pun intended !) Mark's comments on the better build quality associated with these Brunton's
I too can find no grease issues with the eyecup arrangement or any unexpected bridge flex
The bridge mechanism on the pair i have seems as good as the Minolta Activa etc which is to say fine in normal useage
Perhaps not as overtly strong as some of the upper quality golden oldies were but the eyes can be pressed into the cups on mine without altering focus

Eye relief is i think less than the 19mm figure maybe 15-16mm is more realistic here

I still think close focus on this pair is around the specified figure maybe a tad shorter but it could be my own eyes accomodation interfering slightly here

I'm probably going to keep these at $55 they resolve well and should be fine for general use or back up

Imho there isnt a great deal of stuff out there even in todays market that performs like these at this price point and they seem a pretty decent catch if you receive a problem free pair

Best regards
RichT


The Loava looks like the same enclosure, but Holger's review doesn't sound like my Echos at all. There is no excess grease in the eyecups, no tilting of the bridge and no problems with focusing at all. The enclosure seems to be getting popular. The Minolta Activa, Williams Optics Classics and even the new Swift Audubon seem to use this enclosure.

The specs listed on the Brunton packaging doesn't seem to be very accurate, especially close focus distances. There is also some sample variation. I actually own two of the Echo 7x50s now. I bought both from Amazon Warehouse at ridiculous prices ($39 and $42 shipped). The second one has a smaller sweet spot, a much shorter close focus and much longer eye relief than the first. Both of these were customer returns, so hopefully samples bought new would be more consistent.

Overall, I still think the Brunton Echo porros offer quality far beyond their price, especially if you shop around for a deal.
 
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