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gulls (4 Viewers)

Hi Cristian, I`ve just read the reply. Unfortunately I`ve already checked with the Lithuanian Gull ringers and they`ve said it`s not one of theirs.The mystery continues!

cheers, Pete.
 
Hi all,

I've just digiscoped this bird at the nearby recycling centre. Unusually for this time of year there were 150-200 large gulls present.

I'm happy that it is a 1st summer Caspian Gull but the bleached coverts are a worry. I have never seen 2cy Caspians in late April so this plumage is new to me. However, I expected to see fresh median coverts.

On the plus side, note the very pale, long, thin bill with black tip, the long tibia and milky coloured legs, large body with domed, small head with a beady black eye high on the head, the gingery greater coverts devoid of vermiculations and hanging rear belly. Underparts typically gleaming white with dark looking spots (not splodges).

In flight the centre of the underwing (axillaries and greater coverts) as well as much of the miedian coverts were white with little dark spotting. Tail band typically restricted to outer tail with thin fag-paper bands above that.

Comments welcome.

Cheers,

Andy.
 

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Hi Andy, it certainly looks good for a Casp, although as you say its in an unfamiliar plumage stage for most Brits and I agree that one would expect new median coverts.
I`ve attached a pic of a gull I saw today up in the NW of England whilst I was being distracted by stuff like Whinchats and Lesser Whitethroats, comments welcome as ever, cheers, Pete.View attachment 320260
 
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hi andy, certainly looks like a cach. a bleached covert field is pretty common in both 2cy caspian and YLGs in spring. there are some 2nd gen. coverts (mostly LC) in your bird.
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php?bid=373&grp=cachinnans 2cy january-june
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php?bid=819&grp=cachinnans 2cy january-june (this one is simlar to yours in the black looking replaced coverts inmidst a bleached juv covert field). moult score highly variable in 1-2cy cachs and MC don't necessarily need to be moulted.

pete, do you have any more pics with that bird, one showing a mirror? quite confusing. is that striation on its head? at this time of year in such an advanced plumage? bill reminds of a snub nosed male caspian. but wings are def. too short, striation is off - so might be a funny 5cy argentatus? that mantle is quite dark...
 
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hi andy, certainly looks like a cach. a bleached covert field is pretty common in both 2cy caspian and YLGs in spring. there are some 2nd gen. coverts (mostly LC) in your bird.
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php?bid=373&grp=cachinnans 2cy january-june
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php?bid=819&grp=cachinnans 2cy january-june (this one is simlar to yours in the black looking replaced coverts inmidst a bleached juv covert field). moult score highly variable in 1-2cy cachs and MC don't necessarily need to be moulted.

pete, do you have any more pics with that bird, one showing a mirror? quite confusing. is that striation on its head? at this time of year in such an advanced plumage? bill reminds of a snub nosed male caspian. but wings are def. too short, striation is off - so might be a funny 5cy argentatus? that mantle is quite dark...

Thanks Lou and Pete. I do rely on your comments as I don't like the idea of posting a bird that I may have mis-identified elsehwere on the web. So many thanks. The links that you've posted Lou are very useful.

I haven't forgotten those YLGs, I should add Lou. Funnily enough, it was one of the other two birds that I had major doubts with....

Pete - that is a very odd looking bird. Lou sums up very nicely as to why it looks odd. I don't like jumping straight to the hybrid conclusion but perhaps in this case?

Cheers,

Andy.
 
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Lou, Andy, yes this is a very odd bird and I too don`t like to resort to the hybrid conclusion but could this be a Cach x Argie or Cach x LBB or Herr x LBB? or something else? It was not only eye-catching because it didn`t "compute" as an easily recognisable species but also because it had a very Casp like jizz as it walked through the flock, into the strong sunlight unfortunately, so the grey mantle tones look darker than it did in the field.It didn`t have head streaking as such, the head feathers are spiky after the bird had just bathed in the lagoon nearby and so give a streaky impression, just the nape was really streaked/spotted.The only other pic in a different pose is attached, apologies for the poor quality but the underside of the primaries is just visible,

cheers, Pete.View attachment 320266
 
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at least now we see that it has some black in tail which makes it a strong case for a 4cy. but with short wings (well, some male casps appear short wionged) and, i see no mirror! not sure if such a leggy strong billed bird should be alleaged with a LBBG hybrid. head still looks pretty caspiish to me!
 
at least now we see that it has some black in tail which makes it a strong case for a 4cy. but with short wings (well, some male casps appear short wionged) and, i see no mirror! not sure if such a leggy strong billed bird should be alleaged with a LBBG hybrid. head still looks pretty caspiish to me!

And no white tips to the primaries. What about the shape of the upper mandible nostril? Thing is, the bird isn't that dark so I'm not seeing LBBG.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Hi Andy, no, I`ve not had any replies to several e-mails about this bird.I`m not having much luck in responses at the moment, I`ve recently sent off details of a green ringed Caspian Gull (presumably a Polish bird, code "P843") and haven`t had a reply to that either! Nor anything on three ringed Sandwich Terns from over a month ago, I guess everyone is very busy at the moment!

cheers, Pete.
 
Hi Andy, no, I`ve not had any replies to several e-mails about this bird.I`m not having much luck in responses at the moment, I`ve recently sent off details of a green ringed Caspian Gull (presumably a Polish bird, code "P843") and haven`t had a reply to that either! Nor anything on three ringed Sandwich Terns from over a month ago, I guess everyone is very busy at the moment!

cheers, Pete.

That's a shame. Might be worth your while trying Pete Rock. He replies to emails very quickly indeed! He may know exactly who you should be emailing.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
That's a shame. Might be worth your while trying Pete Rock. He replies to emails very quickly indeed! He may know exactly who you should be emailing.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Andy.

Cheers Andy, yes Pete Rock does a superb job with ringed large Gull info and he`s been really helpful on many occasions in finding the source of colour rings.I contacted him about the yellow ringed Herring Gull too and he replied as swiftly as ever but up to now it seems it cannot be traced,

all the best, Pete.
 
Cheers Andy, yes Pete Rock does a superb job with ringed large Gull info and he`s been really helpful on many occasions in finding the source of colour rings.I contacted him about the yellow ringed Herring Gull too and he replied as swiftly as ever but up to now it seems it cannot be traced,

all the best, Pete.

How bizzarre.

I contacted Dave Walker at Dungeness as he has had two Polish rung Caspians this year: PAAC on 7th March and PDVT at the weekend.
He gets info back via this address although responses can be slow: [email protected].

Photo here of Dunge bird:

http://www.dungenessbirdobs.org.uk/lateframe.html

Please let us know once you've solved the puzzle!

Cheers,

Andy.
 
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Thanks for this Andy! It`s hard work finding a Casp up here, and to get a colour-ringed one is a real bonus( no colour ringed ones have been seen in Lancashire before and only one next door in Cheshire), so it would be great to get some gen back on it.There is a possibilty however with this bird that the code I read may not be accurate.It was a long way away and despite digiscoping it, the last digit may well not be a 3, but I`m sure the other digits are "P84." Someone has suggested to me however that it could be the Polish lettering which can be difficult to discern and that the code could actually be "PBAB".
Either way I`ve sent the info off to the address you`ve suggested , so fingers crossed!

cheers, Pete.
 
Thanks for this Andy! It`s hard work finding a Casp up here, and to get a colour-ringed one is a real bonus( no colour ringed ones have been seen in Lancashire before and only one next door in Cheshire), so it would be great to get some gen back on it.There is a possibilty however with this bird that the code I read may not be accurate.It was a long way away and despite digiscoping it, the last digit may well not be a 3, but I`m sure the other digits are "P84." Someone has suggested to me however that it could be the Polish lettering which can be difficult to discern and that the code could actually be "PBAB".
Either way I`ve sent the info off to the address you`ve suggested , so fingers crossed!

cheers, Pete.
Or PAPB?

http://www.kentos.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1982

http://www.kentos.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1979

Did it look like this bird?
 
Hi Andy, have attached a pic to show you the distance involved with this bird.You can just see the top of the ring above the LBB! It did show more openly than this, but I was concentrating on getting the ring number rather than taking pics!But having now seen the lettering on the Casps in your links, ithink it may well have been "PBAB". One of the biggest drawbacks in Gulling up here is the great distance involved between them and us.The closest we can get is 100m and often they are 300m+....must get myself a Questar!

cheers, Pete.View attachment 325589
 
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