Zeiss 85 TFL and Baader zoom (1 Viewer)

I´ve just taken delivery of the above, and have been out and about comparing them to my Nikon ED82A with zoom, but apologies, I don´t do technical, my comparisons are of the "I like it/I don´t like it" order....so if you want tekkie, read no further. I was musing about FOV´s of various zooms here on BF, when a kind offer arose from a BF Gentleman...from whom I got the Zeiss 85 (with Baader 30x and Zeiss Zoom), and ordered a Baader zoom just for the hell of it from Modern Astronomy (UK).

Initial impressions are very favourable. I always appreciated the sharpness and brightness of the ED82A plus zoom, but could never get on with the narrow FOV, and found I only used it on very rare occasions with stationary birds. (No good for seawatching, then). So my default was 30xw. Constantly frustrated with ep changes on seawatches, I hankered after a usable "default" zoom with good FOV.

The Zeiss/Baader is bright to the max, as bright as the Nikon up to about 60x (after which the Nikon darkens sharply). A tad narrow in FOV at lower mags, but wonderfully wide (for a zoom) from about 30x up. (I say "about", because I have no idea how to measure FOV....I reckon my Baader is giving me about 20x to just above 60x).

Negatives: The Baader zoom is not quite as sharp as the Nikon. Also, the edges of Zeiss/Baader are softer and the field not quite-as-flat. However, this doesn´t matter as extra field is welcome, even if the edges thereof are softer. (I´d prefer softer edges to no edges at all).

As regards colour, etc., I haven´t really had time to compare but to my untrained eye there are no issues in the comparison that bother me. Edge-CA is minimal in both set-ups, and has to be searched-for.

I really have to take the Zeiss/Baader on a serious seawatch to figure it out, but so far I´m very happy with it. (Just as well ´cos I´ve sold my Nikon). As regards fixed mag eyepieces, the Zeiss came not only with a Zeiss zoom, but also with a Baader 30x. I haven´t used either for reasons that embarrass me....I foolishly put the o-ring adapter for the Baader 30x into the scope, and can´t get it out, so I can´t use either the Baader 30x or the Zeiss zoom and compare these to their Nikon equivalents. No matter, I´ll sort it out next week and meanwhile, I would really, really love if the Zeiss plus Baader Zoom became my "default"...the ultimate question for me is not one of sharpness or colour rendition etc. (these are all very fine instruments with hair´s-breadths separating them in any one area), it is one of FOV. If I can seawatch with the Baader zoom, I´m happy. I´m very grateful to Frank D and to others who advised me, and especially to the BF member who sold me the Zeiss....I don´t want to name him in case he wouldn´t like it, but a thorough gent who gave me a great deal and kindly advised me throughout. Now that´s what BF is all about.

Sancho,

Congratulations on the new optics. I'll try to keep the geekiness to a minimum and just mention two things. The Baader zoom is just as sharp as the Nikon zoom. If the Baader/Zeiss combination is less sharp than your old Nikon scope at the same magnification, then the difference is in the scope optics, not the eyepieces. Also remember the Baader zoom is not water/fog proof like the Zeiss zoom eyepiece. The scope body won't be affected because it's sealed, but seawatching especially in bad weather could get moisture into the eyepiece.

Henry

Sancho,

I am glad you posted your experiences. I was genuinely curious to hear your comparisons. The two issues that you mentioned which caught my attention (and which Henry picked up on) were the issue of apparent sharpness and the edge distortion. I am contemplating selling my Zeiss zoom in favor of the Baader. No offense intended to Henry, but I am concerned I am not going to be as satisfied with the Baader. The two issue the Zeiss suffers from are the color representation and the edge distortion. If the Baader addresses those two issues without sacrificing apparent sharpness, contrast, CA control, etc.... then I would be a happy camper. Only you and Henry have both eyepieces on hand...and you cannot really do the comparison right now because of the previously mentioned reasons.

Also, how much of a difference in apparent field of view is there between the Zeiss and the Baader at lower magnifications?

henry link said:

Sancho,

Congratulations on the new optics. I'll try to keep the geekiness to a minimum and just mention two things. The Baader zoom is just as sharp as the Nikon zoom. If the Baader/Zeiss combination is less sharp than your old Nikon scope at the same magnification, then the difference is in the scope optics, not the eyepieces.
Henry

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Thanks Henry, they probably are equal in sharpness and what is happening is I feel I "have to" differentiate between them. Also, my observations are totally unreliable, sometimes I can´t even compare optics properly side-by-side because my mind doesn´t "remember" what I´ve seen more than a few seconds. I know I should take it seriously and get copies of those USAF charts you guys often mention. A problem has to be really, really obvious for me to notice it (which means alpha optics are wasted on me).

Frank - I´ll keep you posted as soon as I sort out the o-ring problem!:t:

Update: I just "star-tested" the Diascope/Baader and the Nikon/zoom combos, and both performed equally well...i.e. brilliantly!!! So I reckon you were right, Henry...

Also, I managed to extract the "o-ring" from the Diascope, so now I can play with the Zeiss zoom and the Baader 30xw, all week if I want to! (Except for lesser demands on my attention, like work, family etc.)

Sancho said:

Update: I just "star-tested" the Diascope/Baader and the Nikon/zoom combos, and both performed equally well...i.e. brilliantly!!! So I reckon you were right, Henry...

Also, I managed to extract the "o-ring" from the Diascope, so now I can play with the Zeiss zoom and the Baader 30xw, all week if I want to! (Except for lesser demands on my attention, like work, family etc.)

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I greatly look forward to further comments Sancho. The Baader/Zeiss zoom comparison is a situation I find myself in as well.

Sancho said:

Update: I just "star-tested" the Diascope/Baader and the Nikon/zoom combos, and both performed equally well...i.e. brilliantly!!

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Sancho,

I guess your earlier impression that the Zeiss would not be quite as "sharp" as the ED82 might very well be due to Nikon's exceptionally good contrast. You may see just as good star test & resolution performance, but still the Nikon just "feels" sharper. As we have learnt from Henry and Kimmo, the large image reversal prism of the Nikon Fieldscopes simply avoids many problems, which require expensive and careful compensation in other designs.

I have no doubts about the brilliance of the Baader/Zeiss combo, but knowing that you switched from the Nikon 30xMCII to 30xDS because of a couple of extra ER-millimeters, I can't help feeling that we may one day see yet another expensive switch for more ER - and FOV. ... Hope I am wrong this time.

Best regards,

Ilkka :t:

iporali said:

Sancho,

I have no doubts about the brilliance of the Baader/Zeiss combo, but knowing that you switched from the Nikon 30xMCII to 30xDS because of a couple of extra ER-millimeters, I can't help feeling that we may one day see yet another expensive switch for more ER - and FOV. ... Hope I am wrong this time.

Best regards,

Ilkka :t:

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:-ODarn! I´ll have to stop posting my obsessive and fickle switching....it´s all coming back to haunt me! I think I´ll have to stick with the Zeiss/Baader combo now for at least a decade, so I better like it and keep liking it......

I've just bought a Baader zoom (to attach to my Celestron 100ED).

I also bought an eyepiece t adaptor but can't work out how to attach it to my t-ring.

Does anybody know how to do this?

inags said:

I've just bought a Baader zoom (to attach to my Celestron 100ED).

I also bought an eyepiece t adaptor but can't work out how to attach it to my t-ring.

Does anybody know how to do this?

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I´m afraid I don´t, inags. Maybe it´s like the o-ring for my Baader, which slips over the tube-like extension on the eyepiece that goes into the scope, and tightens onto the ep by means of a tiny allen key? (Sorry I don´t even know the correct vocabulary for these bits). Can you post us your opinions of the Baader zoom when you get it up and running?

Sancho said:

:-ODarn! I´ll have to stop posting my obsessive and fickle switching....it´s all coming back to haunt me!

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I think it was perfectly OK to look for more ER than you had with your MCII eyepiece if you thought it was necessary. My concern is that if you don't have enough ER now with the Baader (or the Zeiss) zoom you may lose the benefits of wide FOV because of vignetting or discomfort.

Ilkka the Haunter :t:

Sancho said:

I´m afraid I don´t, inags. Maybe it´s like the o-ring for my Baader, which slips over the tube-like extension on the eyepiece that goes into the scope, and tightens onto the ep by means of a tiny allen key? (Sorry I don´t even know the correct vocabulary for these bits). Can you post us your opinions of the Baader zoom when you get it up and running?

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Found the problem - wrong adaptor.

I'll post my opinion when I've been out with it.

inags said:

Found the problem - wrong adaptor.

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Glad you sorted it, inags. Yeah, the Baader comes with lots of pretty bits of metal and I´ve no idea what most of them are for. Hope you like it!:t:

I put an order in for a Baader to use on the Diascope 65. It won't be in until Halloween so I have some time to wait. I hope to do a similar comparison with the Zeiss and Baader.

Update: I had my Zeiss 85 and Baader Zoom plus Baader 30x out "in the field" today. I am really delighted with them. The FOV at higher zoom mags is amazing, and I can see no significant drop either in sharpness or brightness when I zoom up. At lower mags, the FOV is tight, but when I get up to about 30x, it´s fine. (I leave it at about 22-24mm on the zoom). Not as wide, obviously, as the 30x fixed ep, I´d say about 20% less FOV, but the ability to zoom right up and not lose much FOV is absolutely stunning. The zoom ep is also very easy to use...nice wide control ring, and you can turn the whole barrel around to position the click-stop markings wherever you want (I like to have them on the left-hand side of the barrel). I think I can live with this as a "stay-on-scope" zoom (but I´ve been known to change my mind before....).

The Baader 30x fixed ep has a phenomenally wide ocular, wider even than the Nikon DS 30xw. It makes more than a "walk-in" view...it feels as though your eyeball has fallen into the eyepiece. Wonderful. It doesn´t have a twist-up eyecup, however, it has a rubber ring that sits down over the rim and removes, presumably for attaching more ep´s or cameras (the outer rim of the ep, when you remove the rubber rim-cover, is threaded). This means it´s wonderful when wearing glasses, but I reckon without glasses you´d need to tape a little bicycle inner-tube or something around the rim for a makeshift eyecup. Maybe in really dark conditions on a seawatch or whatever, this Baader 30x would best the Baader zoom.

On neither ep could I find any appreciable CA, suffice to say that what I could find, I had to look hard for, so it doesn´t bother me. Colour rendition seemed very natural, not as contrasty as my Nikon perhaps, but faithful to the light and colour that was "out there", as far as my (subjective) observations could manage.

(Sorry I can´t do a "technical" report, all you get are my impressions which are a bit vague.)