• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Hawke Frontier ED: another open bridge ED bin from China (2 Viewers)

Welcome Huang.

I hope you can answer some of our questions or correct some of our speculations.

Can you tell us which company your work for. Or which city you work in?
 
Steve C said:
Huang,

I for one , bid you welcome. There are certainly lots of questions regarding the Chinese Optics industry. Someone working there would save a lot of plain old guess work. There are lots of questrion regarding OEM-seller relationships and what binoculars with different labels might be clones of each other.
Click to expand...


Steve C ,
Thank you.
Generally speaking, if one brand(such as Hawke, or Promaster, or Bushnell) does not require the OEM factory to design and manufacture binoculars for its own worldwide exclusive ("worldwide exclusive" means that the brand should pay all of the research & development charge or promise a certain order quantity), the OEM factory can supply the similar binoculars for another customer. It seems this rule is also fit for Japanese OEM factories with their sellers.

So we can find many similar binoculars under different brands. For exsample, Bushnell Excursion and Vortex Diamonback, Promaster EDs and Hawke Frontier EDs, etc.

Best,
Huang Lingyun
 
Regarding the image quality from the center to the edge of Field Of View, in optical system design, it is quite difficult to correct the imaging tolerance for the outter FOV from 75% to the edge. So If we want a flat FOV, sometime we have to reduce the FOV.
For exsample, some 8X42 binoculars only have a FOV of 6 degrees.

Otherwise, we must design a very complex eyepieces optical elements or use the aspherical technology, which you can find on Minox binoculars, Docter binocualrs and Bushnell E2. But these will highly increase the cost.

By the way, under my testing, Hawke Frontier ED objective FOV of 8X42 is 8.12° and 10X42 is 6.5°( FOV at eyes side: 8.12X8°=65°, 10X6.5°=65°, Wide Angle),and the resolution should be under 4". But the imaging quality in almost 1° marginal area is not good. Even I need to newly focus ( adjust diopter) when you move the target from the edge to the center of FOV. But imaging quality in the main area of FOV is very good, true clarity, neutral, with high contrast. and its double hardcases including inner hardcase and external hardcase are convenient. At the same time, its neckstrap is comfortable.
 
Last edited:
Sweet, lots to talk about and comment on in this thread.

Huang,

I, too, would like to welcome you and thank you for your contributions to this point. I believe you can contribute quite a bit to the optics discussions on these forums. Case in point, you show obvious familiarity with many of the optical designs often discussed on these forums. I have particular interest in the Promaster ED/Hawke Frontier ED models. In my experience it would seem both of these models are a huge step forward in optical quality for Chinese manufactured binoculars. Would you care to comment more on them?

Kevin,

I am a little less than impressed with Hawke right now. It will be a week tomorrow and I have not heard a peep from them. Their website lists a 3 day UPS delivery time frame. Even if I count them accepting the order on Wednesday morning I should have had them today at the latest. Maybe they will show up tomorrow. I am going to call during the day to check on the status of the order.

Mark,

Thank you for sharing further comments on the Frontiers. It has been my experience that ED style glass definitely does improve image quality on even 7x bins. To my eyes the images look sharper and with more contrast. In other words I can see more detail through an ED glass image. It has that extra little bit of "pop" that makes you appreciate the fine details. Still, I do own one or two non-ED roof prism binoculars that are also very visually appealing. I wonder if they would even be better with ED glass.
 
thanks frank, i will have to take at look at a few pairs with ED glass with my optisans to check out the differance.
i must say the ops claim to have "PGK" glass prisms with PC phase correction coating and "Oasis" prism coatings.
i'll quote the info in the product guide:

oasis is the name given to a 64 layer coating process applied to the reflective surface of each roof prism. oasis improves light transmission to 99% over a broader spectrum at the reflective face when compared to silver coating traditionally used on many high quality roof binoculars. the result is a measurable increase in light transmission and overall image clarity.

end quote.

they are sharp, the oasis coatings do seem to make a differance over what ever others use. i would really like to see what improvements could be made and will deffinatly check it out. maybe the discontinued DBA will be replaced with something with ed glass and oasis coatings
 
FrankD said:
I am a little less than impressed with Hawke right now. It will be a week tomorrow and I have not heard a peep from them. Their website lists a 3 day UPS delivery time frame. Even if I count them accepting the order on Wednesday morning I should have had them today at the latest. Maybe they will show up tomorrow. I am going to call during the day to check on the status of the order.
Click to expand...

Hi Frank, we sent you an email on this, explaining the delay because we were flying a pair in from the UK especially for you to review. Please can you check your spam filters etc. and let me know if you got it.

Just to let everyone else know, we expect stock at our US facility later this month, which means your local dealer can order them in.

I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment on the products themselves - that's your job! I look forward to your review.
 
Last edited:
mark22c said:
i must say the ops claim to have "PGK" glass prisms with PC phase correction coating and "Oasis" prism coatings.
i'll quote the info in the product guide:

oasis is the name given to a 64 layer coating process applied to the reflective surface of each roof prism. oasis improves light transmission to 99% over a broader spectrum at the reflective face when compared to silver coating traditionally used on many high quality roof binoculars. the result is a measurable increase in light transmission and overall image clarity.
Click to expand...

Oasis == dielectric mirror coating. Should help transmission (assuming the AR multilayer coatings are excellent so you can see the difference!).
 
A question for Hawke Optics: is this Hawke's first foray into selling in the US on the internet (or did we just not notice the web site before making the assumption that you were a British only company?).

Clearly communication with the end users is an issue here. Your web site should set the users expectations that stock isn't available yet not that they should appear to arrive in three days and then they don't.

Hence the first question (just teething troubles?).

Respectfully, Kevin
 
Last edited:
Folks,

Just to clear things up a bit. I received a nice PM from a woman at Hawke Optics today via this website. Apparently my AOL spam filters were catching their emails. I had four of them waiting from way back into last week. These folks were actually nice enough to "special order" on of the Frontier EDs from their British headquarters. It arrived at their Indiana office today and was immediately sent out to me via UPS. I should have it before the week is over. As was mentioned they haven't received their stock of bins to be sold through the US headquarters but should be getting it shortly.

I am glad everything worked out and I greatly look forward to trying out these bins...by themselves and in comparison to the other models I have on hand. They sent me some really great information and seem to be quite willing to answer any questions we may have for them.

I love to see this type of manufacturer involvement!
 
Kevin Purcell said:
A question for Hawke Optics: is this Hawke's first foray into selling in the US on the internet (or did we just not notice the web site before making the assumption that you were a British only company?).

Clearly communication with the end users is an issue here. Your web site should set the users expectations that stock isn't available yet not that they should appear to arrive in three days and then they don't.

Hence the first question (just teething troubles?).

Respectfully, Kevin
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin

We've been in the US for two years now with our own office, warehouse and staff in Indiana. (We are best known for our rifle scopes where we are market leaders in Europe.)

Our primary channel to market is through our growing independent dealer network and recommend customers buy through their local store where they can. However we recognise this is not always possible so we have recently made our products available from our website.

With regard to stock, we have 196 different products in our portfolio and all but a handful are in stock and available. These items (which include Frontier EDs) will land in mid October. Given the short down time and the very few products involved, we took the view that we would ship any orders before then from the UK, whilst keeping customers informed of the extra delivery time at the time of order.
 
Thanks for the summary, Hawke Optics.

I guess at least with the folks here in the US there is now a feeling of brand presence but I think we've all been assuming you were UK only. Bad assumption.

But it's nice to see another product in this market segment at a very reasonable cost (especially for the UK buyers).

Looking forward to FrankD's review. ;)
 
I am expecting them tomorrow Kevin....

...can't wait to get home from work to see if the big brown truck has made a stop. ;)

I really cannot wait to compare them directly to the Promasters and the Meostars.
 
i hope to be testing a pair of the frontier ED"s whilst on the isles of scilly in just over a weeks time , i will be writing a review which may be of help to other birder's considering purchasing a pair :)
 
Macbirder,

Just to give you some things to look for and/or consider when you are looking at your set....check out the Frontier ED 8x43 review I posted over in the main binocular forum. They aren't getting as much "press" as the Promaster Elite EDs did but when someone else from this forum gives them a go I bet that will change. :)

I look forward to seeing your comments.
 
FrankD said:
Macbirder,

Just to give you some things to look for and/or consider when you are looking at your set....check out the Frontier ED 8x43 review I posted over in the main binocular forum. They aren't getting as much "press" as the Promaster Elite EDs did but when someone else from this forum gives them a go I bet that will change. :)

I look forward to seeing your comments.
Click to expand...

Hello Frank,

Thank you for your comprehensive review of the Frontier ED. As always....great job!

I have been keeping my eye on Hawke's website for a while now and have followed this thread since the first post. My initial interest were their porros but when the Mystery/Promaster/Frontier conversations started all I could do was to listen and learn. I think we were all waiting with baited breath for that brown truck to pull up to your house.

I do think that they are "getting more press" than you may realize because I believe the price went up $50.- (from $429.- to $479.-) just this week . I hope I'm wrong about that because that could leave a bitter taste in many people's mouths.

Thanks again Frank....sounds like your bino-restlessness syndrome may have found a cure. Enjoy!

Paula
 
pw53 said:
I do think that they are "getting more press" than you may realize because I believe the price went up $50.- (from $429.- to $479.-) just this week . I hope I'm wrong about that because that could leave a bitter taste in many people's mouths.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Messing with peoples "price anchoring" is not a good idea ;)

I guess that makes the choice between the Frontier ED ($489 inc shipping) and the Promaster ED ($499 inc shipping) a bit interesting given their now almost equal prices.

A slightly wider FOV with slightly worse stray light control versus narrower FOV with better stray light control plus hydro- and lipophobic coatings. Interesting choice.

I think Hawke may have just reduced their potential sales a bit by requiring people to choose.

So Hawke Optics how about a promo for members of Birdforum at the original price?

After all we seem to be your major marketing arm right now ;)
 
Last edited:
So Hawke Optics how about a promo for members of Birdforum at the original price?

After all we seem to be your major marketing arm right now

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

I have to laugh because after reading the post before yours and the beginning of your post the first thought to enter my head was "Do you think they will give me the original $429 if I order a second unit? I mean, come on, it has only been a week...."

;)

So it seems I was not alone in that thought process. I do wonder about that and would like to see if someone comes on to comment on it. It could be something simple though like the person who is responsible for the website making the wrong price conversion or some such thing. On the other hand maybe they are trying to keep it at the same price as the Promaster EDs because they come from the same OEM manufacturer. Still, it was nice to think that you could pay a little over $400 for a binocular with this type of optical performance and such great fit and finish. The price only went up $50 but it seems that $500 doesn't sound as good as $400 from that mental thought process standpoint....

...or maybe that is just me. ;)

Paula,

Thank you for the kind words. I really enjoy writing the reviews. Binoculars have always been an obsession of mine since I was very young. Me "mum" (note the British accent) always said I was crazy about two things...binoculars and flashlights. :)

The folks producing the Hawke ED and Promaster ED series of binoculars just made it a heck of alot easier for the average person to afford some very high quality/high performing binoculars.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 15 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

J
Full Spec Sheet for Nikon 8X30 Monarch HG
Replies
3
Views
1K
JohnVan
J
G
Post SHOT Show Deals - Check It Out
Replies
0
Views
456
gr8fuldoug
G
G
Hawke Endurance ED 20-60x68 Spotting Scope - Green
Replies
0
Views
989
gr8fuldoug
G
G
Hawke Endurance ED Spotting Scope Deals
Replies
0
Views
986
gr8fuldoug
G
yarrellii
Sky Rover 8x30 ED first (underwhelming) impressions
Replies
11
Views
2K
gcole
G

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Back
Top