What did I miss? Terra ED??? (1 Viewer)

james holdsworth said:

Three sites have listed prices of just over $300.00, so either they are all wrong or this will really be a completely new tier of bin from Zeiss.

I should do a mea culpa for Brock, as he was right.......I cannot judge these bins based solely on price, they might just be terrific and might prove a game changer for the big three, forcing Leica / Swaro to also try to compete in the ''cheap'' category.

That said, there is something to brand ''cachet'', and it isn't snobbery but some element of uniqueness. I would really prefer not to see the blue shield everywhere I go!

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Too late! You can find the blue shield in Walmart, and the wipes are "Made in China":

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ZEISS-LENS-CLEANING-CLOTH-WIPES-LENSES-LCD-COMPUTER-CAMERA-CLEANER-NEW-/00/s/Nzg1WDc0Nw==/$%28KGrHqZ,!iYE7TiRi%28fkBPBtDmY55Q~~60_35.JPG

But then again, you wouldn't be caught dead in Walmart (unless you got trampled on Black Friday).

Yes, I took you off "The List" for the mea culpa, thanks to Elmo, who is a saint, after all. But as to the uniqueness of the blue shield, that's marketing. Is a Rolex really worth so much more than my Timex that has been taking a licking and has kept on ticking for over 20 years? I guess we'll have to ask Absolut_Beethoven to weigh in on that.

But this one I can answer. Is a Zeiss FL worth more than four times the cost of my EII simply because it has a blue shield? Not anymore!

<B>

The Terra HD looks like so many others...
http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/hunting/en_us/binoculars/terraed.html#inpagetabs-2
Check out the IPD (57.5 mm) and the narrow FOV (375) for the 8X42 model. Zeiss is known for generous IPD's and decent fields of view. Anyone want to hazard a guess where this model is manufactured?

Given today's "worldwide economy," it could be made anywhere - the requisite "made in" designation being rendered largely meaningless by today's production systems and methods. The "made in" designation only indicates where a product meets the local "made in" standards to bear that designation. Being a dinosaur, I still feel better if it says "Made in Germany" than if it says "Made in China."

brocknroller said:

Another fav oldie. All three new Zeiss 8x42s boast 18mm ER, so if most of that is useable, you could use them with sunglasses under or on top of the boardwalk. :girl:

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Yo Brock-dude. Just gettin a bit nit-picken here with you. The HT has 16 mm ER not 18 although the Conq HD and Terra ED are both 18 as you point out.

A case of making the 'starter' models easier to live with?

Roger, over and out.

Lee

St. Elmo said:

Went to the CZ site. Clicked "Nature Observation" and "Binoculars" and what to my eyes should appear... "TERRA ED"
What are they?
Where are they supposed to fit into the grand scheme?
Do we need them?
Thanks,
Mike

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This is a curious move - yes, very curious - very, very curious ........ :cat:

All the players seem neatly ensconsced in their own little dominions, and so what does 'Alpha Kingpin' :king: Zeiss do? they move their model somewhat towards what Nikon does - only problem is, Nikon's strategy is all over the place like a mad woman's sh*t ...... :eek!:

Such 'brand stretching' is fraught with high risk - carefully built 'alpha' reputations can be squandered in a moment, and for what? Thin margins? Volume headaches? Expectation woes? Management competencies mis-match risk? An overweight and underworked backend? ........

This is yooful teutonic tinkering gone mad!

Attention obviously wasn't paid to their teutonic cousins - Mercedes - and their early 'brand stretching' exploits which were initiated with barrel rolling 'A' classes! Of course the dalliance with Chrysler was short lived, and I don't think many welcome offspring were born, that's to say nothing of the one-nighter with Mitsubishi .......

Those southern Bavarian relo's have had more luck, but crucially they saved the stock of little propeller badges, and just took the 'easier' option of whacking 'Mini' with the defibrillator half a dozen times on the operating table, and shocking the iconic little Brit back to life! A stream of propeller wearing blow-ins then seemed much easier to welcome to the party - job done!

Of course, kissin'cousins Porsche have gone down the 3 tier + route, but this is a different kettle of Fischbrötchen folks!

There are possibly, m-a-y-b-e? several good business and manufacturing strategy rationale's behind this, but they must remain |:x| Verboten !!
I see nucing, nucing! .......... Hogggaaaaan!

Wunderbar !! =p ......... auf wiedersehen mein fräulein :bounce: .......... guten tag kopfschmerzen :h?: :scribe: :brains: :stuck:


Chosun :gh:

Troubador said:

Yo Brock-dude. Just gettin a bit nit-picken here with you. The HT has 16 mm ER not 18 although the Conq HD and Terra ED are both 18 as you point out.

A case of making the 'starter' models easier to live with?

Roger, over and out.

Lee

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Le Dude,

Thanks for the nitpick, gnat

I knew my old schoolmarm, Henry, would correct me if I got the numbers wrong, so I checked the specs on all three on Zeiss' Website, but apparently had a brief bout of dyslexia with the HTs. I read the wrong line. The twilight factor is 18.3. Saw that and rounded it off.

I don't know about Zeiss making the starter models easier to live with. Shouldn't the top model have at least as good if not better ER than the mid-tier and entry level models? I guess Zeiss must assume that if you can afford a $2K+ bin, you probably had LASIK surgery and don't need to wear glasses.

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brocknroller said:

Le Dude,

Thanks for the nitpick, gnat

I knew my old schoolmarm, Henry, would correct me if I got the numbers wrong, so I checked the specs on all three on Zeiss' Website, but apparently had a brief bout of dyslexia with the HTs. I read the wrong line. The twilight factor is 18.3. Saw that and rounded it off.

I don't know about Zeiss making the starter models easier to live with. Shouldn't the top model have at least as good if not better ER than the mid-tier and entry level models? I guess Zeiss must assume that if you can afford a $2K+ bin, you probably had LASIK surgery and don't need to wear glasses.

<B>

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I'm not sure about ER either, Brock.

Does increasing ER come with an optical performance compromise? If so that's an argument for Zeiss staying with their traditional 16mm on the HT, which in any case is worth 18mm in Swaro-speak.

Lee

The comments in this thread are interesting, and in many ways predictable.

Predictable first off in the degree of "snobbery" or "elitism" apparent here. "Zeiss is ordained by a higher power to only make elite level expensive binoculars intended only for those who are able to appreciate the finer things in life".

Zeiss it seems to me has produced a heck of a good binocular in the new Conquest HD...good for them. For less than $1,000 you can have a Zeiss binocular that needs not apologize to any other binocular for the view it offers, or for the apparent construction quality it contains. You also don't have to save twice as much to get it as compared to the new Victory HT either. I grant, sight unseen, the tenant that the HT is likely a better binocular than the HD.

We have heard practically since the inception of today's plethora of less expensive, yet very good glass, that these are from "posers", "re-branders" or any of several other "pejorative" terms. All lament the fact that these johnny-come-lately's have no experience and are far from anything like being a world leader in optics. Sage advice is given to avoid these. Now here we have what is obviously a world leader in Zeiss offering a still lower tier than the Conquest HD. Now suddenly Zeiss is sullying its fine name. I submit Zeiss is like any other company, they need to sell their product in order to survive.

It seems to me they have made the decision to offer the Zeiss blue badge on the Terra ED. Again, good for them. I have this silly notion that Zeiss will use their know how and expertise and may well raise the bar yet again on lower price glass. I predict is is a Zeiss design that is outsourced outside of Germany and will have strict Teutonic QC supervision. It is very likely to be a very decent lower mid priced glass. If that's not for you, then buy a Conquest HD, a Victory HT, or even a Swarovision.

Further comments reserved until after I actually have a chance to look at a Terra.

Well I for one hope the Terras sell like hot cakes or cold beer.

A successful and thriving Sports Optics Division is more likely to get investment and R&D requests approved by the board and that can only be good for the brand.

Since the Conquest HDs are made in Germany now the Terras may be built in Hungary, as was suggested by another poster, and the Hungary factory has a decent quality record.


Lee

Troubador said:

I'm not sure about ER either, Brock.

Does increasing ER come with an optical performance compromise? If so that's an argument for Zeiss staying with their traditional 16mm on the HT, which in any case is worth 18mm in Swaro-speak.

Lee

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I thought the FL's and the HT's more complex lens system might be the reason for their lower ER, but Nikon's EDG series offers high ER and generous FsOV, so I'm not sure that explains it. We'll have to get Henry, Holger, or another optics expert to weigh in on this issue.

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Troubador said:

Well I for one hope the Terras sell like hot cakes or cold beer.

A successful and thriving Sports Optics Division is more likely to get investment and R&D requests approved by the board and that can only be good for the brand.

Since the Conquest HDs are made in Germany now the Terras may be built in Hungary, as was suggested by another poster, and the Hungary factory has a decent quality record.


Lee

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Sorry Lee, but to my knowledge the Conquest HD is made by Kamakura under CZ qc.

Also, HD means High Definition and does not automaticcaly mean they used fluorite containing glass. It's only a number of meassures to improve the optics, for instance better coatings etc.

Jan

jan van daalen said:

Sorry Lee, but to my knowledge the Conquest HD is made by Kamakura under CZ qc.

Also, HD means High Definition and does not automaticcaly mean they used fluorite containing glass. It's only a number of meassures to improve the optics, for instance better coatings etc.

Jan

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Sorry, Jan, we only can go by what Zeiss says about the source of mfr.
and it says Germany, for the Conquest HD.

I am thinking you are just offering up some speculation.

Jerry

Jan is correct about the definition of "HD". It's a marketing term for the Conquests. Tells you nothing about the type of glass. So what ARE the Conquest HD lenses made of?

They're keeping that close to the vest, but it defies logic to think that the Conquest has LotuTec coatings and more advanced T* AR coatings, but doesn't include low-dispersion glass when the presumably cheaper Terra HD with MC does.

They better clarify that now that they are advertising the Terra ED with low dispersion glass, because it seems like they are giving you a choice between higher light transmission (Conquest HD) or lower chromatic aberration (Terra ED), and if you want it all in one package, then you need to buy the uber priced HT.

From the Zeiss Website:

What is the difference between FL, HD, HT and ED?

ED = Extra low Dispersion = low chromatic aberrations

HD = High Definition. HD is not a type of lens. Instead it describes the result of the ED lenses: very good resolution

FL = Fluoride Lenses; a special, high-quality sub-category of the ED lenses

HT = High Transmission = lenses by SCHOTT with very good transmission properties.

We use HT in the sense of a complete HT concept: binoculars that are based on the FL binoculars but which have extremely high levels of light transmission. VICTORY HT binoculars also have FL and HT lenses.

brocknroller said:

Too late! You can find the blue shield in Walmart, and the wipes are "Made in China":

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ZEISS-LENS-CLEANING-CLOTH-WIPES-LENSES-LCD-COMPUTER-CAMERA-CLEANER-NEW-/00/s/Nzg1WDc0Nw==/$%28KGrHqZ,!iYE7TiRi%28fkBPBtDmY55Q~~60_35.JPG

But then again, you wouldn't be caught dead in Walmart (unless you got trampled on Black Friday).

Yes, I took you off "The List" for the mea culpa, thanks to Elmo, who is a saint, after all. But as to the uniqueness of the blue shield, that's marketing. Is a Rolex really worth so much more than my Timex that has been taking a licking and has kept on ticking for over 20 years? I guess we'll have to ask Absolut_Beethoven to weigh in on that.

But this one I can answer. Is a Zeiss FL worth more than four times the cost of my EII simply because it has a blue shield? Not anymore!

<B>

Click to expand...

The zeiss wipes are made in china ? That's weird the ones we have in Singapore or at least the ones I used to have were made in Germany.

jan van daalen said:

Sorry Lee, but to my knowledge the Conquest HD is made by Kamakura under CZ qc.

Also, HD means High Definition and does not automaticcaly mean they used fluorite containing glass. It's only a number of meassures to improve the optics, for instance better coatings etc.

Jan

Click to expand...

Jan I heard from some Zeiss rep that the Conquest HD has ED but did not say it was FL glass .

Sure that Gary has said the Conquest has ED glass.....

joe101 said:

The zeiss wipes are made in china ? That's weird the ones we have in Singapore or at least the ones I used to have were made in Germany.

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They might have been made in Germany at one time, but like just about everything else mass manufactured, they are now "Made in China". They're pretty cheap. If they were "Made in Germany," they would cost a lot more and most people wouldn't buy them, because they wouldn't be competitively priced with other wipes available today. Harder to sell a premium wipe than a premium roof.

Besides the changing demographic factors I already mentioned, I think the other reason Zeiss is offering a lower priced bin is due to competition from the plethora of ED ChinBins on the market, which are getting better and better. Even former "Better Dead than Red" Hunters are now looking at ED ChinBins and thinking, do I really need a $2,400 Swaro when the ZR Prime is nearly as good and can be had for a quarter of the price? That's a lot of ammo money.

As the second tier Japanese roofs, Meoptas, and ED ChinBins keeping taking the wind of out of alpha's "sails"/sales, it makes perfect sense for the alphas to enter the same "sailboat race" than to keep trying to stay a few meters ahead with their big "yachts" and price themselves out of the market. Silverlines anyone?

<B>

james holdsworth said:

Sure that Gary has said the Conquest has ED glass.....

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Yes! :t: cue - end of speculation .......
Although, all ED glass is not created equal, so even this new 'Terra' model will have the speculators primed (no hidden message there for the clue hunters either!). I know that we at Bf have managed to pin down a few specifics in the past (HT stuff being one of the no brainers), though companies are not in the habit of giving away such vital business confidential info. If we get it well and good - bully for us! But if not, then I at least understand why ............|:x|

Steve C said:

The comments in this thread are interesting, and in many ways predictable.

Predictable first off in the degree of "snobbery" or "elitism" apparent here. "Zeiss is ordained by a higher power to only make elite level expensive binoculars intended only for those who are able to appreciate the finer things in life".

Zeiss it seems to me has produced a heck of a good binocular in the new Conquest HD...good for them. For less than $1,000 you can have a Zeiss binocular that needs not apologize to any other binocular for the view it offers, or for the apparent construction quality it contains. You also don't have to save twice as much to get it as compared to the new Victory HT either. I grant, sight unseen, the tenant that the HT is likely a better binocular than the HD.

We have heard practically since the inception of today's plethora of less expensive, yet very good glass, that these are from "posers", "re-branders" or any of several other "pejorative" terms. All lament the fact that these johnny-come-lately's have no experience and are far from anything like being a world leader in optics. Sage advice is given to avoid these. Now here we have what is obviously a world leader in Zeiss offering a still lower tier than the Conquest HD. Now suddenly Zeiss is sullying its fine name. I submit Zeiss is like any other company, they need to sell their product in order to survive.

It seems to me they have made the decision to offer the Zeiss blue badge on the Terra ED. Again, good for them. I have this silly notion that Zeiss will use their know how and expertise and may well raise the bar yet again on lower price glass. I predict is is a Zeiss design that is outsourced outside of Germany and will have strict Teutonic QC supervision. It is very likely to be a very decent lower mid priced glass. If that's not for you, then buy a Conquest HD, a Victory HT, or even a Swarovision.

Further comments reserved until after I actually have a chance to look at a Terra.

Click to expand...

Steve,

Admittedly I've only skimmed this thread (unless the speculatin' is seriously funny and/or insightful - I really ain't in the market thesedays......=), but I wasn't getting that ("snobbery") ......

Firstly, this could be great for consumers, although the spec /form holds no appeal for me (not even a wide field 8x, and only 14mm ER on the 10x, also the weight on both, while lighter, is still over what I would like ...... just sayin' is all).

I agree with you on the Conquest HD - it's a bit of a market sledgehammer - goal! (about the only shortcoming I can see, and many others have commented on too is the weight - too heavy for a nice birding bin). If it was me sitting either side of the boardroom table I would have just shoved the very nice HD optics in a CFRP body - dropping the weight way down, fiddled with the styling /skin, and marketing a bit, and shazzam! Rampant 'value player' erosion stabilised, and new fields layed down ......

But consumers are one thing, and business is another (strangely enough?!). Will the new bin end up being a 'Terra' in the market? Or just a dilution nightmare for the fine Conquest HD. The die is cast now, so we shall see ........
What I, (and what I interpreted others as saying) was that strategically this business model tack is strange stuff for 'Alpha' Zeiss. Mercedes Benz is not Hyundai and vice-versa. Although as I said before, there may be valid business reasons providing some justification - Nobody knows if that's the case for sure unless they're part of the Senior Exec. at Zeiss. So I for one am not going to let the facts get in the way of a good story :brains: .........speculators on your marks, get set, ............ !!

Even though similarly to you, Brock makes a good point below about the wider market pressures from the ED ChinBins, your Hyundai still ain't a Merc (although it's really something to watch, how those clever little Koreans are pushing the Tuetonic Titans so hard - isn't it. Memo: someone at Toyota hire some Hyundai stylists pronto !!). Same game, different halves ...... although, I think the Zeiss suits will pull it all together with more internal consistency that Nikon (that's not saying a great deal though), however the move carries huge risk - already to me, I feel that the 'Terra' spec is neither here nor there - no clear parameter winner - just 'ordinariness'.

Folks! The game is afoot ........ but then again, so is the thing on the end of my leg !! Enjoy B

brocknroller said:

........Besides the changing demographic factors I already mentioned, I think the other reason Zeiss is offering a lower priced bin is due to competition from the plethora of ED ChinBins on the market, which are getting better and better. Even former "Better Dead than Red" Hunters are now looking at ED ChinBins and thinking, do I really need a $2,400 Swaro when the ZR Prime is nearly as good and can be had for a quarter of the price? That's a lot of ammo money.......

<B>

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btw, Brock! leave the business of being young to the young! You're demographic take was how shall we say ....... 'old-fashioned'! :hippy:


Chosun :gh:

jan van daalen said:

Sorry Lee, but to my knowledge the Conquest HD is made by Kamakura under CZ qc.

Also, HD means High Definition and does not automaticcaly mean they used fluorite containing glass. It's only a number of meassures to improve the optics, for instance better coatings etc.

Jan

Click to expand...

Hi Jan

Your comment about Kamakura is interesting.
Here is what CZ say on their website:

Made in Germany

A revolution in design, ergonomics and optics. The perfect “Made in Germany” all-rounder combines ZEISS quality with state-of-the-art technology.​

Would you like to clarify your remark?

I am puzzled by your explanation of HD / fluorite glass as I did not intend to imply any question or comment about these things, but clearly something I wrote inspired you to volunteer information.

Lee

Be careful attempting to glean info from the Terra ED pages on the Zeiss website... it seems some links on the Terra pages direct you to Conquest information. Mildly confusing. Very sloppy.