Norfolk birding (20 Viewers)

PYRTLE · Jun 12, 2013

Marsh Harrier hunting behaviour

Interesting change in how the adult male is hunting over Cley reserve - instead of the usual six feet above the ground quartering and drifting it is now climbing to a great height and dropping down on the avocet chicks with far more success than usual, also preventing the prolonged chasing off by the adults. Really quite thrilling.

Mark Batten · Jun 12, 2013

Gomphus said:
I hate to get involved here on the RSPB debate and the hide at Tichwell as I'm not in Norfolk but I found the link below and thought I'd share it, check out the paragraph full of B*****Ks about the design influences, funniest read I've had for ages (you have to smile at it surely even if you like the design!).
Incidentally I think the hide is a design disaster as do many others who have spoken of it to me (Doctor Evils bunker is mentioned a lot!)... I have a husband in the business and he just laughed the first time he saw it, then worried at the way it impacted on the area... incidentally the RIBA gave it an award (tells me all I need to know)...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/environ...eserve_scoops_award_for_its_new_hide_1_899406

I do wonder though reading this thread over the last few pages that in some eyes the RSPB can do no wrong.... it can and does, and its our place to criticize if we feel we need to.

Our conservation bodies undoubtedly do sterling work but I fear sometimes the "Fluffy Bunny" approach on shiny reserves (and on programs like Springwatch etc) is projecting the wrong image, I have heard a lot of public comments recently that its nice everything is clearly getting so much better what with the RSPB and the like owning all these reserve etc, "Wildlife belongs on reserves anyway" is the impression I get! A quote recently from a meeting my ecologist other half was in, "we don't want dirty wildlife here". Somewhere the message is getting lost....................

Steph'

It is remarkable what wins awards! http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ontroversy-from-a-pile-of-bricks-2277359.html

Perhaps we should all go and visit specsavers!

O.Reville1989 · Jun 12, 2013

Mark Batten said:
It is remarkable what wins awards! http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ontroversy-from-a-pile-of-bricks-2277359.html

Perhaps we should all go and visit specsavers!

Not even sure how the Parrinder has won awards to be honest. Being over 6ft tall if all the seats are taken I can't even see out of it except for a few metres in front of the hide.

All very well catering for children and old people but those with height do struggle unless seated, which is rarely possible.

The reserves are necessary but is the hide? Debateable, island hide is far more enjoyable to use.

jimbob · Jun 12, 2013

If something you lot 'need' turns up in front of the Parrinder Hide you will all be there with your lenses and notebooks (maybe not the latter....). It may look a bit odd, but I have been afforded excellent views of passage Waders and Wagtails from there. And, I am 'of height'! (PS forgot my notebook that day).
Furthermore, there is plenty of under-watched marsh on the North Norfolk coast without said hide anywhere near it. Titchwell is great, but is not the be all and end all of freshwater/brackish/salt marsh habitat in Norfolk.
The RSPB do not get everything right, but if they had remained without ambition and not built on their success in the 20th century, we would criticise them for not taking advantage of a growing interest in nature (which to a degree they are responsible for). Perhaps hides and visitor numbers/centres are a product of this, whether we like it or not. Share and share alike, hey people?

Cheers,
Jim.

Paul Eele · Jun 12, 2013

Titchwell June 12th

Today’s highlights

Little gull – 7 on fresh marsh
Green sandpiper – 1 on fresh marsh
Spotted redshank – 1 on fresh marsh
Mandarin – moulting drake on fresh marsh
Red crested pochard – 3 on reserve
Spotted flycatcher – 1 on Meadow Trail
Bittern – feeding flights over reedbed

Paul

RobLucking · Jun 12, 2013

Hi Hirundapus

No-one from the RSPB visited the nest. Consequently I have no idea how many eggs there were.

With respect to ringing the young, although only a relatively small number of Montagu's harriers have been ringed (usually between 5 and 15 a year in the UK) the recovery rate has been quite high at around 4% giving useful information on natal dispersal, migration and causes of death. Ringing therefore does serve a useful purpose and if we have to visit a nest to clear collapsed crops or to supervise the harvesting of a nesting field, ringing the chicks doesn't really cause any additional disturbance.

All the best

Rob

Hirundapus said:
Thank you, Rob. That at least partially relieves my concerns. Were there 3 eggs this year? Was this year's nest lost to a predator after an RSPB visit as is rumoured again? I was not aware of any strong winds or heavy rain having occurred.... Personally, I'd rather the young were not ringed either.

firstreesjohn · Jun 12, 2013

SPacifically SPeaking

It's one third of the way here.

Not moving SParticularly Swiftly.

Any bets for tomorrow afternoon ?

Steve69 · Jun 12, 2013

Sod the hides I am not a fan of any really, but who the hell put all the speed ramps on the in road to Holme. I suffer from back trouble and I hardly bother going there anymore due to them, talk about going over the top with them !!

upstarts1979 · Jun 12, 2013

Steve69 said:
Sod the hides I am not a fan of any really, but who the hell put all the speed ramps on the in road to Holme. I suffer from back trouble and I hardly bother going there anymore due to them, talk about going over the top with them !!

I think the 'stroppy' warden of the NWT reserve must have built those, to stop people visiting. He must be the least 'people' person warden I have ever met. :eek!:

Penny Clarke · Jun 12, 2013

Steve69 said:
......but who the hell put all the speed ramps on the in road to Holme. I suffer from back trouble and I hardly bother going there anymore due to them, talk about going over the top with them !!

I totally agree with you. The whole road is like a rollercoaster!!!!! But the good news is they are being removed apparently – in June I believe, which I am looking forward to and so is my car:t:

But, just to make you feel slightly better, 30+ years ago the whole road was a whole lot worse with massive pot holes along the whole length of the road!!!:eek!:

Penny Clarke · Jun 12, 2013

firstreesjohn said:
It's one third of the way here.

Not moving SParticularly Swiftly.

Any bets for tomorrow afternoon ?

Hunstanton Cliffs at 1pm and Cromer at 4.30pm

Steve69 · Jun 13, 2013

Penny Clarke said:
I totally agree with you. The whole road is like a rollercoaster!!!!! But the good news is they are being removed apparently – in June I believe, which I am looking forward to and so is my car:t:

But, just to make you feel slightly better, 30+ years ago the whole road was a whole lot worse with massive pot holes along the whole length of the road!!!:eek!:

Thats good news Penny, and my car will be very happy indeed !!

Nick Moran · Jun 13, 2013

Gomphus said:
I do wonder though reading this thread over the last few pages that in some eyes the RSPB can do no wrong.... it can and does, and its our place to criticize if we feel we need to.

I typed a post in praise of the Parrinder Hide earlier in the week but then decided to resist getting involved. That was until I read this. Steph' seems to be implying that RSPB has 'done wrong' when it comes to the Parrinder hide. Surely this is a matter of opinion, not fact?

As a Life Member of the RSPB of 19 years, I reckon I'm entitled to criticise if/when I want (which I'd try to do in an appropriately constructive way... I very much doubt Mike Clarke looks here!). However, I've been going to Titchwell since 1987 and I think the hide (and other developments on the reserve) are a step forward. Things have changed since the 1980s and we have to get used to that. Titchwell is a 'flagship' reserve. End of. In my opinion.

O.Reville1989 said:
Not even sure how the Parrinder has won awards to be honest. Being over 6ft tall if all the seats are taken I can't even see out of it except for a few metres in front of the hide.

I'm over 1.8m tall and have no problem. Nor does my <1m tall daughter. Compare to the experience of trying to see out whilst standing at the back of a hide that doesn't have 1+ metre high, moveable panels of glass...

For me a big plus for the Parrinder hide is the internal door and copious outside space, allowing for escape from 'hide bores' (or should that be boars/hogs?) if/when necessary!

jimbob said:
there is plenty of under-watched marsh on the North Norfolk coast without said hide anywhere near it. Titchwell is great, but is not the be all and end all of freshwater/brackish/salt marsh habitat in Norfolk.
The RSPB do not get everything right, but if they had remained without ambition and not built on their success in the 20th century, we would criticise them for not taking advantage of a growing interest in nature (which to a degree they are responsible for).

Hear, hear!

Hirundapus · Jun 13, 2013

RobLucking said:
No-one from the RSPB visited the nest. Consequently I have no idea how many eggs there were.

With respect to ringing the young, although only a relatively small number of Montagu's harriers have been ringed (usually between 5 and 15 a year in the UK) the recovery rate has been quite high at around 4% giving useful information on natal dispersal, migration and causes of death. Ringing therefore does serve a useful purpose and if we have to visit a nest to clear collapsed crops or to supervise the harvesting of a nesting field, ringing the chicks doesn't really cause any additional disturbance.

Many thanks, Rob. Appreciated. Good to know. The story of three eggs must just have been false rumour then. It would still be interesting to know what the thoughts were on why this year's nest failed though, but perhaps it is just unknown. Regarding ringing, if it really is not done as a priority, but only when it doesn't cause any additional disturbance, then all sounds good to me too. Was it widely realised that this year's male was ringed?

putnoebabes · Jun 13, 2013

Springwatch bushbashing

nicholland said:
After all this debate about respecting nesting birds, Springwatch says it is okay to find nests and beat bushes to locate them and even touch the eggs to see if they are warm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As the inbetweeners in the house say: wtf?

Couldn't agree more. Think I'll go and bash a few gorse bushes on local heathlands on the pretext of counting DW nests and eggs, see how long it takes to get me locked up, then call Martin Hughes-Games for the case for the defence!!!!! BBC should be ashamed!
Graham

Bilvo · Jun 13, 2013

putnoebabes said:
Couldn't agree more. Think I'll go and bash a few gorse bushes on local heathlands on the pretext of counting DW nests and eggs, see how long it takes to get me locked up, then call Martin Hughes-Games for the case for the defence!!!!! BBC should be ashamed!
Graham

Well said, they should be ashamed of themselves, Springwatch and the BBC are encouraging behaviour which totally baffles me; encouraging people to climb tree's for one "lets see how many nesting birds we can disturb", and then the year when Simon King was squeezing a Nightjar... totally mind boggling :C I gave up on the programme/BBC years ago :t:

Regards "the hide" at Titchwell, I avoid it like the plague, it's awful!!

Nick Moran · Jun 13, 2013

Hirundapus said:
It would still be interesting to know what the thoughts were on why this year's nest failed though, but perhaps it is just unknown.

See the second paragraph of Jim Scott's comments, as posted earlier in this thread by Paul Eele: http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2747523&postcount=20452

Hirundapus · Jun 13, 2013

Nick Moran said:
See the second paragraph of Jim Scott's comments, as posted earlier in this thread by Paul Eele: http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2747523&postcount=20452

Yes, I read that, I was just being greedy for the full story: "Almost certainly failure has been due to predation of the eggs, rather than disturbance caused by humans." Maybe the nest was visited afterwards and three broken/eaten eggs were found? Is that how it is known that it was predation rather than desertion? Were there any signs of or best guesses of what predator species it might have been? Without a human led trail, isn't a rape crop pretty much impenetrable to most mammalian predators?

Mark Batten · Jun 13, 2013

Gomphus said:
I hate to get involved here on the RSPB debate and the hide at Tichwell as I'm not in Norfolk but I found the link below and thought I'd share it, check out the paragraph full of B*****Ks about the design influences, funniest read I've had for ages (you have to smile at it surely even if you like the design!).
Incidentally I think the hide is a design disaster as do many others who have spoken of it to me (Doctor Evils bunker is mentioned a lot!)... I have a husband in the business and he just laughed the first time he saw it, then worried at the way it impacted on the area... incidentally the RIBA gave it an award (tells me all I need to know)...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/environ...eserve_scoops_award_for_its_new_hide_1_899406

I do wonder though reading this thread over the last few pages that in some eyes the RSPB can do no wrong.... it can and does, and its our place to criticize if we feel we need to.

Our conservation bodies undoubtedly do sterling work but I fear sometimes the "Fluffy Bunny" approach on shiny reserves (and on programs like Springwatch etc) is projecting the wrong image, I have heard a lot of public comments recently that its nice everything is clearly getting so much better what with the RSPB and the like owning all these reserve etc, "Wildlife belongs on reserves anyway" is the impression I get! A quote recently from a meeting my ecologist other half was in, "we don't want dirty wildlife here". Somewhere the message is getting lost....................

Steph'

http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.co.uk/
Not a great fan of LGRE, but there is a very interesting letter from Mr Clansey on the protection of bats on his blog that has been draw to my attention. It is well worth a read!

Yes, our conservation bodies should be given praise for buying up land, managing reseves and building visitor facilities. But that is not the complete picture.

Unfortunately, most of our wildlife does not actually live on nature reserves as in the case outlined above.

Why is it left to individuals and not our well funded conservation organisations to battle in these situations on behalf of wildlife. Suspect the argument that wildlife is best kept on nature reserves is going to become accepted as mainstream.

The Natural or perhaps Unnatural England me thinks:cat::cat:

RobLucking · Jun 13, 2013

From human height, oilseed rape does look pretty much impenetrable but if you get down to fox height it is much more open - essentially lots of stems and bare soil - so mammalian predators can move through rape fields quite easily.

Rob

Hirundapus said:
Yes, I read that, I was just being greedy for the full story: "Almost certainly failure has been due to predation of the eggs, rather than disturbance caused by humans." Maybe the nest was visited afterwards and three broken/eaten eggs were found? Is that how it is known that it was predation rather than desertion? Were there any signs of or best guesses of what predator species it might have been? Without a human led trail, isn't a rape crop pretty much impenetrable to most mammalian predators?

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