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Old Wednesday 21st February 2018, 06:19   #501
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@ hwinbermuda I see what you mean about those comments. The authors of this study do footnote, in their conclusions section, (8,9,10,11 and 19--but looking at the references I think they must mean 20) other studies that have looked at the same issue. One would have to read those studies, I think, and the peer review comments might also be illuminating if one could find them. I wish I could find out more about Gateshead--I think I said earlier that still births and miscarriages are being reported there. One personal experience--my sister used to live directly opposite an antenna park in Athens. She had her first child without any problem (she was living elsewhere then) but had a lot of trouble carrying the second baby to term and was on all kinds of medications to stop a miscarriage. Looking back (obviously neither of us made any association of the antenna park with her troubles at the time)I think what might have saved her pregnancy--and my niece--was the fact that she spent the middle 3 months away from Athens. Of course this is not proof, merely an indication why I think there may in fact be an association between miscarriage and EMR.
No one can say that a particular case will turn out one way or the another because of EMR. Research conclusions, such as the Kaiser study, simply inform us of the percentage change in probability that a miscarriage will occur beyond its base level. So the value of the research, essentially, is to quantify the increase in risk, and if the change is statistically significant we have that degree of confidence in the conclusion. Of course, this doesn't preclude unknown factors from contaminating the results, so replications are needed. It's a probability game.

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Old Wednesday 21st February 2018, 10:13   #502
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@ Gordon I did say my sister's experience wasn't proof, didn't I? But reading that study did make me wonder. Ed's comment following yours is very much to the point.

I very much like the quote by Feynman that Ed posts at the bottom of his comments "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" because that sums up nicely what this thread is all about. The so-called experts have been telling us for years that wireless technologies are safe, and I challenge that view, based both on personal observation and the opinion/work of opposing scientists.

If you stop to think about it, all scientific progress is the result of challenging what the experts of the time believed to be immutable fact: the sun goes around the earth; the earth is flat; here be dragons; witches float. In medieval times, the authority was the Catholic church. A very narrow interpretation of Holy Writ by self-proclaimed ecclesiastical "experts" led to the centuries-long Dark Ages where no scientific progress was made at all. And things would in all likelihood have gone on this way but for two significant events, interrelated: the fall of Byzantium in 1453, where the move westwards by the scholars fleeing the Turks brought with them the results of centuries of scientific discoveries, and the Crusades, in which Europeans came into contact with the Arab world. Not only were the Arabs superb mathematicians in their own right, but they had also built their scientific base on the knowledge of the ancient world, which had not been lost as in Europe. Even after these events, scientific progress in Europe was greatly hampered by trying to reconcile the precepts of the church with scientific discovery, and early scientists had to do some very fancy footwork to avoid saying that what they were learning about the physical universe meant that the church was wrong. If you want to read some good examples of this, try the novel "An Instance of the Fingerpost" by Iain Pears. Truly fascinating.

Today we no longer have the church as the ultimate authority in all things scientific, but we do have other, equally dangerous challenges to the spirit of open scientific enquiry. The military-industrial complex perceives the world in the same narrow way as the medieval church, and today's gods are money and power. (Not much changes: money and power were at the heart of the medieval church's supremacy as well.) But all questioning of accepted scientific views begins with an observation that seems to challenge them. Someone--not I--first wondered if exposure to EMR could lead to miscarriage. Did he have a sister, a neighbor or a wife who lost a baby while living near a source of EMR? Did he then notice a pattern of women who lived near sources of EMR and also had miscarriages? Did he then think, "I should do a study about this and see if there's anything to my theory that EMR might cause miscarriage?" Of course this study should be replicated to see if the results are confirmed. But someone had to notice a correlation in the first place.
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Old Wednesday 21st February 2018, 10:41   #503
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New, major Italian study confirms results of NTP study

It looks as if the NTP study results were not a fluke. A major new study done in Italy also found malignant schwannomas of the heart in male rats, and this confirms results of an earlier study done by the same authors in 2016 finding malignant schwannomas as a result of power-line EMR (see link in text). This new study, due to be published within the week, is reviewed here: http://microwavenews.com/news-center/more-coincidence

Also of interest is an article titled "Celll Tower Radiation Facts and 5G Unknowns" at https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02...-unknowns.html
Ignore the really weird stuff (advertisements?) on the same page; it's a good article and has links to a number of studies about cancer incidence near cell towers/base stations. The author asks what 5G will do to the environment. I'd like to know if anybody cares what it will do to the environment.

There is also a link to a talk about 5G weaponized frequencies (I mentioned this a couple of days ago) given by Barbara Johnson, an electrical engineer and star wars technician. 55 minutes long, scary stuff. If you use EMR as a weapon on human populations, what do you think that will do to insects, birds and small mammals? Here's the link: https://level9news.com/5g-ground-based-web-system/
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Old Thursday 22nd February 2018, 10:54   #504
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Also of interest is an article titled "Celll Tower Radiation Facts and 5G Unknowns" at https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02...-unknowns.html
Ignore the really weird stuff (advertisements?) on the same page; it's a good article and has links to a number of studies about cancer incidence near cell towers/base stations. The author asks what 5G will do to the environment. I'd like to know if anybody cares what it will do to the environment.
No, you can not ignore the really weird stuff, not at all, because if gives a clue about the kind of website you are visiting.


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There is also a link to a talk about 5G weaponized frequencies (I mentioned this a couple of days ago) given by Barbara Johnson, an electrical engineer and star wars technician. 55 minutes long, scary stuff. If you use EMR as a weapon on human populations, what do you think that will do to insects, birds and small mammals? Here's the link: https://level9news.com/5g-ground-based-web-system/
On another "conspiranoid" website.

Meanwhile last weekend I went to Urdaibai again. This time I saw a white stork nest on a large cell phone antenna tower. Yes, white stork are considered a real pest by telecommunication and energy engineeers in Spain. From Madrid southwards you will notice that power line towers and antenna towers have long pointy spikes to prevent storks from nesting.
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Old Thursday 22nd February 2018, 13:27   #505
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@ Borjam I know that most of the anti-wireless information is carried on alternative websites. That particular one had some very odd stuff on it. However the article had a good list of links to studies, which was why I posted it. It was also a good interview, if a bit slow to get going.

It is a shame that the mainstream media is not doing its job of informing the public about the hazards of EMR properly. If it were, there would be no need for the alternative media to do its job for them. The proliferation of alternative sites for all kinds of news speaks volumes about public lack of trust in the mainstream media, as does the fact that readership figures for mainstream publications is consistently declining. This is what happens when you have no responsible and impartial forums for public debate. EMR is hardly the only issue which the mainstream media fails to cover fairly or even adequately. A whole range of issues, from finance and monetary policy to immigration and Middle Eastern wars, tends to be presented as if there were only one point of view. The role of the media is not, or should not be, the role of Orwell's Ministry of Truth.

The proliferation of alternative media sites in all kinds of areas speaks volumes about public trust in government and the mainstream media. This is the same media, by the way, that claimed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, till it turned out he didn't. The same media that laughed at the idea of human activity driving climate change until it decided that climate change was responsible for just about everything that goes wrong. The same media that now wants to blame Russia for every election result and the Brexit vote.

This is why I keep saying, read the studies. And it says something, I think, that the alternative media is willing to publish those studies (or links to them) to support their case, while the mainstream media pretends they don't exist, and won't give air time to people with knowledge and experience like Barbara Johnson.

It's a pity you are so unhappy about storks trying to roost or nest on top of cell towers and antennas. Be glad you have them. At the rate we're going, it won't be for much longer. You'll miss them when they're gone.
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Old Friday 23rd February 2018, 12:05   #506
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EMR causes behavioral and cognitive problems

In his Mt. Nardi Wildlife Report, Mark Broomhall mentions that birds affected by cell tower radiation exhibit unusual behaviors. It's a pity he doesn't go into this in detail but he is clearly more concerned with population declines and disappearances. So was I, initially. However, I am starting to notice changes in avian behavioral patterns as well. The most striking is the lack of birdsong. Spring is on its way here--we saw the first martins days before yesterday, and the spring flowers are blooming, with anemones already on their way out again along with the earliest wild orchids.

The birds, though, very rarely sing. We have a very few small flocks of chaffinches, but they never sing. The last time I heard a chaffinch sing--actually sing, as opposed to the odd tweet or twitter--was in northern Greece last spring. So while we do hear birds chirp, cheep, tweet and twitter, there is little or no full-fledged song. And there ought to be. We're nearly into March and they should be building nests, or getting ready to.

One of the many problems with cell tower radiation/EMR is that it causes cognitive changes/dysfunction as well as behavioral changes. The attached letter to the FCC gives some fairly graphic case histories of how EMR affects children. What EMR does to children, it also does to birds. When the birds stop singing, they stop attracting mates, they don't nest or their nesting behavior changes, and they raise fewer chicks or perhaps none at all. This is in addition to their possibly becoming sterile or DNA damage which will show up in future generations.
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File Type: pdf 13-84 11-18-2013 Toril H. Jelter MD.pdf (46.2 KB, 8 views)
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Old Yesterday, 10:55   #507
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5G from space will happen soon

If you are worried about the ozone layer and climate change, what is coming is very bad indeed. If you think EMR is affecting all life on the planet, what is coming is the earth's death-warrant.

A week ago, Elon Musk announced plans to launch 12,000 low-orbit satellites to beam 5G at every square inch of the earth's surface. The first two satellites were launched on a Falcon 9 rocket yesterday. Of Musk's 12,000 satellites, 4,425 will operate at an altitude of 700 miles, and 7,518 will operate at an altitude of 210 miles.

Remember that Musk's SpaceX (the program itself is called Starlink) is only one of ten companies that want to beam 5G down from space and the upper atmosphere. To put these numbers in perspective, in September 2017, there were 1,738 satellites in total orbiting the earth, none of them closer to the earth than 400 miles. Of these, 208 low-flying satellites were used for communications, of which 125 (Iridium and Globalstar) and were for cell phones. None of them provided high speed data or used phased arrays. So 12,000 new satellites is a big deal, and SpaceX is one in ten companies. Even if Musk can launch 100 satellites at a time, that's 120 rocket launches. Another company, OneWeb, plans to launch the first 10 of its 2,400 satellites in May.

The earth's ozone layer is still being depleted, even though it was thought the problem had been solved with the Montreal Protocol. So all these rocket launches to beam 5G from space and the upper atmosphere will have a major impact. And that's before we talk about the effect of 5G.

I attach a letter written to the FCC requesting that Google be denied permission to operate their own 5G from space program. I'm sure there have been other letters (one for each company that wants to do this) and that the FCC is not listening. But you should read it, because it touches on all kinds of issues from health to civil rights to insurance to nature--the latter on page 7.

This is going to go ahead. I have written my own letter of protest, which I sent to the EU yesterday by email and registered mail--attached. But I don't expect it to make much difference because to really make any difference there ought to be millions of protests--millions and millions. I can't see how anyone who loves nature can let this happen--especially the 5G from all those satellites--but I think it will. I think we're about to blast our own planet out of existence and I am really furious because I love it. It is my home, and I can do nothing to protect it.

I don't know if any of you ever read a Neville Shute book called "On the Beach". It describes a family's last few months on earth as they wait for the radiation from a nuclear war to reach them in Australia. The whole earth has been wiped out, the Australians are the only ones left, and soon the radiation will reach them too. The chilling inevitability of that book haunted me for months after I read it. I feel like that now.
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File Type: pdf EU Wireless Complaint.sent.pdf (328.0 KB, 3 views)
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Old Yesterday, 13:16   #508
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Here's a link to the Washington Post article about SpaceX's planned launch of all those 5G satellites: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ow-itll-start/

Note that there is no discussion whatsoever of what all these rocket launches will do to our atmosphere or the ozone layer, and no discussion of how this might affect people or nature. But one no longer expects such discussion from the mainstream media. They're too busy selling 5G as an unalloyed good.

Last edited by Purple Heron : Yesterday at 13:21.
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Old Yesterday, 13:39   #509
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i read most of this thread and some of the articles quite open mindedly. neither or any of the 'sides' particularly convinced me. simply because i do not have enough background and do not just react to fear.

however i will add a true anecdote. a relative of mine is a highly qualified and experienced telecomms engineer. he started as an opponent to any view of radiation harm from microwave or telecomms frequencies but as a solid and pragmatic individual he did his research including internal reports from a major telecomms provider. subsequently he became a vegan, left his job and moved his family to country Australia with poor coverage.
his feelings were that it is not one cause but an accumulation of factors that are causing ill health amongst humans not just insects and birds. he refuses tin foil hats or underwear but has dumped the tv and most electrical and plastics based goods and uses a landline phone and that rarely.

we are all of us involved in very complex technical society and the background includes war and death of many species. it is good to have threads like this that remind us to at least examine our culture and the parameters within which we live. always a balance such as good comms, medicines etc save lives but the cost may be fatal elsewhere. do not expect governments or businesses to respond or care, the motivations are not altruistic or simple. as a species we know we do harm, anyone can see that, but weighing it up relies on these types of thread and importantly, the debate. time will tell, it always does. if too late, well, it is a big universe and solipsism in the face of that seems petty. keep exploring and arguing, sometimes we learn in time.
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Old Today, 08:30   #510
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@ jape Thank you for that. You should ask your relative what he thinks of 5G from space and wireless electricity (see my next post).
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Old Today, 09:17   #511
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Note that there is no discussion whatsoever of what all these rocket launches will do to our atmosphere or the ozone layer, and no discussion of how this might affect people or nature. But one no longer expects such discussion from the mainstream media. They're too busy selling 5G as an unalloyed good.
In your opinion, what accounts for the mainstream media’s failure to engage in such discussion?
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Old Today, 09:42   #512
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The Jolly Green Giants

All my life, people have been suspicious of mega-corporations and government ties with them. Petrochemical companies. Big Pharma. Arms manufacturers. Pesticide giants like Monsanto. A lot of the pushback against these corporate monsters has typically come from people who are fairly young, and often very committed, who see themselves as battling for human rights and a greener, more sustainable way of living. This is as it should be: the illusions tend to get knocked out of people as they get older, and life's realities grind them down, so they lose hope. Winston Churchill once said words to the effect of, "If a man is not a socialist when he is twenty, he has no heart. If he is still a socialist at forty, he has no brains." People tend to grow more conservative with age, and more prone to taking the world as it is, saying, "I may not like the way things are, but what can I do about it?" Society needs youth to fight for social and planetary justice.

This makes what is happening now in the world--the wireless revolution--all the more disturbing. Because the very age group, the very constituency that should be opposing the rapacious giant mega-corporations, tech and telecoms, is all signed on to the wireless revolution with their tongues hanging out for the next app and the next upgrade. When youth is subverted, all is lost. Today's youth seems to have forgotten that Big Business is the enemy.

The giant tech and telecoms companies of the wireless industry--the Jolly Green Giants--have learned from the mistakes of their predecessors and have branded themselves as jolly and green. They have worked very hard to create a "green" image of themselves in all sorts of ways. They partner with nature NGOs, sponsoring environmental good works where these do not conflict with their own goals. They design apps the NGOs can use--apps to identify bees or beetles or birds, or apps to help you find them. They work extraordinarily hard to persuade you to take their devices out into the countryside. "Think outside the box" proclaims IBM, showing you an image of a man working on his laptop while he surveys the view. Somehow these corporations have managed to persuade an entire generation that wireless is clean and harmless. Their campaign to seduce youth has been extraordinarily effective. Youth is on board, with very few dissenters. Steve Jobs was a hero. Elon Musk is a hero. But the Jolly Green giants are neither jolly nor green. They're just giants, and their products are planet-killers.

I had been wondering why we need 5G from space. Having already covered most of the earth with cell towers, why do we need it beamed at us from satellites as well? What's going on here? Well, I think I just found out. Maybe some of you have already heard about this one, but it was new to me. Have you heard about wireless electricity? It's the newest thing. It's the future. It's sci-fi on steroids.

Words fail me at this point, so watch this video: https://tinyurl.com/y7dnjzof
It won't take you long to get the point. Another jolly green technology to kill the insects and the birds and the trees and us.

Long ago I had a student, Agis whose last name I no longer recall (apologies). He wrote a brilliant story which has always haunted me. It takes place in the aftermath of a nuclear war. The last man alive on earth is wandering around in search of something, anything else which is also alive. Eventually he finds a spiny cactus growing in the desert. It is the only other thing that still survives. So the man embraces the cactus, hugging its spines into his chest.

When Agis wrote that story, wireless hadn't been invented. We could imagine no other technology that could reduce the world to a barren planet. Now we have one. And all the youth think it's a jolly good thing.
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