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Parrot Crossbills 2013 (1 Viewer)

John Cantelo

Well-known member
Interesting learning curve yesterday seeing my first Parrot Crossbill. I've seen 'large-billed' crossbill previously in Scotland, but didn't list them as, to my mind without plenty of comparative experience, a local guide or a sonogram, it's probably not safe to identify them to species level. (That said the birds in Scotland didn't have such large bills as the Parrots I saw here in Kent .....)

Exactly how many Parrot Crossbill are present at Hempsted is a matter of debate. I saw at least two - a male and female - although I only had good views of a male (possibly a third bird). This was a very heavily built bird with an obviously thick bull neck and a massive bulbous bill. According to one observer who'd recently seen the Essex birds these Parrots made the Shoeburyness birds look like whimps. A surprisingly distinctive bird once seen well. Put it this way, Mrs C who's not a birder had absolutely no problem picking out the Parrot Crossbill from the Commons.

Interestingly amongst the Commons were some birds which initially made you suck your teeth and wonder. Although in no way as heavy billed as the 'obvious' Parrots, they had subtly more bulbous and heavier bills than most Commons. Were they young Parrots or some other larger billed race? I'm really not sure. Conversely some Common Crossbills had bills a similar size to that of the Two-barred Crossbill! I gather that estimates of Parrots at the site vary from 12+ to 4 (and it was a very long wait to get good views).

The bottom line is that I would encourage everyone to get out and have a very hard look at any crossbill flocks in your locality. I really think that you've a good chance of finding the odd Parrot Crossbill if you're lucky or patient. Even if you don't find a 100% Parrot Crossbill (or a Two-barred) then you will at least find it an interesting learning experience. If anyone can get shots of the variety of bill sizes out there, then it'd be interesting to see them posted here.
 
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I thought one of the 2 Shoeburyness males had a very impressive bill, compared to the other three. All were v ery bull-necked. Have any photos of these subsequent Parrots emerged John?

I have seen a Common on Cannock Chase with a very impressive bill, but the size variance is not highly unusual I believe.
 
Thanks for preventing this thread from disappearing entirely! Apart from a very distant and 'fuzzy' shot, I'm not aware of any photos of the Hempsted birds which have generally been fairly distant (esp. compared with the Essex birds). I was hoping that this thread would encourage people to post any photos of both 'good' Parrot Xbills and less well endowed birds whose identity might be questionable. Any takers?
 
Morning John, it was suggested on the Shoeburyness birds thread that the birds could "potentially" be an influx from Scotland, though i believe the fact that there have been thousands of them in Finland/Scandinavia?? (can't remember exactly) followed by days of wind from the north east, favours the latter.

I personally would not be comfortable seperating Parrot from Scottish, but they were 'smashing up' green pine cones with ease. I gather that favours Parrot. I am not aware of anyone who thought they were not Parrots.

Fascinating species I admit!
 
My, you were up & on the computer early today! Given the relatively small size of the Scottish population compared to continental birds, the weather conditions and the location of the birds found thus far I'd have thought a continental origin would be far more probable. I'm sure these birds are Parrots, but I'd like to know how variable bill size is within that 'species' and within Common Crossbill too. I recall unconfirmed (?) reports years back of large-billed Crossbills in the Balkans. The crossbills I saw in Scotland years back didn't, as I recall, have such robust bills and may well have been Scottish Crossbill. However, I'd agree with an old friend who calls that species a Jesuitical one - that is one requiring a lot of faith. As I've observed before I fancy there are a lot of people with Scottish Crossbill on their list for no good reason other than they saw them in Scotland!
 
Tony Morris has some photos of the Crossbills at Hempsted on his blog, but unfortunately, none are unequivocal Parrot Crossbills. However, unless my eyes decieve me the righthand bird in the third photo seems to have a slight, but distinct, more bulbous bill than the other 'obvious' male Common Crossbill to the left. It's not remotely as large as the male's that I watched, but, bearing in mind crossbill bills grow larger with age is it an old female Common or a young Parrot? I'm inclined the think the latter ....
http://stmargaretsphotodiary.blogspot.co.uk/
 
John, throw into the mix a few large bill "Continental" Common xbills and this is perhaps why one needs to study a suite of features, hopefully including calls and songs. I think I read on one of LRGE's blog or somewhere that Parrots song is heard mostly in the winter so perhaps one or two may linger long enough to demonstrate this.
 
Does anyone have a link to the Dutch paper on Crossbills. It covers the latest thinking well, including that calls of Parrot and eastern Common are indistinguishable, including through sonograms. Is this correct?
 
Crossbills have been hard to find in the Highlands for several months with most of the usual spots struggling to bear goods.

If Parrot Crossbills can move - why not Scotsbill?

Always possible, we mooted that in 1982 as well. However the east coast arrival pattern of this year'sinflux doesn't really fit with an arrival of a "Scottish endemic", even if you assume that it exists..

cheers, a
 
Presumably, the Parrots will need to be submitted to the county recorder for acceptance. If so, are they acceptable on a description of big bills and bullnecks? Or is more required? I think the only accepted Kent record is from 1990 when a bird was trapped at Sandwich...
 
Robb 2000. Introduction to vocalizations of crossbills in north-western Europe. Dutch Birding 22(2): 61–107.

Just read it - way above my 'pay grade' I fear and, given recent discussions about the failing hearing of Britain's increasingly aged birders, well above many of their's too! I can just make out difference of this sort sitting listening to them using headphones and alert to whatever distinctions may be described, but in the field? I fear not - good luck to those who can!
 
I'd say it was a similar order of magnitude - doubtless you'll now tell me you took the shot in Speyside.

Not quite, I took that photo at Glen Tanar on Deeside four years ago. Subsequently I submitted a record of Parrot Crossbill to the atlas and it was queried by my local atlas organiser. I sent him this photo and a sound recording/sonogram taken at the same time, all of which he forwarded to one of Scotland's leading crossbill experts, who was happy with the ID.
 
Presumably, the Parrots will need to be submitted to the county recorder for acceptance. If so, are they acceptable on a description of big bills and bullnecks? Or is more required? I think the only accepted Kent record is from 1990 when a bird was trapped at Sandwich...

Hi Andy,

Magnus Robb has confirmed that vocalisations taken on site show that Parrot Crossbill is present.

http://www.kentos.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7118

Cheers,

Andy.
 
My experience today at Hemsted Forest was very similar to that of John in his original post.
I too had good views of a male Parrot Crossbill. The diagnostic features have already been mentioned and to my eye it appeared quite different from any Common Crossbill I've ever seen.

Just an opinion and totally unscientific, of course.

Dave W
 
My experience today at Hemsted Forest was very similar to that of John in his original post.
I too had good views of a male Parrot Crossbill. The diagnostic features have already been mentioned and to my eye it appeared quite different from any Common Crossbill I've ever seen.

Just an opinion and totally unscientific, of course.

Dave W

Put simply I thought that they were crossbills on steroids!
 
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