Monties Harrier - educational question - France (1 Viewer)

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 8, 2015

• #1

This attractive Monties Harrier flew over the Soulor. There is no boa to speak of although quite a lot of white forming a chin strap - I can't really find reference to this.

In some of the pictures there doesn't seem to be a frame around the primaries - third fourth and fifth (although latter two only right wing).

There does seem to be a dark 'boomerang' around carpal area. I can't seem to find this on google images for juv monties.

There doesn't seem to be any streaking on the flanks. should I be able to see these at this range.

The barring is irregular. A bit of a gap in fact - am i looking at an older bird.

As stated this is more educational - which features take 'preference' when id'ing bird. As usual i'm expecting this to be a 'classic' bird but want to understand them more....

 

Attachments

• 
  IMG_0557 (2).JPG

  64.3 KB · Views: 79
• 
  IMG_0560 (2).JPG

  48.1 KB · Views: 90
• 
  IMG_0555 (3).JPG

  64.5 KB · Views: 106
• 
  IMG_0556 (2).JPG

  65.3 KB · Views: 72
• 
  IMG_0558 (2).JPG

  62 KB · Views: 108

K

KGS

Well-known member

• Sep 8, 2015

• #2

I think this must be a 1cy Montague's. For this species the very dark secondaries are is possible only in this plumage I think. Primary pattern looks fine for Monty and e.g. a lot of black at the tips of outer ones is not good for Pallid (of which there currently are high numbers in southern Scandinavia)

 

tconzemi

Tom

Supporter

• Sep 8, 2015

• #3

First age them:
Orange tinged body without any streaking and dark secondaries : juvenile
Streaked body and more or less heavily marked axillaries : adult
So this is a juvenile so you check wings and head pattern
Head pattern for Monty: lots of white around eyes, ill defined collar and no boa, collar never joining below (always in Pallid, sometimes less boa)
Fingers all dark good for Monty but much overlap, tips of inner primaries good point but sometimes difficult to assess
Never look at one feature and if so collar joining below probsbly best

 

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 8, 2015

• #4

Added a line to this

I was looking at this boomerang. Is this supposed to be a black boomerang or a solid white boomerang around the carpal - which it isn't in this...

 

Attachments

• 
  IMG_0557 (2).JPG

  78.9 KB · Views: 65

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 8, 2015

• #5

another line - the white seems to form a chin strap so meets underneath

re tconzemi
(always in Pallid, sometimes less boa)

 

Attachments

• 
  IMG_0558 (2).JPG

  74.1 KB · Views: 57

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 8, 2015

• #6

less black on primaries....

 

Attachments

• 
  IMG_0555 (3).JPG

  78.7 KB · Views: 49

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 8, 2015

• #7

I always thought this was juv but the barring in the primaries isn't consistent - like a hole...

 

tconzemi

Tom

Supporter

• Sep 8, 2015

• #8

rosbifs said:

Added a line to this

I was looking at this boomerang. Is this supposed to be a black boomerang or a solid white boomerang around the carpal - which it isn't in this...

Click to expand...

In pallid white boomerang without barring

 

tconzemi

Tom

Supporter

• Sep 8, 2015

• #9

rosbifs said:

another line - the white seems to form a chin strap so meets underneath

re tconzemi
(always in Pallid, sometimes less boa)

Click to expand...

Nope, that's an artefact, but there is a lot of white in the face
In Pallid it would be a clear collar running all around with a boa behind and a dark chin strap reachibg the bill

 

tconzemi

Tom

Supporter

• Sep 8, 2015

• #10

rosbifs said:

less black on primaries....

Click to expand...

Not at all visible here but well visible in other pictures

 

tconzemi

Tom

Supporter

• Sep 8, 2015

• #11

rosbifs said:

I always thought this was juv but the barring in the primaries isn't consistent - like a hole...

Click to expand...

Barring in primaries is extremely variable, but very typical wing shape with bulging secondaries all with fresh white tips, very diagnostic in almost all raptors

 

JANJ

Well-known member

• Sep 9, 2015

• #12

A paler version of one of the pic showing pattern a little better. Also notice the longer outermost p10 as apposed to shorter in Pallid, not always easy to judge in photos due to varies angles. In MH it falls roughly in line with p6, while in PH roughly with p5.

 

Attachments

• 
  PSX_20150909_064554.jpg

  50.9 KB · Views: 78

rosbifs

PutAin STOP

• Sep 9, 2015

• #13

Brilliant explanations - getting close to these birds is not an everyday occurance here....

Thank you KGS Tconzemi and JANJ. Sometimes reading guide books isn't enough (and yes I did read Forsman) you need to speak to the experts to get a clearer picture!!