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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Once you have Alpha you can never Backa? (3 Viewers)

Same here. The SV's may be the pinnacle but the weight keeps me from getting a pair. My 300 gram reverse porro's are giving me extreme pleasure, and they get more used time than any of my (now former) bins combined.
I like the "hair-on-fire" bit; not sure what it means, but if it's something like:
"I love the smell of burning hair in the morning" ( Coppola revisited), I guess that's what I'm experiencing right now.

Don't know about Apple Ipads, not interested in that kind of sport.

Best regards,

Ronald

Ronald

I will give the credit for the "hair on fire" ditty to Cameron Cox who originally posted it in the 7x42 Leica thread, and made me smile while reading it. I also enjoyed Rohn's little witticism on his 15x60 Nobilems "that verily fire shoots out the back". Somehow, I just thought to myself - hang on and enjoy the ride.;)

Tom
 
I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the only people who seem to be complaining are the alpha and SV owners when everyone else does not agree with their assessment on their latest optical nirvana, or the need for high dollar optics.

Tom

"Maybe what I thought you would see, is not what you think you saw".

OK, list a non-alpha that is commonly accepted to be as good as any alpha (take your pick...Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, or Nikon). I looked and could not find one.
 
OK, list a non-alpha that is commonly accepted to be as good as any alpha (take your pick...Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, or Nikon). I looked and could not find one.

List an alpha that is "commonly accepted" $1000-$1500 better than a Gold Ring HD, Pentax DCF Ed, Meopta, Vortex Razor HD, Steiner Preregrine XP, Bushnell Elite, or a Zen ED2.

Commonly accepted by who?
 
I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the only people who seem to be complaining are the alpha and SV owners when everyone else does not agree with their assessment on their latest optical nirvana, or the need for high dollar optics.

Tom

"Maybe what I thought you would see, is not what you think you saw".

In fairness, I don't think Dennis was implying that one has to spend lots of money or buy SV's to have excellent glass. I interpret his opening post as asking if it's possible to go back to using mid-quality binoculars, having used "excellent" ones, whatever brand, model or price. There was a thread asking just the same thing some years ago, but I can't find it. Obviously what one judges to be "excellent" is a highly subjective thing, and so far SV's, SE's, EII's, HGL's, FL's and IS's have been mentioned. One can get a reasonably good view of most birds with a pair of 20-euro Bressers, and if that satisfies you, you're lucky. But if you've used SV/SE/EII/HGL/FL/IS or whatever your fave "best bino" is, would you be happy to give it back for a pair of Bressers? As a previous poster said, it makes sense to get something that will give you the best views available if you're going to invest a lot of your time and effort in trying to derive satisfaction from your hobby. Currently you can do this at many price-points, depending on your requirements, from 300 euro for a pair of EII's from Hong Kong, to 1,700 euro for SV/FL/HGL etc.
The only way to resolve the differences of opinion above is to a) eliminate them in favour of tolerance, allowing each aficionado his or her favourite personal choice, or b) eliminate them in favour of persuading everyone to use exactly the same make and model of binocular, thereby obviating the need for difference of opinion. The latter option would make for a duller world, and no binocular forum.
 
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List an alpha that is "commonly accepted" $1000-$1500 better than a Gold Ring HD, Pentax DCF Ed, Meopta, Vortex Razor HD, Steiner Preregrine XP, Bushnell Elite, or a Zen ED2.

Commonly accepted by who?
Price is not part of the equation. If there's a concensus that one, or all, of the above is an alpha-class bin then you've redefined the alpha class. Is that your opinion?

Price relates to value, not quality. Personally, I think the Zen ED 8X42 models are the best roof value around...at least they were a year or two ago. I've seen all the others mentioned and I just wasn't impressed enough to purchase.
 
Steve,

so your opinion is based on what a single dealer said and a couple of people in the internet you don't know personally?

Steve

I did not post that as a valid sample, but what the dealer saw is from a far larger sample that yours I realize that is anectdotal. I stated in plain english that I really had no idea of the breakdown. If you trouble yourself, the RB effect in the SV is pretty well documented, again if you trouible yourself to look, there are lots more than a couple of people making those posts. Oh yeah, my opinion is largely based on what my own eyes tell me too. Again, I have no idea of what the exact percentage of effected users really is, and frankly don't much care. I still never associated any internet phenomena to my buddy either.
 
I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the only people who seem to be complaining are the alpha and SV owners when everyone else does not agree with their assessment on their latest optical nirvana, or the need for high dollar optics.

Tom

"Maybe what I thought you would see, is not what you think you saw".

I have bought cheaper optics in the past but I have never been satisfied with the binoculars. You buy countless sub $500.00 binoculars and return them and buy another to get a little bit more performance for your dollar. How much do you spend sending all those cheap binoculars back and how much time do you waste messing around with them. The way I look at it buy the Swarovski SV and pay the $2000.00 and now you have the best optics or nearly the best optics plus you have an insurance policy for the rest of your life. If anything happens to your binoculars Swarovski is going to fix it or take care of you. Is Bushnell or Olympus going to do that five years from now? To me it is worth the initial investment and you know from then on you will always have great binoculars. You are not just buying the binoculars with Swarovski you are buying the company with all their service and expertise. Does any other company have the customer service they have? I told them I didn't like the strap that came with the Swarovision. You know what they did? They sent me a brand new older style strap and their binocular harness FREE! I didn't even have to pay the shipping. They sent me a harness because they thought I would like it! Now some of you have had experiences like that with Swarovski. How much is that kind of customer service worth? Would Zeiss or Nikon do that? Some of you come forward and relate the customer service experience you have had with Swarovski. That's another reason to buy alpha it is a lifelong investment. You have a pair of binoculars that are going to last a long time.
 
I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the only people who seem to be complaining are the alpha and SV owners when everyone else does not agree with their assessment on their latest optical nirvana, or the need for high dollar optics.

Tom

"Maybe what I thought you would see, is not what you think you saw".

I have bought cheaper optics in the past but I have never been satisfied with the binoculars. You buy countless sub $500.00 binoculars and return them and buy another to get a little bit more performance for your dollar. How much do you spend sending all those cheap binoculars back and how much time do you waste messing around with them. The way I look at it buy the Swarovski SV and pay the $2000.00 and now you have the best optics or nearly the best optics plus you have an insurance policy for the rest of your life. If anything happens to your binoculars Swarovski is going to fix it or take care of you. Is Bushnell or Olympus going to do that five years from now? To me it is worth the initial investment and you know from then on you will always have great binoculars. You are not just buying the binoculars with Swarovski you are buying the company with all their service and expertise. Does any other company have the customer service they have? I told them I didn't like the strap that came with the Swarovision. You know what they did? They sent me a brand new older style strap and their binocular harness FREE! I didn't even have to pay the shipping. They sent me a harness because they thought I would like it! Now some of you have had experiences like that with Swarovski. How much is that kind of customer service worth? Would Zeiss or Nikon do that? Some of you come forward and relate the customer service experience you have had with Swarovski. That's another reason to buy alpha it is a lifelong investment. You have a pair of binoculars that are going to last a long time and a great company that will be there when you need them.
 
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Price is not part of the equation. If there's a concensus that one, or all, of the above is an alpha-class bin then you've redefined the alpha class. Is that your opinion?

Price relates to value, not quality. Personally, I think the Zen ED 8X42 models are the best roof value around...at least they were a year or two ago. I've seen all the others mentioned and I just wasn't impressed enough to purchase.


I've guided probably 100 deer, sheep, and antelope hunters over the past 10 years. They show up with every "alpha" you can imagine.....Fl's, SV's, SLC. SLCneu, Nikon Premier, Trinovids, Geovids, Ultravids, EL's, and some I can't remember. I've spent hours upon hours during that time stacking and comparing them side by side with my glass I recently listed. I can see everything through my Leupold GR HD's that I can see through every single "alpha' listed, every single time. While my SLC HD"s are my favorite glass ever, they are not anywhere close to $1000 superior to my GR HD's or Zen ED2"s. I've seen them all, side by side and my eyes don't lie to me....or the client when they look through them too. I've had more than one euro alpha lover admit it after seeing it for himself. I back up my opinions with first hand, in the field experience.

denco...Leupold's warranty and service are every bit as good as Swaro, and they are both world class.
 
I've guided probably 100 deer, sheep, and antelope hunters over the past 10 years. They show up with every "alpha" you can imagine.....Fl's, SV's, SLC. SLCneu, Nikon Premier, Trinovids, Geovids, Ultravids, EL's, and some I can't remember. I've spent hours upon hours during that time stacking and comparing them side by side with my glass I recently listed. I can see everything through my Leupold GR HD's that I can see through every single "alpha' listed, every single time. While my SLC HD"s are my favorite glass ever, they are not anywhere close to $1000 superior to my GR HD's or Zen ED2"s. I've seen them all, side by side and my eyes don't lie to me....or the client when they look through them too. I've had more than one euro alpha lover admit it after seeing it for himself. I back up my opinions with first hand, in the field experience.

denco...Leupold's warranty and service are every bit as good as Swaro, and they are both world class.
As your favorite, is the SLC/HD better for you than the others?
 
I've guided probably 100 deer, sheep, and antelope hunters over the past 10 years. They show up with every "alpha" you can imagine.....Fl's, SV's, SLC. SLCneu, Nikon Premier, Trinovids, Geovids, Ultravids, EL's, and some I can't remember. I've spent hours upon hours during that time stacking and comparing them side by side with my glass I recently listed. I can see everything through my Leupold GR HD's that I can see through every single "alpha' listed, every single time. While my SLC HD"s are my favorite glass ever, they are not anywhere close to $1000 superior to my GR HD's or Zen ED2"s. I've seen them all, side by side and my eyes don't lie to me....or the client when they look through them too. I've had more than one euro alpha lover admit it after seeing it for himself. I back up my opinions with first hand, in the field experience.

denco...Leupold's warranty and service are every bit as good as Swaro, and they are both world class.

Would Leupold send you a FREE new strap and a FREE new Bino-Harness without even charging shipping. Try it. Contact Leupold and tell them you don't like your strap and see if they will send you a new one. I want you to actually try it and see what their response is. Report your results here.
 
While my SLC HD"s are my favorite glass ever, they are not anywhere close to $1000 superior

As an active birder I would say that every time I raise my binoculars to my eyes and get a better view of something then that is worth something to me. Maybe only a few cents (talking US money), but certainly more than that if it's a really good view of an attractive or interesting bird, or if I can see an interesting feature of the bird more clearly. As that is every time I raise my binoculars to my eyes, it doesn't take me long to get back my $1000, and after that I am into profit ;)
 
(Wasn't there a Genesis song in the seventies about a Squonk?)

Yes there was but I hadn't heard of it until Andy Bright told me when I changed my username to this. I was actually trying to reference the song "Any major dude will tell you" by Steely Dan, as the same song seemed to be providing both a nice username, and a good "tagline" ;)
 
Would Leupold send you a FREE new strap and a FREE new Bino-Harness without even charging shipping. Try it. Contact Leupold and tell them you don't like your strap and see if they will send you a new one. I want you to actually try it and see what their response is. Report your results here.

I lost both of my objective covers and my eyepiece covers of my Gr HD"s. Leupold sent me all of it free, and also included some winged eyecups for me to try out....free. I also sent in a Leupold rifle scope for repair at the same time I sent in my Swaro riflescope to be cleaned, examined and fix the erector. Leupold's turn around time was 2 1/2 weeks, Swaro 5 weeks. The truth hurts doesn't it denco?
 
As your favorite, is the SLC/HD better for you than the others?

Mainly ergonomics, but I do give them a slight edge optically also. Just not $1000 worth for the reasons I already posted.

You euro lovers just need to get a grip. As with everything else on the planet, alpha Chinese optics are coming and coming fast. The popularity and existence of high dollar european and Japanese binos are going to be threatened. Hyundai already builds as good or better automobile than Mercedes and Toyota. Get used to it.
 
Not sure if there's a hint of "emporers cloths" going on in this thread but at a recent star party my Hawke Frontier ED's were placed before a pair of Leica's by a few guys who new little about binos but appreciated good astro scopes & eyepieces. Our Leica owner stood alone but repeated an oft ask question.. how can those be better than my £800 Leica's?
 
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