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Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 14:47   #1
Houbara2
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Cornwall Red-throated Pipit?

A bird I photographed on Lizard Point on 8th Jan has been tentatively identified as Red-throated, but views welcomed. Right side of face is aberrant due to a tick. White below with strong black streaking, rather dark on mantle with thin white lines, wing bars white. Sadly, it did not call. No further sign of the bird since, despite much searching. 2 Richard's Pipits nearby much more obliging.
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Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 18:14   #2
KenM
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FWIW I've seen a group of RTP's on Cyprus during early April, most with classic heavily contrasting white braces, rufous tints to head and breast, also amongst the group,1st Winter birds not as well marked as this appears to be! I note that it also appears to have red tint to throat, flanks and head?

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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 16:52   #3
Houbara2
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Thanks for your thoughts on this one Ken.
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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 17:27   #4
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lack of nape streaking or any buff in breast plus bill shape seem to rule out pechora. Overall "black and white" appearance with white unders same all way up flanks and red center to throat all point to you being correct. A great find.
Congratulations, Howard
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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 18:35   #5
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Isn't the upper tail/rump a bit plain for Red-throated? Wouldn't we be seeing dark centred feathers with browner edges? Or are people putting this down to poor image resolution?
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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 19:05   #6
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Originally Posted by cafe birder View Post
lack of nape streaking or any buff in breast plus bill shape seem to rule out pechora. Overall "black and white" appearance with white unders same all way up flanks and red center to throat all point to you being correct. A great find.
Congratulations, Howard
I would take very little notice of the red (more like orange) tint to the throat feathers of this individual. Northern Meadow Pipits can be very orange on the throat and breast in early spring.

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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 20:03   #7
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This is the link to the bird in North Wales in 2010 that caused confusion with RT Pipit but was eventually identified as ’whistleri’ race Meadow Pipit... being streakier and darker and with orange tones to the throat/chest. Worth comparing with this bird. Without call always going to be difficult with these ‘extreme’ Meadow Pipits lurking out there...
Personally though, if I was seeing this bird I would be thinking RT Pipit even though rump is difficult to see clearly... are there a few darker feathers there? Oh for a call ;-)

http://greatormebirds.blogspot.co.uk...rlies.html?m=1
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 09:09   #8
Houbara2
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lack of nape streaking or any buff in breast plus bill shape seem to rule out pechora. Overall "black and white" appearance with white unders same all way up flanks and red center to throat all point to you being correct. A great find.
Congratulations, Howard
Thanks Howard. Pechora also ruled out on lack of primary projection. Choice is clearly between Red-throated and Meadow.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 12:00   #9
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Meadow Pipit for me. Lack of streaking on rump, lack of white braces on mantle, neat clump of streaking on breast front, orange (not red) throat, all suggest Meadow Pipit - which is also more likely in January, than Red-throated Pipit.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 19:12   #10
Houbara2
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Meadow Pipit for me. Lack of streaking on rump, lack of white braces on mantle, neat clump of streaking on breast front, orange (not red) throat, all suggest Meadow Pipit - which is also more likely in January, than Red-throated Pipit.
I would agree that what can be seen of the rump does seem to suggest Meadow.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 19:40   #11
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..... which is also more likely in January, than Red-throated Pipit.
I can't decide with the pictures, the bird does invoke RTP somehow (ignoring orange/red tones) but MP is so much more likely. Saying that, wintering RTPs are present in tiny numbers as near as north westen Portugal, where odd birds are being found - apparently increasingly. I would have thought SW UK and Ireland could have potential for wintering - or am I way off base?
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 20:56   #12
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Surely the N Western meadow pipits would show more buff on the underside not white as this bird does. I cannot see any rump showing but possibly some streaked upper tail coverts which are of no help from what reading I have managed. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can discuss any eastern races.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 22:15   #13
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Surely the N Western meadow pipits would show more buff on the underside not white as this bird does. I cannot see any rump showing but possibly some streaked upper tail coverts which are of no help from what reading I have managed. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can discuss any eastern races.
But we are discussing a winter bird here moving towards Spring plumage - some of my literature has Meadow Pipit becoming whiter below. The discussion in Birding Frontiers on Icelandic and Whistleri does relate more to Spring and Autumn birds with no real reference to winter plumages... so if RT Pipit loses the redness in summer then does Icelandic Meadow Pipit lose its ‘orangeness’ as well, and therefore cleaner underneath? Perhaps a first year bird? Literature to hand also says that eastern birds are paler and greyer so on second look, there are grey tones on the nape and wings... but are they as well streaked?
Ian

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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 14:35   #14
Houbara2
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But we are discussing a winter bird here moving towards Spring plumage - some of my literature has Meadow Pipit becoming whiter below. The discussion in Birding Frontiers on Icelandic and Whistleri does relate more to Spring and Autumn birds with no real reference to winter plumages... so if RT Pipit loses the redness in summer then does Icelandic Meadow Pipit lose its ‘orangeness’ as well, and therefore cleaner underneath? Perhaps a first year bird? Literature to hand also says that eastern birds are paler and greyer so on second look, there are grey tones on the nape and wings... but are they as well streaked?
Ian
Hmmm! Plenty of food for thought but I might just have to submit it as TRP and see what happens!
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