Alternative spotting scopes (1 Viewer)

Update: Have found a Lens2Scope for £100 with shipping. Since the Tokina zoom is very good, virtually CA free and very compact, I believe this will mean some great fun.
It also allows the use of other lenses so I might even try a Nikkor 300 mm IF ED or similar in the future. Will update the thread ASAP.

//L

looksharp65 said:

Update: Have found a Lens2Scope for £100 with shipping. Since the Tokina zoom is very good, virtually CA free and very compact, I believe this will mean some great fun.
It also allows the use of other lenses so I might even try a Nikkor 300 mm IF ED or similar in the future. Will update the thread ASAP.

//L

Click to expand...

My Lens2Scope user report: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2701695

Bushnell Elite Doubler

that one those lens that sits on top of a binocular? or is it for use with bushnell scopes?

woodhornbirder said:

Bushnell Elite Doubler

that one those lens that sits on top of a binocular? or is it for use with bushnell scopes?

Click to expand...

Yes, for binoculars, but I use mine behind the 30x Wide DS of my Nikon ED82A to get a quick glimpse with 75x without having to swap to the zoom.

//L

wow i should bring my gold reserves to sweden
lol ok doubler = 2.5x ?

i used to own a televue power mate that was also a 2.5x maginifier.

(decided i wasnt using it enough so flogged it off....)

woodhornbirder said:

wow i should bring my gold reserves to sweden
lol ok doubler = 2.5x ?

i used to own a televue power mate that was also a 2.5x maginifier.

(decided i wasnt using it enough so flogged it off....)

Click to expand...

Yep 2.5x. Works fine with the FL and the E II but the Tokina/Lens2Scope is definitely in another class when you're after a compact scope.
That combo is very allround since it delivers a 105 m/1000 m FOV @7x, admittedly not very wide or very bright, but it simplifies finding the target.
Then it also focuses down to 1.3 meters so it's also a kind of loupe to be used at a fair distance from the object. If that's not enough, I can add a +3D close focus lens which enables a very high magnification at a shorter distance.
What about your gold reserve?

//L

Draw tube option?

Hi all,

I do most of my spotting in the North Welsh hills where there is a mix of habitat e.g. open hill tops, distant valley views, woods & hedgerows etc. so I have various binos for different purposes e.g. Zeiss 10x42 HT for relatively close-up viewing and Swaro 12x50 + Canon IS 15x50 for greater distances.

I was thinking of a scope to complement the set but the problem is that my single favourite form of viewing is looking at raptors whilst walking around (sometimes they hover over-head and sometimes they are riding the thermals quite far away) and none of the tripod-based scopes would seem to offer me much use (by the time the scope is set up the buzzard/falcon has moved on). So tomorrow I take delivery of the Swaro CTC 30x75 draw tube - the advantages I hope to gain are:
- great portability
- the magnification necessary to see distant raptors but with good stability whilst being used hand-held (leaning against a tree/fence if necessary
- call me odd, but I really like the ergonomics/aesthetics of the draw tube compared to the short(ish) squat spotter scopes

I was toying with the idea of the new Zeiss 18-45x fieldscope because it is totally waterproof and rugged, but then I saw this really interesting video that compares the Zeiss and both sizes of the Swaro drawtubes and in which the Swaro 30x75 comes out as a clear winner for my needs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leexRuhuPIY

I'll let you know if the Swaro 30x75 does indeed prove fit for my particular purposes, but I was really reassured by how this review counters the oft-voiced concern that draw tubes aren't water proof enough, the reviewer describes how he really put it through some tough testing and it still does come across as a great compact portable package that you can sling over your back whilst walking.

Reading through various commentaries it seems that there just isn't a history of draw tubes being used in the N. America market and there's a bit of bias against them that seems based more on fashion/habit than fact?

Well, we'll soon see if there's a role for a draw tube for Welsh raptor-spotting!

very best wishes,

Paul.

Wales! It has a wonderful ring to it and you descibe it just like it looks like in my imagination.

I'm convinced that the Swaro 30x75 is a very fine scope. The straight view may be more challenging when you want to look toward the zenith, but this does not differ much from using binoculars as long as you can handhold it.

A finn-stick or similar combined walking staff/monopod solution would probably add considerably to the stability of the view.

/L

Thanks for the advice on the monopod suggestion, I forgot to mention that I bought what Swaro sell as a "tree screw attachment", which assuming you are near a convenient tree/fence post, means that you have a quick solution mount for more stability, but I will let you know how it all pans out and whether I end up still needing a monopod/staff ...

very best,

Paul.

Paul,

Maybe this could be interesting for you:

http://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/klapkolf

For more information you could contact House of Outdoor in English, no problem, two of the staff are active on Birdforum.

George

Hi George,

that looks really good, I will drop them a line and see about pricing/delivery etc.

my first day out with the CTC was ruined by terrible weather, but my first impressions related to the ergonomics. Swaro have the drawtube designed with a permanent canvas material carry case surrounding it, this makes it very safe but quite ungainly to get your hand around - trying to use it without the case is hampered by the fact the attachment ring on the body of the actual scope isn't really fit for purpose + they don't supply any lens caps beyond the permanent case ones (which require the case to be on in order to fit).

You can take the scope out the case but it's not very well protected or easy to attach to a sling/strap. This is a shame because the rubber housing provides a better, more natural grip than the canvas case-surround. Apparently Swaro have decided how they want you to use the scope!

thanks again for the pointer to the shoulder stabilizer,

very best,

Paul.

I tracked a vintage Swaro drawtube 30x75 with Swaro top coating. The price is right at £150, but I'm more anxious to see how my Nikkor ED 300 mm performs with the Lens2Scope first. Should I jump on the Swaro?

//L

So, it's been four and a half years since the latest update and I'm suddenly finding myself experimental again.
Could be the flu I caught the other day, anyway I'm a bit restless sitting idle at home.

I've found a vendor with a very low price on the straight Opticron MM3 with their cheapest zoom eyepiece, but am more inclined to wait upon an angled Fieldscope EDII or EDIII. There's also an 80 MM Optolyth HD available at a very reasonable price that I've looked a lot at, but not willing to take the plunge.
Here and there, Opticrons 665s and 815s can be found, but for some reason or another only available in the UK. Even some German sellers have that bad habit, but I'm by no means in desperate need of making a purchase.
The ED82A will continuously be my main scope and the ED50A for going with more mobility.

The Lens2Scope did not meet my expectations in the long run and was sold. My Hama lens scope converter is also too under-performing to fill any actual purpose.
The Nikkor 300 mm lens I bought has its capacity significantly limited by those contraptions. The fact that it lacks its tripod collar has averted me from trying to resurrect it. Today, I was tempted to buy an original Nikon Lens Scope Converter since it receives such praise among the reviewers. But I decided to go with the Skywatcher 10 mm erecting eyepiece instead, and an aftermarket tripod collar for a Canon zoom lens.

Neither the Nikon converter nor the Skywatcher eyepiece have official specifications like AFOV, number of lenses and coatings. When I hold a Wide DS 27x/40x/50x eyepiece behind the lens, and I think the focal length is about 10 mm, the image is quite decent, but of course upside down.
The fairly big number of lenses inside it (the telephoto group) do steal more light than the prisms of spotting scopes, and the lens must still be equipped with an external erecting prism à la the Skywatcher ep.
This will in turn mean that the magnification must be kept fairly low because brightness and contrast already suffer. So with a 300/4.5 telephoto lens, 30x magnification may be on the steep side for evening birding, despite its 66 mm frontlens.

When the collar and the eyepiece arrive, I'll be able to assess whether or not making a mount for the eyepiece is worth the effort. There's indeed a pain threshold where the image simply isn't enjoyable. But playing around with old stuff is fun and developing.

//L

Hi Lars,
I have the Lens2Scope in 4 fittings. I got them cheaply because they were a commercial failure. Overpriced, Korean?, they have internal dust and a small field, but long eye relief that I don't need. Although they have a tripod mount.
I also have old Japanese monocular converters in various fittings. Much better optically, but liable to fungus now as so old.
I have the Nikon original if you want any information on it.
Also Minolta original.
The only one I don't have is the Leica R. I missed a few when I thought them expensive, but should have bought one. I have the negative lens small Leica old one.
Also various weird Russian ones and a strange Pentax.
Tamron 90 degree angled 18mm.
Pentax rear of 500mm mirror spotting scope fits T2 lenses and takes 24.5mm eyepieces loosely if I want. 45 deg angled.

A 30cm f/4.5 Nikon lens was really awful. I am sure a modern 300mm Nikon is better.
An excellent lens was a cheap 300mm f/4 lightweight independent. Hoya version was poor but an identical M?? forget brand name is excellent. Excellent for aircraft in flight with a camera.

I have a 10mm erecting cheapy eyepiece also. Never used it.

Usually dedicated scopes are better than lens plus converters. However, some mirror lenses such as Vivitar 600mm f/8 solid cat are superb if in original condition. Also some 500mm/8 regular mirror lenses. Nikon, Minolta,
Canon and some independents. Tamron SP also.
Some 1000mm MTO are good and an original very old one made by a master optician is better than a Questar.

Binastro said:

Hi Lars,
I have the Lens2Scope in 4 fittings. I got them cheaply because they were a commercial failure. Overpriced, Korean?, they have internal dust and a small field, but long eye relief that I don't need. Although they have a tripod mount.
I also have old Japanese monocular converters in various fittings. Much better optically, but liable to fungus now as so old.
I have the Nikon original if you want any information on it.
Also Minolta original.
The only one I don't have is the Leica R. I missed a few when I thought them expensive, but should have bought one. I have the negative lens small Leica old one.
Also various weird Russian ones and a strange Pentax.
Tamron 90 degree angled 18mm.
Pentax rear of 500mm mirror spotting scope fits T2 lenses and takes 24.5mm eyepieces loosely if I want. 45 deg angled.

A 30cm f/4.5 Nikon lens was really awful. I am sure a modern 300mm Nikon is better.
An excellent lens was a cheap 300mm f/4 lightweight independent. Hoya version was poor but an identical M?? forget brand name is excellent. Excellent for aircraft in flight with a camera.

I have a 10mm erecting cheapy eyepiece also. Never used it.

Usually dedicated scopes are better than lens plus converters. However, some mirror lenses such as Vivitar 600mm f/8 solid cat are superb if in original condition. Also some 500mm/8 regular mirror lenses. Nikon, Minolta,
Canon and some independents. Tamron SP also.
Some 1000mm MTO are good and an original very old one made by a master optician is better than a Questar.

Click to expand...

:eek!:
My very first own scope was the Hama scope converter with a Tamron 350/5.6 cat. This was obviously an emergency solution, but then, like now, experimenting is great fun. The lacking contrast from each of the two pieces didn't produce a view to kill for. Now that I've played a bit with it on the Nikkor, I can still see the image degradation from the eyepiece unit, but I'm not as bothered with the small AFOV as I used to be. In fact, the AFOV is clearly adequate with the Hama.

My 300 lens is the ED version and it's old. I'm fully aware that it cannot deliver anything like (even) the ED50, but I'm happy if it's reasonably usable. I know that this depends on the eyepiece/prism unit.

I have the Russian Turist 20x50 drawscope too, it's in fact not too shabby but my 12x50 binoculars outclass it in every respect. Oh and the close focus is about 12 meters, which you access by several full turns of the eyepiece :eek!:
So 30x or more is the norm (my ED50A has the 27x Wide MC though).

I'd love to learn about the original Nikon scope converter since it seems to be the benchmark. What about the AFOV? Contrast? Brightness? Is it fully multicoated?
How come you never used the erecting eyepiece? The only thing I know about it is that there are happy campers out there, but not what they're comparing the view to.

//L

Lars,
I also have the 20x50 Turist and several other Russian/Soviet scopes.

It is late now, but if I get good weather and my eyes are not tired I'll try the Nikon scope converter perhaps on a Nikon macro lens. I don't have any long lenses handy, although there is a Nikon 500mm f/8 mirror I used to use. The Nikon 500mm f/5 was sold.

Setting up scopes on a tripod is tiring for me nowadays, I usually stick to hand held binoculars.
Next time I set one up I'll try the erecting eyepiece.

The Kelner type eyepieces of monocular converters are not ideal at f/4. F/6 probably gives better results, although many binoculars use Kelners or modified ones. The Edmund 8mm RKE is a great eyepiece, at least the original ones.

Hi Lars,
Comparing with an Elite 10x42 with 5.6 deg FOV the field of the Nikon Lens scope converter with a Micro Nikkor 105mm f/4 lens seems to be about 5.15 deg. But it has clouded over so I cannot measure more carefully on the stars.
This would give a simple measure of the AFOV of about 54 degrees.
The view seems quite adequate.
Compared with a Leica BA 8x32 the magnification is about 10.5x.
So the focal length is about 10mm.

With this lens I can see no central CA in bright sunshine on white pillars.
There is a small amount of CA near the edge.

There is a small amount of pincushion distortion near the edges.

I can see no colour cast, but I am not good at this compared with bird watchers.

This combination gives a very sharp image.
Contrast is good, but I only had brief views.

The image is surprisngly bright.

The FOV is about 20% to 25% wider than the Lens2Scope adapter and the view seems nicer. The Lens2scope combination seems dimmer and less contrast, but again I had too little time to be sure.

The eyepiece seems to be multicoated on all surfaces, but the eyepiece is small and I am not sure how many lens elements.
The eyelens is about 13.8mm clear rear diameter and seems flat on the rear surface.
However, the prism seems to be uncoated.

My Televue erect prism adapter is also uncoated but good optically.

The interior of the converter and the exterior are matt black.

There seems to be no provision for opening the lens to maximum aperture as on the Minolta own converter from memory.

There is a focus travel on the rotating eyepiece of 2.0 or 2.5mm but no dioptre markings.

A nice stitched leather? case with zipped top.

There is a foldable nice rubber eyecup. Either up or down.

The eye relief with the Nikon converter is very good for me without glasses.
Much better than Minolta's own converter, which is very tight, which is why I use the Vivitar TLA-1 instead on Minolta MC or MD lenses.

However, with fairly small glasses with the Nikon converter I need to push against the eyepiece to see the whole field.
I think some glasses wearers could not see the whole field without minimalist glasses.

Grease may come from eyelashes onto the rear lens surface. Not a problem really.

:t:
Thank you very much for your effort! Finally some useful information about it. Makes me somewhat regret I didn't buy the original Nikon right away.
But I'm hoping the Skywatcher eyepiece is equally good, so it can unleash the lens's true performance. Thanks again!

//L

Just looked at Orion with the original Nikon lens converter and Nikon 105mm f/4 Micro Nikkor lens.

First time clouds gone, but hazy.

Beautiful star images.
Right near the field edge there is a small amount of coma maybe. Not just field curvature. White stars still white.
The stars look good over most of the field.

The real field is 5.45 degrees hand held, so probably 5.4 degrees if I put it on a tripod.
This gives a simple AFOV measure of 57 degrees, which is more than my initial estimate.

The 6 day approx. Moon also looks good.
I photographed this at about 14.45UT this afternoon in bright sunshine, after I spotted it in the sky.

P.S.
The moon is not well placed, but shows some false colour near the field edge.
Also the central sharpness becomes fuzzy near the edge.

It would be better to judge on a night of good transparency.