FZ18 Noise Problem (1 Viewer)

ChrisLuv · Oct 12, 2009

Hi Guys,

I'm not an experienced photographer I must admit, but I'm struggling to get consistent results from my FZ18. The results are often very noisy when cropped.

I limit the ISO to 400, but take a look at the attached (cropped to 25% area to get under the BF size limit), admittedly the light was poor (early morning) but I'd expect better - it happens to lots of my photos.

I use "anti-shake" mode 1, Aperture priority mode with spot metering and auto-focus. I generally shoot in JPG. I don't use a tripod. Are these results down to camera shake, low light and the resulting slow shutter speed?

I'm thinking of getting a teleconverter (TCON 17 would be the best one, yes?), would the results be better than the attached (for noise) at long distance? I'm assuming I'd definitely need to invest in a tripod? Most of my shots are for "record shot" purposes, often at long range. I don't expect miracles but I want a decent-ish photo.

Cheers,
Chris

Hobbes2 · Oct 12, 2009

ChrisLuv said:
Hi Guys,

I'm not an experienced photographer I must admit, but I'm struggling to get consistent results from my FZ18. The results are often very noisy when cropped.

I limit the ISO to 400, but take a look at the attached (cropped to 25% area to get under the BF size limit), admittedly the light was poor (early morning) but I'd expect better - it happens to lots of my photos.

I use "anti-shake" mode 1, Aperture priority mode with spot metering and auto-focus. I generally shoot in JPG. I don't use a tripod. Are these results down to camera shake, low light and the resulting slow shutter speed?

I'm thinking of getting a teleconverter (TCON 17 would be the best one, yes?), would the results be better than the attached (for noise) at long distance? I'm assuming I'd definitely need to invest in a tripod? Most of my shots are for "record shot" purposes, often at long range. I don't expect miracles but I want a decent-ish photo.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris
Were you using the optical and/or digital zoom for the photograph? What level was it at (i.e. max optical zoom? max digital zoom?), if you can remember? What picture size was it set to? 3MG, 5MG, 7MG??

I use the FZ18's predecessor, the FZ8, but get fairly decent results (given the limitations). Anyways, with a bit more detail, I might be able to help.
All the best
Hobbes

Jim M. · Oct 12, 2009

Hi Chris,

I have the FZ18 also. Your photo does not look like a noise problem to me. I think it is more slow shutter speed.

The FZ18 is really a good light camera. I only expect good photos when it's sunny out. I also limit the ISO to 200 when I'm looking for quality shots. However, you can get some decent results at higher ISOs via postprocessing using noise reduction software, e.g. Neat Image. When it's cloudy out, I mostly just think in terms of record shots. I do recommend the teleconverter you suggested, however. I bought one and pretty much use it all the time.

Hope this helps,
Jim

ChrisLuv · Oct 12, 2009

Hobbes - I don't use digital zoom, but generally use optical zoom maxed out. I use the maximum size 8M.

Jim - I'll take a look at Neat Image, sounds useful. Like you I wonder if its a light problem, however the majority of my shots end up like - the light never seems quite right to get a decent photo.

Perhaps I'm asking too much, I want to zoom to maximum and then crop to the subject which might be a small area. See another photo - again cropped to 25% of original area - this one 1/1000 shutter speed, f4.2, bright sunlight.

Is this photo par for the course or can I get better in these conditions?

Chris

EDIT: PS Thanks for taking the time to reply - much appreciated

njlarsen · Oct 12, 2009

The last photo is probably close to par for the course. What level of noise reduction is your camera set at? I have lowered my setting as far as possible because I find some noise more acceptable than areas such as feathers looking like painted with an spotty airbrush.

On image one, I think you have both movement and image noise problems. This looks like iso 400 to iso 800 on my camera. Could you look at the camera information for this image and look at what it says? I would like to know shutter speed, actual iso chosen, and aperture.

Regarding the TCon you are thinking about, I am not the expert there, but it cannot give you more light for cleaner background. It can, however, in good light mean that you have to crop less and have more pixels to play with.

Niels

Swissboy · Oct 12, 2009

ChrisLuv said:
...... but generally use optical zoom maxed out. ......

Chris

That may actually be part of the problem. These cameras lose some contrast towards the longest zoom setting. Maybe, with a converter and the zoom setting reduced, you'd get more contrast? But I have no experience with a converter.

h14nha · Oct 12, 2009

Hi Chris,
I agree with Jim, it looks like your shutter speed was too slow on your first pic, when I had my FZ18 I was only really happy with my results when the sun was high in the sky.
Saying that, I had some good pictures of Red Kites in flight from last year which I would have posted for you to see if I wasn't so stupid and deleted them from my laptop, ooops !
You might like to try a tripod though you'll see how much that will improve your picture quality as you seem to be using the correct settings.
The FZ18 was known for noise issues so good light will be your friend, but nonetheless, I wish I hadn't sold mine when I upgraded to a DSLR because it still is a great camera.
Good luck
Ian

Jim M. · Oct 12, 2009

ChrisLuv said:
Is this photo par for the course or can I get better in these conditions?

As Niels points out, make sure you have noise reduction set to lowest setting when you can shoot at 100-200 ISO. I use maximum zoom all the time (& limit to 3mp) here are some of my shots: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1130683#post1130683

I think the problem in the last photo is that your just too far away to get good detail (at least with this camera). Cropping is no substitute for being close or getting a teleconverter (and a TC does not reduce the amount of available light--I know that's counterintuitive but it's true). Also, it would probably be better with a bit of postprocess sharpening.

Best,
Jim

njlarsen · Oct 13, 2009

J. Moore said:
and a TC does not reduce the amount of available light--I know that's counterintuitive but it's true.

Best,
Jim

I agree (as long as we are talking P&S TCs), but it also does not increase the light levels, which is what I a little clumsily tried to say in my post

Also, it would probably be better with a bit of postprocess sharpening.

so true

Niels

ChrisLuv · Oct 13, 2009

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like I'm about there, though I'll check my noise reduction setting - I have a feeling its set quite high.

Being in the Uk means not as many sunny days as I'd like :-(, but I think a TC will probably help get the results I'm looking for (light not withstanding) without too many £'s spent.

Also need to work on my fieldcraft to enable to get closer without disturbing them....

I agree on image 1, I think the light is too bad to expect a decent photo, it was ISO 400 and shutter speed was 1/20, f5.0. A tripod is such conditions would no doubt help.

Thanks,
Chris

Jim M. · Oct 13, 2009

ChrisLuv said:
I agree on image 1, I think the light is too bad to expect a decent photo, it was ISO 400 and shutter speed was 1/20, f5.0. A tripod is such conditions would no doubt help.

I'm surprised it looks as good as it does given the very slow shutter speed. For quality bird photos, I find 1/500 or higher is best, though with stationary birds 1/200 might be good enough.

Best,
Jim

RJM · Oct 13, 2009

I think you are expecting way too much from the camera. A superzoom can give very good quality prints on bright/clear days at distances up to 25m for most birds. At 500mm focal length, the rule of thumb is you to shoot non-moving targets at 1/500sec or faster. But with image stabilization you can get 2-3 stops advantage, so shooting as slow as 1/125sec can be OK with 1/60sec an absolute minimum. You only have 8mp to work with so heavy cropping is not really a good substitute for getting closer.

If getting closer is just not possible on poor light days, a dslr with a big 500mm prime or super telephoto digiscoping kit will be a better choice.

good luck,
Rick

njlarsen · Oct 13, 2009

My experience with P&S superzooms is that it is possible to get surprisingly good shots at slow shutter by taking photos in bursts. One of five (or 10 or more) might just be that much better because your breeding pattern and the bird freezing for a split second works together. However, there will be an awful lot of bad photos to go through if you use that strategy, and nothing beats a faster shutter. (one of the few advantages of a P&S is the lack of a mirror slap, so the strategy does not work well with a dSLR according to a different thread).

On my FZ18, it is extremely rare I use anything except full open aperture, and especially not on a dark morning.

Cheers
Niels

FZ18 Noise Problem (1 Viewer)

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