FZ18 or FZ28 or Canon Powershot SX1 IS (1 Viewer)

Cartman · Oct 20, 2008

or the Canon Powershot SX10 IS or a Fujifilm Finepix A100fs :-C

As you can see I have made my mind up to get a Superzoom camera for mainly birding photos and also other bits of nature. I did consider going down the DSLR route but I like the ease of use of the Superzooms.

I am still not sure which one to get...hence the thread title but I have a couple of questions. I understand that the FZ28 is replacing the FZ18 and yet it is much cheaper, how does that work? Is it a better camera?

Also the TCON 1.7 lens, does this increase the overall zoom capability of the camera by 1.7x giving the FZ18/28 a 30.6x zoom?

Can you get a similar lens as an add on for the Canon range?

njlarsen · Oct 21, 2008

I will be curious to see what the final result of your quest will be. For comparing the two Panazonic entries, take a look at http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=119134 in addition to the other threads.

If you live near a well stocked photo shop, walk in and take the different cameras in hand and play around. It will be best to look at things like how well the viewfinder works with your eyes, and indoor lightning may be ideal for that test, as lower light often is more demanding. Then play around with the autofocus settings and see how small a part of the total image you can actually focus on (say a corner of a desk half the distance to the background). For image quality, keep searching the web for reviews of the contenders.

Cheers
Niels

Cartman · Oct 21, 2008

njlarsen said:
I will be curious to see what the final result of your quest will be. For comparing the two Panazonic entries, take a look at http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=119134 in addition to the other threads.

If you live near a well stocked photo shop, walk in and take the different cameras in hand and play around. It will be best to look at things like how well the viewfinder works with your eyes, and indoor lightning may be ideal for that test, as lower light often is more demanding. Then play around with the autofocus settings and see how small a part of the total image you can actually focus on (say a corner of a desk half the distance to the background). For image quality, keep searching the web for reviews of the contenders.

Cheers
Niels

And a long quest it will probably be Niels, I tend to take a while before actually take the plunge and spend my cash. The two Canons are not out in this country till the end of this month so there is very little real info on them from real people at the moment.

I am right in thinking the TCON will increase the zoom of the camera by 1.7 making it a 30x zoom camera? If so that is one hell of a zoom, to buy a DSLR lens to give you that reach you would have to spend a fortune.

Cartman · Oct 21, 2008

I can get the Canon Powershot SX1 from Amazon for £399 but at Jessops it's £519...that's a huge difference in price.

How can they justify that, I know they offer interest free credit but it's just greed in my opinion

The Canon is not out till the end of November now so I will have to wait a while for a decent review

RAH · Oct 21, 2008

Cartman said:
Also the TCON 1.7 lens, does this increase the overall zoom capability of the camera by 1.7x giving the FZ18/28 a 30.6x zoom?

Can you get a similar lens as an add on for the Canon range?

Concerning the 30.6 zoom, I think what you really mean or are really interested in is do you get 30x magnification. The answer is no. You get about 17x, using the following math:

these Panasonics have a 35mm equivalent zoom from 27mm to 486. Divide 486 by 50, you get about 10x. So, the top magnification you get is 10x. Multiply 10 by the TCON17's 1.7 and you get 17x.

As far as the total zoom range, don't forget, you cannot zoom out much when you have a converter in front of the lens - only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way out. If you go firther, you get vignetting - i.e. you see an oval around the image, from the sides of the converter. But it really doesn't matter, because the whole point of the converter is to magnify at the top end, so you won't want to be zooming out much anyway.

As far as a Canon add-on, you have to be sure that the cameras allow you to use an adapter tube, which is necessary to attach the converter in front of the lens. Look at specs for the cameras and reviews, etc for the info. They probably do allow it. The older S5 does. Once you've determined this, you can use a TCON17, as long as the lens diameter on the camera's lens isn't too much more than 55mm.

For example, with the Canon S5, which has a 58mm lens diameter, you buy a conversion tube (Canon LAH-DC20 or a Lensmate - http://www.lensmateonline.com/newsite/S2.html ), and a step-down ring to go from 58mm down to 55mm, which attaches to the tube. The TCON-17 attaches to the step-down ring, right in front of the lens.

Cartman · Oct 21, 2008

RAH said:
Concerning the 30.6 zoom, I think what you really mean or are really interested in is do you get 30x magnification. The answer is no. You get about 17x, using the following math:

these Panasonics have a 35mm equivalent zoom from 27mm to 486. Divide 486 by 50, you get about 10x. So, the top magnification you get is 10x. Multiply 10 by the TCON17's 1.7 and you get 17x.

As far as the total zoom range, don't forget, you cannot zoom out much when you have a converter in front of the lens - only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way out. If you go firther, you get vignetting - i.e. you see an oval around the image, from the sides of the converter. But it really doesn't matter, because the whole point of the converter is to magnify at the top end, so you won't want to be zooming out much anyway.

As far as a Canon add-on, you have to be sure that the cameras allow you to use an adapter tube, which is necessary to attach the converter in front of the lens. Look at specs for the cameras and reviews, etc for the info. They probably do allow it. The older S5 does. Once you've determined this, you can use a TCON17, as long as the lens diameter on the camera's lens isn't too much more than 55mm.

For example, with the Canon S5, which has a 58mm lens diameter, you buy a conversion tube (Canon LAH-DC20 or a Lensmate - http://www.lensmateonline.com/newsite/S2.html ), and a step-down ring to go from 58mm down to 55mm, which attaches to the tube. The TCON-17 attaches to the step-down ring, right in front of the lens.

Thanks for the info, it's a big help in my quest

njlarsen · Oct 21, 2008

One more way to think about the zoom amount and the converter:

without converter you have a range from quite wide to what roughly corresponds to a 10x binocular as RAH has explained.

With a 1.7x converter, at the longest end you get 1.7x more, corresponding to the 17 x binocular. However, it is limited how much you can zoom out when using the converter, maybe down to 12 or 14 x binocular correspondence. Below that, the optics stop working together, and you get an increasing amount of black at the corners of the image.

Niels

loranfrfr · Mar 11, 2009

I decided to revive this thread in the very selfish attempt to make my mind about a superzoom. Panasonic FZ18 or 28, or Canon SX10 IS are the two models I am interseted in, although I might consider other models too. Is there any comparison you guys might have made or find? In particular, I am interested in the high ISO performance comparison of these superzoom (supposed to be the weak point of these cameras). I would also appreciate any picture (link, blog) taken by any of these camera.

MLoyko · Mar 11, 2009

Here some I took with the FZ18 but I have relatively no idea how. I either just use the auto intelligence function, or a manual function and play around with it till it looks good in the eye piece then snap it.

kittykat23uk · Mar 11, 2009

All these except two were shot with the FZ18 (most with the TCON-17 attached, some in EZ mode):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8773601@N03/sets/72157614414371596/

And these

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8773601@N03/sets/72157609198993732/

And these:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8773601@N03/sets/72157606072883695/

and most of these- But I didn't have the TCON back then:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8773601@N03/sets/72157603341038890/

For comparison of the India pics with other people on the trip who used DSLRs:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/wildaboutindia/

RJM · Mar 12, 2009

I spent some time playing with the FZ28, SX10, and SX1. I settled on the SX1 and after using it in the field for a few weeks now, I feel I made the right decision. More so now that an impending firmware update will enable RAW capability.

cheers,
Rick

loranfrfr · Mar 12, 2009

Wow, great pics! I am truely impressed by some of these. I guess I have to go out of the digibinsing technique one of these days.

RJM, I know the SX1 sounds really great, with the RAW capacity, but I think I might go for the slightly less expensive SX10, or othe bridges. I ve heard that ths SX10 and SX1 can not accept zoom extension (No threads designed for that). Is that true?

Still a couple of months before I can afford one anyway (for some reason, my pregnant wife thinks that a baby stroller is more usefull than a camera), so any other link or advise is welcome.

Cristian Mihai · Mar 12, 2009

"I ve heard that ths SX10 and SX1 can not accept zoom extension (No threads designed for that). Is that true?"

Yes, it is true. Lensmate makes an adapter ring for filter or for macro lens but NOT for a teleconverter. And IMHO a max focal lenght of 560 mm is a little bit to short for taking pics with birds...

njlarsen · Mar 14, 2009

Cristian Mihai said:
"I ve heard that ths SX10 and SX1 can not accept zoom extension (No threads designed for that). Is that true?"

Yes, it is true. Lensmate makes an adapter ring for filter or for macro lens but NOT for a teleconverter. And IMHO a max focal lenght of 560 mm is a little bit to short for taking pics with birds...

A few (well some) years ago, I had a film camera with a 450 mm lens, and most people thought that I had one of the longest lenses one could have, "and that would surely demand a tripod". Now 560 is not enough? maybe someone should work on their skils at getting closer to birds (or work for limiting hunting in the area they are living in ...)

Cheers
Niels

Cristian Mihai · Mar 14, 2009

Hi Niels,

IMHO a max focal lenght around 600 mm (35 mm equiv) it is acceptable for taking pics with birds in gardens, parks, woods. In the open field and for water birds 600 mm it is usually too short.
My experience is based on these gears:
I have a Canon PowerShot S3IS (420 mm). For this camera I use 2 teleconverters: DCR 1540 PRO (around 660 mm) and DCR 2020PRO (around 950 mm). I also have a Olympus SP 560UZ (around 480 mm). Adding the same DCR 1540PRO I have a MFL (max focal lenght) around 740 mm. I don't use the DCR 2020PRO with the Oly SP 560 UZ because the image quality is poor for this combo.
I also have an Oympus E-520 with Zuiko Digital 70-300 mm (MFL = 600 mm). I bought for this one an Olympus EC-14 teleconverter, so I can achieve a MFL of 840 mm.

FZ18 or FZ28 or Canon Powershot SX1 IS (1 Viewer)

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