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ID Help, Kuala Sepetang, Peninsular Malaysia (1 Viewer)

jasnjohn

Well-known member
I saw this guy perched on a fence post on a boardwalk through a mangrove forest.

The wife and I narrowed it down to the following:
Blue Throated Flycatcher
Rufous Breasted Bush Robin
Mangrove Blue Flycatcher
Malaysian Blue Flycatcher,

I reckon it's the Robin, but the wife says Blue-throated Flycatcher.

Please help us settle this dispute!!! (please)

Thanks,
John
:storm:
 

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Well John, I hope you like eating Crow! At least, as far as it not being a Bush-Robin. It is certainly a Cyornis, and to now I think rufigastra. However, Rasmus does not agree with this ID and I will try to go back later tonight and look better.
 
jasnjohn said:
Blue Throated Flycatcher
Rufous Breasted Bush Robin
Mangrove Blue Flycatcher
Malaysian Blue Flycatcher

Rufous-breasted and Malaysian are relatively easy to exclude based on throat pattern. Habitat would clearly favour Mangrove, but I'm not quite sure about that throat pattern as it really does look very like Blue-throated of the race dialilaema. Now, here comes the problem: Based on Robson's excellent guide this throat pattern with a dark chin wouldn't be expected in Mangrove in SE Asia. However, there are a number of photos on OBI that show a Mangrove with a strikingly similar pattern. Could they be mis-ID'ed? Yes, that's a possibility, but one of the photos show an adult with a juvenile. That would present a problem if it had been a Blue-throated, as that species supposedly doesn't breed in Peninsular Malaysia. Here's the photo:

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...esult&Bird_ID=2635&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Oh well. At least I'm pretty sure it isn't a Pink-headed Duck.
 
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Dr Manjeet hasn't been taking his paints out and colouring the birds around this area he would do anything to say he had seem some species and going by his brding trip reports he could get up to anything :bounce: .


Seriously hope you get its ID sorted
 
Rasmus Boegh said:
Rufous-breasted and Malaysian are relatively easy to exclude based on throat pattern. Habitat would clearly favour Mangrove, but I'm not quite sure about that throat pattern as it really does look very like Blue-throated of the race dialilaema. Now, here comes the problem: Based on Robson's excellent guide this throat pattern with a dark chin wouldn't be expected in Mangrove in SE Asia. However, there are a number of photos on OBI that show a Mangrove with a strikingly similar pattern. Could they be mis-ID'ed? Yes, that's a possibility, but one of the photos show an adult with a juvenile. That would present a problem if it had been a Blue-throated, as that species supposedly doesn't breed in Peninsular Malaysia. Here's the photo:

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...esult&Bird_ID=2635&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

The habitat and location are spot on for Mangrove Blue. All male Mangrove Blue Flycatchers I have seen have had a dark chin (incidentally, the same is true for Tickell's Blue, which also isn't supposed to have one!). I think it more likely that illustrations are less than accurate than that all the MBF photos on OBI are misidentified.

Admittedly, John's bird seems to have a very extensive dark chin, but could that be a photographic artefact?

The late and much-missed Laurence Poh has an excellent photo of MBF showing a dark chin at this link:

http://www.laurencepoh.com/gallery/flycatchers/Mangrove_Blue_0276

Dave
 
jasnjohn said:
She's never going to let me forget this one.

John,
Don't worry about that! I hope you do not think bird identification is easy for anyone. I have always considered it almost an "arcane art"!
 
Dave B said:
The habitat and location are spot on for Mangrove Blue. All male Mangrove Blue Flycatchers I have seen have had a dark chin (incidentally, the same is true for Tickell's Blue, which also isn't supposed to have one!). I think it more likely that illustrations are less than accurate than that all the MBF photos on OBI are misidentified.

Admittedly, John's bird seems to have a very extensive dark chin, but could that be a photographic artefact?

The late and much-missed Laurence Poh has an excellent photo of MBF showing a dark chin at this link:

http://www.laurencepoh.com/gallery/flycatchers/Mangrove_Blue_0276

True regarding Tickell's, although it is so small that it barely is visible in that species (at least I've barely been able to see it in the individuals I've seen) and there also seem to be some racial variation involved. Anyway, for the bird discussed in this thread: How do we discount Blue-throated of the race dialilaema? Annoyingly, I've actually seen this taxon, but it's just too long ago and I don't remember the details (and a check in my database suggest it was ID'ed by voice, so I may not even have noticed). As already noted; Mangrove would be most likely due to habitat (and that's the one I'm leaning towards too), but Blue-throated can frequently be seen in that habitat too - so making an ID based only on habitat is far from reliable in this case. Anyone here on BF know for sure how to separate these two and if it doable from a photo like the one in this thread?
 
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Rasmus Boegh said:
Anyone here on BF know for sure how to separate these two and if it doable from a photo like the one in this thread?

Given the quality of the photo, I would in the best case have viewed this only as a probable identification.
 
I greatly appreciate the efforts all have given to this.
It's the first time i've really posted an ID helper, and I'm amazed to see the enthusiasm you all have for helping others.
My apologies of the quality of photo taken, it was dark, he was far away, but as you can see from the threads this little guy has generated, there is reasonable cause for confusion as to his ID.

Thanks again for your help.
 
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