buyjng new scopes (1 Viewer)

fender · Apr 7, 2004

Hello everyone, I've just joined the forum. My wife and i are both keen bird watchers, and RSPB members. We are in the process of buying our first scope, and have a budget of around £500 . We have been looking at some in the rspb magazine on Warehouse Express.com , and have whittled it down to three ; the Opticron HR 66 GA, HR 80 GA, and the ES 80 GA ED, all with HDF zooms, and 45 degree eyepieces. All are within our budget on the above website. We will probably opt for one of the 80mm ones, but would appreciate views as to which would be the best to go for,and anyones experiences of these, and the website mentioned.

Regards , Phil. :bounce:

Grousemore · Apr 7, 2004

Hi Phil and welcome to Birdforum from the Moderators and Admin.
You've come to the right place,a lot of Opticron users here,who I'm sure will give you their opinion in due course.
Enjoy the Site!

alan_rymer · Apr 7, 2004

fender

Out of that list the ES 80 GA ED has high density glass and so you see a better image in more extreme light conditions, unfortunately you need a tripod too!. On warehouse express that scope and eyepiece was £528, but its probably the best scope for that price in the UK!.

pduxon · Apr 7, 2004

Hi fender

welcome to the forum.

The ES80 ED is a fine scope I use it myself as do alot of BFers.

Also consider the Kowa 613 which you can get with a tripod for £500 from Warehouse express.

scampo · Apr 7, 2004

fender said:
Hello everyone, I've just joined the forum. My wife and i are both keen bird watchers, and RSPB members. We are in the process of buying our first scope, and have a budget of around £500 . We have been looking at some in the rspb magazine on Warehouse Express.com , and have whittled it down to three ; the Opticron HR 66 GA, HR 80 GA, and the ES 80 GA ED, all with HDF zooms, and 45 degree eyepieces. All are within our budget on the above website. We will probably opt for one of the 80mm ones, but would appreciate views as to which would be the best to go for,and anyones experiences of these, and the website mentioned.

Regards , Phil. :bounce:

Hi Phil

You have not mentioned the bargain of the decade at Warehouse Express - they are still (I think) selling the Nikon ED78 at less than half original price. It is now a discontinued scope but many birders here have them and have commented very highly indeed. The scope is top notch and uses top quality ED glass, giving a brilliantly sharp, bright and wide image. It is £599 with 38xW - a very decent eyepiece indeed. It would also be fine for digiscoping if you ever consider that option.

Also, Warehouse Express are still selling the Kowa 613 - a beautiful small scope, again with ED glass. I would go for the 30xW option unless you really feel the need for a zoom. Of the Opticrons, the two to go for are the ES80 (ask for the one with ED glass as they now sell a non-ED version - ED glass reduces colour fringing in the image) and the HR66ED.

pduxon · Apr 7, 2004

scampo said:
You have not mentioned the bargain of the decade at Warehouse Express - they are still (I think) selling the Nikon ED78 at less than half original price. It is now a discontinued scope but many birders here have them and have commented very highly indeed. The scope is top notch and uses top quality ED glass, giving a brilliantly sharp, bright and wide image. It is £599 with 38xW - a very decent eyepiece indeed. It would also be fine for digiscoping if you ever consider that option.

Also, Warehouse Express are still selling the Kowa 613 - a beautiful small scope, again with ED glass. I would go for the 30xW option unless you really feel the need for a zoom. Of the Opticrons, the two to go for are the ES80 (ask for the one with ED glass as they now sell a non-ED version - ED glass reduces colour fringing in the image) and the HR66ED.

I did mention the Kowa !! The Nikon doesn't include a 'pod does it? Good buy though.

fender · Apr 7, 2004

Thanks for the welcome Grousemore, i'm sure that i am going to enjoy the forum, and exchanging views with other users.
Thanks, to you other guys aswell for your responses. Things seem to be pointing in favour of the Opticron ES 80 ED at the moment ( i've looked at the Nickon mentioned, but adding a zoom, would exeed my budget). Nobody has mentioned the HR 80 GA yet, and it is a nitrogen waterproof model,and i can see no word about the ES 80 ED having nitrogen. Is this a desirable feature to have ? , i also thought that the HR 80 GA was a little better build quality. Would someone please comment on this.

Phil.

pduxon · Apr 7, 2004

never used the hr80.

Your best bet is to compare the two side by side. The HR80 is alot heavier!! about 450grams. You have to lug it around

fender · Apr 7, 2004

Thanks Pete i take your point about the weight, incidentally,which would you prefer, the Kowa, or the Opticron?
Phil.

scampo · Apr 7, 2004

fender said:
Thanks for the welcome Grousemore, i'm sure that i am going to enjoy the forum, and exchanging views with other users.
Thanks, to you other guys aswell for your responses. Things seem to be pointing in favour of the Opticron ES 80 ED at the moment ( i've looked at the Nickon mentioned, but adding a zoom, would exeed my budget). Nobody has mentioned the HR 80 GA yet, and it is a nitrogen waterproof model,and i can see no word about the ES 80 ED having nitrogen. Is this a desirable feature to have ? , i also thought that the HR 80 GA was a little better build quality. Would someone please comment on this.

Phil.

The 80ED is watertight, so will almost certainly be "nitrogen purged" (the nitrogen simply rids the inner air of oxygen thus preventing any chance of mould growth, etc). The HR80GA is more expensive than the Nikon and is a very heavy, large scope.

The Nikon would undoubtedly give a better image than the Opticron - but you are correct on the zoom cost (esp. as the MCII 25-75 is the one to go for) - but don't be oversold on a zoom; many birders know that a fixed wide angle is preferable - the Nikon 38xW is a super eyepiece and with the Nikon ED78 at £599-00 is, frankly, a relative steal. All zooms offer a narrow field of view and this makes locating a bird far more difficult than with any wide angle eyepiece.

Have a look at this review first, as you might find your budget more elastic!

http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm

bill lord · Apr 8, 2004

scampo said:
The Nikon would undoubtedly give a better image than the Opticron - but you are correct on the zoom cost (esp. as the MCII 25-75 is the one to go for) - but don't be oversold on a zoom; many birders know that a fixed wide angle is preferable - the Nikon 38xW is a super eyepiece and with the Nikon ED78 at £599-00 is, frankly, a relative steal. All zooms offer a narrow field of view and this makes locating a bird far more difficult than with any wide angle eyepiece.

Have a look at this review first, as you might find your budget more elastic!

http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm

I looked at the ES 80 as well as the Nikon a few weeks ago when I bought my new scope, and it had many things going for it. But the image quality on the Nikon was just so much better than the ES80, no chromatics was the first thing I noticed and then the true clear and very sharp image on the Nikon sold it to me. I bought it with a 25-75 eyepiece and it's great, but I shall be looking at the fixed eyepieces before very long. The field of view on the zoom lens makes finding things very much more difficult and there is little difference between the opticron zoom and the Nikon zoom for this, my previous scope had a 20x eyepiece which is my comparison. The high zoom values are very usable if the light is bright and even when not the image is still clear and sharp. The downside of the Nikon in comparison with the ES80 is that it is not waterproof just water resistant, this does not seem to be a problem, my last scope did not even have the same level of protection as this one and in three years it never posed a problem, plus the Nikon literature says that it will have no problem with a bit of rain on it but it wil not like being immersed in water.
You are unlikely to find an ED 78 to look through in any shop the last supplies seem to be available from Warehouse Express, but if you go into somewhere that sells the ED 82 and look at that you will not notice a lot of difference if you did decide to buy the Nikon.

scampo · Apr 8, 2004

I think the ED78 is for all intents and purposes waterproof, Bill. As you say, it won't stand the pressure of total immersion in water but how many times do we drop our scope in the river?

It's difficult to describe easily the very high qualities of the Nikon image - but, as you say, it is outstandingly good.

pduxon · Apr 8, 2004

scampo said:
The 80ED is watertight, so will almost certainly be "nitrogen purged" (the nitrogen simply rids the inner air of oxygen thus preventing any chance of mould growth, etc). The HR80GA is more expensive than the Nikon and is a very heavy, large scope.

The Nikon would undoubtedly give a better image than the Opticron - but you are correct on the zoom cost (esp. as the MCII 25-75 is the one to go for) - but don't be oversold on a zoom; many birders know that a fixed wide angle is preferable - the Nikon 38xW is a super eyepiece and with the Nikon ED78 at £599-00 is, frankly, a relative steal. All zooms offer a narrow field of view and this makes locating a bird far more difficult than with any wide angle eyepiece.

Have a look at this review first, as you might find your budget more elastic!

http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm

The HR80GA is not more expensive than the Nikon the ED is !!

You maybe right on the Nikon, indeed probably are, but the one time you compared the two you weren't convinced!! You seem to have changed your tune when you bought the NIkon!!

pduxon · Apr 8, 2004

fender said:
Thanks Pete i take your point about the weight, incidentally,which would you prefer, the Kowa, or the Opticron?
Phil.

Phil

don't know, haven't compared the two side by side. The Kowa is very light which should appeal. As much as I've had a little dig at Scampo I'd agree the HR80 is too heavy.

Your problem with the Nikon is that you won't be able to compare it with another scope ditto the Kowa they are end of lines.They almost certainly represent excellent value BUT you may end up buying something you don't get on with. The ED78 should outperform the ES80.

An example at Minsmere Dave Smith and his wife both had the same (I think) Opticron bins his were x42 and hers x32 but he couldn't get on with hers at all.

At the end of the day if you can't compare two scopes you are taking a risk with it. Although the Kowa and Nikon are both very well regarded scopes.

I'm sure you realise you have to put in a tripod in to your budget. Which is a further £100 ish

bill lord · Apr 8, 2004

pduxon said:
Phil
Your problem with the Nikon is that you won't be able to compare it with another scope ditto the Kowa they are end of lines.They almost certainly represent excellent value BUT you may end up buying something you don't get on with. The ED78 should outperform the ES80.

The ED 78 does outperform the ES80 put the two together and there is no comparison.

pduxon said:
At the end of the day if you can't compare two scopes you are taking a risk with it. Although the Kowa and Nikon are both very well regarded scopes.

A very good comparison for the ED 78 can be got by trying the ED82 with the ES 80, there is very little to choose between the 78 and the 82. If you really want to have a look at the ED 78 then the best way to do this is to buy one from Warehouse Express and if you do not like it simply return it within their 7 day period, they are a good firm to deal with.

pduxon said:
I'm sure you realise you have to put in a tripod in to your budget. Which is a further £100 ish

If you decide upon the ES 80 then In Focus do a good deal with their tripod, which is £40 if you buy a scope from them.

I've been having more thouhts on eyepieces. The 38X eyepiece that warehouse Express have on the ED 78 for £549 straight or £599 angled has almost exactly the same field of view as the 25-75 zoom at it's lowest setting, so you would not be getting any real advantage in the ability to find things, and it must have a disadvantgae in that the brightness of the image will be less at 38x than it would at 38x.

pduxon · Apr 8, 2004

bill lord said:
The ED 78 does outperform the ES80 put the two together and there is no comparison.

Bill I say probably because indiviudal eyes are different. Nothing is black and white. Some users just don't get on with individual pieces of kit. I'd acccept that 95% of people would agree with you. However the following comparison is interesting.....

scampo said:
With a friend I was able to compare an ES80 with 20-60x zoom today in dull conditions at Rutland Water against the new Nikon Fieldscope 82 with equivalent zoom. The ES80 was very bright and sharp except at 60x when the image was a little disappointing; certainly - to our surprise, it compared well with the Nikon in every way.

But, we then had the chance to look through an Opticron HR66GAED and...

to the both of us, it proved the best of the three at all magnifications - bright, clear, sharp...

Now this is thoroughly confusing - I thought the Nikon would wipe the floor with the Opticrons. Absolutely it didn't and the 66mm seemed to be a gem - and, as I say, viewing conditions were trying. Sadly I hadn't got my son's Swarovski 65ED with me but, you know, I have a sneaky feeling that the Opticron 66 would have stood up well.

Sorry Steve!!

scampo · Apr 8, 2004

pduxon said:
The HR80GA is not more expensive than the Nikon the ED is !!

You maybe right on the Nikon, indeed probably are, but the one time you compared the two you weren't convinced!! You seem to have changed your tune when you bought the NIkon!!

Ah well - I am doomed to remain confused over the model numbers of the Opticron scopes. I do think they should get their range sorted out as it just doesn't inspire confidence when there are so many closely similar models some of which are this and some of which are that...

(-:

I don't think the differences between top scopes are vast - and the Opticron zoom + ES80ED is exceptionally good value for money. But the Nikon scopes offer a more solid, brighter image - but so they should as they costs a lot more (except the Warehouse Express offer on the ED78 makes it about the same price). The Nikon scopes also have a more strongly constructed quality.

Happy Easter, btw, Pete!

pduxon · Apr 8, 2004

scampo said:
Ah well - I am doomed to remain confused over the model numbers of the Opticron scopes. I do think they should get their range sorted out as it just doesn't inspire confidence when there are so many closely similar models some of which are this and some of which are that...

(-:

I do feel that the Nikon scopes offer a better image - but so they should as they costs a lot more (except the Warehouse Express offer on the ED78 makes it about the same price). The Nikon scopes also have a more strongly constructed quality.

Happy Easter, btw, Pete!

Fully agree with the first point!!!!

Happy Easter - Steve

scampo · Apr 8, 2004

pduxon said:
I'm sure you realise you have to put in a tripod in to your budget. Which is a further £100 ish

Or buy from In Focus and get their bargain £39-95 tripod offer when you buy it with a scope!

scampo · Apr 8, 2004

pduxon said:
Bill I say probably because indiviudal eyes are different. Nothing is black and white. Some users just don't get on with individual pieces of kit. I'd acccept that 95% of people would agree with you. However the following comparison is interesting.....

Sorry Steve!!

I have to say that testing the scopes in the In Focus shop at Rutland Water on that day, the HR66ED did impress me a good deal. I haven't had another chance to try it out, though - although I have seen a few around. What made me go for the ES80 in the end was that it was cheaper than the HR66ED (oddly!) and the same weight - but then, if you recall, I had so many problems with marks and air bubbles in the Opticron scopes and zoom eyepieces that in the end I gave up and paid up for a Nikon ED82A (and have never looked back - although it's now with Nikon being repaired after my little accident).

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