Lesser White Fronted Goose..... (1 Viewer)

StevieEvans · Jun 6, 2005

But I did see there is one in Notts today as the same location as a Red

Seen photos of this on surfbirds, it looks like a proper little runt, in comparison with 'our' bird

"Chinese Black-backed Wagtail" (Motacilla alba leucopsis) after this spring's Seaham record, but it is probably fair to assume that when these were originally observed they did not inspire that much excitement - subspecies ticks generally don't! But the vagrancy feat was equal in each case...

It was the "Its a Must See Bird" text that got me there......... whats the probability of that turning up..... or indeed the unpresented mid winter Wilsons Phal this year too.....?

Surely, the search for the improbable & unexpected is what a lot of birding is all about..
SE

Jos Stratford · Jun 7, 2005

Further to one of my posts earlier, I thought it might be interesting to add some information regarding goose movements this year in the Baltics (same latitude as Scotland) - as previously mentioned, there is a degree of very late migration this year and in both Lithuania and Estonia (a little to the north of me), there are STILL geese lingering and on the move.
Interestingly, there was a Barnacle Goose today in Lithuania (not a very abundant species) and a Pink-footed Goose a couple of days back in Estonia (a rarity).

WelchS · Jun 10, 2005

Jos Stratford said:
Further to one of my posts earlier, I thought it might be interesting to add some information regarding goose movements this year in the Baltics ...

Thanks for this interesting info from your side.

I get the same impression here, and there were still over 1000 Pinkfoot at Strathbeg at start of May, 200 by mid-month and a few lingering into June, together with 2 apparently healthy Whoopers. I also saw one Pinkfoot at Musselburgh on 22 May and there were some fairly late records of Barnacle and Brent on the Scottish coast as well. Perhaps these have been delayed by persisent/strong northerlies?

Anyway, I don't think the bird has been reported since 6 June (though the Barrow's seems to be resident!). Can anybody comment whether Whitefronts (in general) are ever likely to be individually identifiable on the basis of belly patch markings from one year to the next - e.g. after its summer moult, if it comes back from whereever it has gone?

Many thanks

Stephen

Steve Lister · Jun 11, 2005

StevieEvans said:
From :- RARE BIRDS DAY BY DAY PUBLISHED BY T AND AD POYSER
.....dates for L.W.F. Goose -fairburn ings 15.5.76 to 18.5.76. essex 22.6.78 to 14.8.78 and derbyshire 8.6.78

LGRE advises that at least 6 feral LWFGeese have been recorded this year.

SE.

I was the finder of the 1976 Fairburn bird and never bothered submitting it as it was obviously a feral bird, being in may and at the swan feeding layby!! I was amazed to see it included in the BBRC report, and still don't count it on my self-found list, despite it putting me up to 300.

Steve

TWM · Jun 12, 2005

Re the Strathbeg bird.It WAS a Lesser and arrived with about 20 Pinkfeet, a Greylag and a Barnacle on about 1st June.It was last seen on the evening of 5th June (to the best of my knowledge).They all left after that. The only Geese at Strathbeg now are about 4 Pinkfeet (pinged!) and a Greylag(?). The bird certainly was not tame but with such a mixture of travelling companions and the time of year it is not going on my list.

Stuart Watson · Jun 12, 2005

I seen a pair of duck on Friday which i struggled to identify due to their distance out to sea and the sunglare. I can only suggest Wigeon or Pochard, but i`ve seen them both tons of times (Winter) and they appeared darker. Definite red head on one and small white wingbar towards its back end. Any suggestions?

WelchS · Jun 16, 2005

There is now a nice article on the bird on WhitburnBirding here:

http://www.whitburnbirding.co.uk/LesserWhitefront.htm

re last two posts:

* Thanks Tim for correcting the departure date back a day to 5 June - my mistake!

* I've had some discussions with Stuart and we have clarified that his birds were Wigeon - still present at Musselburgh in late May (though clearly of no relevance to the LWF discussion!).

Re my belly patches Q:

Stephen Welch said:
"Can anybody comment whether Whitefronts (in general) are ever likely to be individually identifiable on the basis of belly patch markings from one year to the next"

- no response, so am I asking a silly question or is the answer a genuine mystery!? :h?:

Thanks

Stephen

Edward woodwood · Jun 16, 2005

it reads okay until the bizarre jump in logic right at the end to reach a conclusion of a tickable bird

Tim

StevieEvans · Jun 16, 2005

Tim Allwood said:
it reads okay until the bizarre jump in logic right at the end to reach a conclusion of a tickable bird

Tim

Tim, Thats isnt how most local birders have interpreted it....

IMHO the Conclusion is "we'll never know for sure, but we'd sure like to think it was a real one"

SE.

Edward woodwood · Jun 16, 2005

StevieEvans said:
Tim, Thats isnt how most local birders have interpreted it....

IMHO the Conclusion is "we'll never know for sure, but we'd sure like to think it was a real one"

SE.

It says:

The true origin of this bird will never be known, but the balance of evidence seems to favour a ‘reintroduction scheme’ origin rather than an escaped collection bird.

surely the balance of evidence does no such thing...?

Tim

StevieEvans · Jun 16, 2005

Tim Allwood said:
It says:

The true origin of this bird will never be known, but the balance of evidence seems to favour a ‘reintroduction scheme’ origin rather than an escaped collection bird.

surely the balance of evidence does no such thing...?

Tim

Tim,
I respect & value your opinion as i know you is a right bright lad.

My interpretation leaves me uncertain & therfore wanting to learn more.

Thats what these debates are all about arent they..? opening your mind to the possibilities of a differing opinion being a valid one... especially on a topic where there isnt a definitive yes/no answer.
SE.
(im also writing an article on this occurance for our club website & bulletin)

Mark Newsome · Jun 17, 2005

Hi Tim,
As the 'author' of the notes on the Whitburn Birding website, I'll jump in to defend my comments!
In my experience, obvious escaped Lesser White-fronts hang around, move locally from locality to locality and do not shoot up to the north of Scotland in a matter of a few days. The bird was quite wary (this was also noted at Musselburgh) and in immaculate plumage. My 'balance of evidence' weighed up an individual from the increasing winter population just over the channel vs an obvious escape. There's been no reported escaped Lesser White-fronts in NE England recently, so thought it a fair chance that it was a late returning bird from Holland. There'd also been late Pink-foot and Barnacles moving north around the same time off Whitburn (but we'll never know of their real origins too...)
I've never commented on it being tickable - that's up to birders' own consciences (just as quite a few birders will be struggling with their conscience on whether to tick the Red Kites they see in reintroduction areas). No-one will ever know for sure, but it seems to be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to immediately class birds like this as an escape and not keep a bit of an open mind. It certainly hasn't acted like a classic escape.
Birders in Notts. must have a worse dilemma - Redhead, Bufflehead & Lsr Scaup within a few years of each other, all happily ticked by everyone as genuine birds. And also lots of plastic wildfowl which everyone ignores. Mmmm - interesting theme, if it stays and is twitched and lots of birders need it for a UK tick, it stands a lot better chance of being viewed as a wild bird...

Big Phil · Jun 17, 2005

Too be fair this goose is no more dodgy then the Barrow's Goldeneye.

Edward woodwood · Jun 17, 2005

all previous records in late spring / summer considered escapes by BBRC etc

this one 'maybe' not

it may be a wild bird but hardly on the 'balance of evidence' above?

the fact that most birders need it shouldn't influence the record (although it stands a good chance of getting thru the IQ40 Club 'vetting' procedure, but then so does Pingu if certain IQ40 Club folks saw him on their TV....unringed and wary)

Tim

Edward woodwood · Jun 17, 2005

Big Phil said:
Too be fair this goose is no more dodgy then the Barrow's Goldeneye.

is that a supporting factor then?

and i think it is a 'bit' more dodgy

Tim

Big Phil · Jun 17, 2005

Tim Allwood said:
is that a supporting factor then?

and i think it is a 'bit' more dodgy

Tim

I'd stick money on them both being out of lock-ups. The Barrow's is a cracker though. Well worth a 10 mile bike ride.

Mark Newsome · Jun 17, 2005

I know what you mean when you say "the fact that most birders need it shouldn't influence the record" - maybe it doesn't when viewed by BBRC (hopefully), but it certainly influences peoples opinion before that (Lee's 400 club and Birding World included). I didn't see the Richardson's Canada Goose in Lincs. the other year being immediately thrown out as an escape, even though it was on it's own and long staying. Probably it was a new bird for a lot of people and it didn't want to be seen as a 'waste of petrol money'

I'm only after a fair trial, gov'nor!

StevieEvans · Jun 17, 2005

Tim Allwood said:
all previous records in late spring / summer considered escapes by BBRC etc

this one 'maybe' not

it may be a wild bird but hardly on the 'balance of evidence' above?

the fact that most birders need it shouldn't influence the record (although it stands a good chance of getting thru the IQ40 Club 'vetting' procedure, but then so does Pingu if certain IQ40 Club folks saw him on their TV....unringed and wary)

Tim

Tim,
Nice to see this thread being maintained as an intelligent debate.
" No wonder so many top birders dont bother with BF" (recent paraphrased quote from T.Allwood)

SteveE.

Mark Newsome · Jun 17, 2005

Just had a browse through previous accepted BBRC records. I wonder how the East Yorkshire one in 1996 managed to scrape through? The areas it visited (up to mid April) are hardly goose hotspots (other than Greylags). A Red-breasted Goose toured the same areas in March 1984 and got through BBRC too. I wonder how many members of the committee were from Yorkshire when these were considered?
I'm still going to submit the Boldon Flats bird to BBRC for them to carefully consider... along with a few quid in the envelope so they can all buy themselves a drink should they reach a satisfactory conclusion! B

StevieEvans · Jun 17, 2005

Alrite Mark,
I'll chip in too....
B

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