Please share your expertise with a novice. (1 Viewer)

Hello, I’m just beginning to get into birding and I’d really like to get some binocular buying advice from the knowledgeable folks on this site. I wear glasses and tend to have a problem when looking through binoculars, not being able to see one image but rather getting double vision, so I purchased an Orion 10-25 zoom monocular. While this is a pretty neat device I’ve found that it’s not really ideal, and I think I might be better off with binoculars that I can better stabilize against my face.

I’ve got an old a Bushnell 7-15 x 35 Hillary Legend and old cheap Tasco 10 x 50 and both have the double vision problem for me. (Others see fine through them). I’ve tried a friend’s Nikon Monarch 8 x 42 that work properly for me, but they are more than I’d like to spend.

I’d like to keep the price $100 - $200. I was looking at 8 x 42s and considering the Zen-Ray ZRS HD (SUMMIT) 8x42 Waterproof Binoculars because all the excellent reviews but started reading on this site about the 7 x 42s and 8 x 32s, so now I’m a bit confused as to the best pair for me. Here are some details, please let me know what you recommend:

• Wear glasses with highly corrected vision (pushing 50 so eyes getting worse all the time)
• Fairly close set eyes (The Monarchs had to be set at the closest position to work)

• Female – I haven’t seen anything about specific glasses for men or women, but I should think it must make some difference in handgrip, etc?

• I’d like to get a waterproof pair, and was interested in the Sightron II until I learned that the focus is difficult in colder climates. I live in New England, so that one is out.

• I would prefer one of the roof prism style to help keep the weight down

• Should I be looking for something with a dielectric coating? That is another reason I was looking at the Zen-Ray Summit

Please let me know what you recommend. And thank you for your suggestions and for having such an informative forum!

I have a pair of Zen Ray Summits I will sell you like new not one mark on them. They are great optics I am just upgrading to something much more expensive. I will say the really are very bright and clear optics. $145 plus shipping and they are your's OOPs these are 10x42 sorry.
Taz

Hello,

The Zen Rays are probably a good choice, but could I suggest the Helios Mistral (not sure if they are available in the states), Barr and Stroud sahara, hawke naturetrek or viking navilux. It's probably worth testing a few models which are slightly above your budget then seeing if your able to find a pair secondhand. If you only have small hands, its probably worth going for a pair of 8x32's as at this price range there wont be a particularly big difference in light intake or field of view. Im sure there will be others who will know of decent places to compare models on your side of the pond. Good luck and happy birding!

Those Nikon Monarch 8x42s you tried have generous eye relief which may have made the difference for you. I suppose there's also a possibility the other models were not adequately collimated for you; others may have been able to compensate (while risking headaches from long term use ||). Also maybe the widely spaced objectives of the porro prism models didn't suit you; this becomes more of an issue when viewing objects at lesser distances.

Looks like generous eye relief and small minimum IPD (for those close set eyes) are the two priorities for you (otherwise the binocular will not be useable). Follow that with the light weight, non-stiff focusing in cold weather, waterproofing and compactness...

Maybe someone can confirm whether the Zen-Ray ZRS HD (SUMMIT) 8x42 satisfy your criteria; their eye relief specs are less than the Nikon Monarch 8x42; but eye relief specs are notoriously unreliable.

Safe bets for sufficient eye relief come in two 6x models : the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 and Eagle Optics Ranger SRT 6x32. The former is a porro design which means it's less slim but not necessarily any heavier than a roof design. Also minimum IPD is very small making it suitable for children. Not sure about minimum ipd on the Eagle Optics Ranger.

It is normal on these forums to recommend to try before you buy. Looks like this may almost be an imperative for you; or at least to puchase from a retailer with generous returns policy.

Good luck.

Hi SLB, the Sightron Blue Sky SII 8x32 is a stunning binocular, comes with all the bells and whistles (waterproof, nitrogen-filled, open-bridge, comfortable focusser etc.) and has generous eye-relief, making it very useable with glasses. It retails in the USA for a lot less than 180 dollars. I bought a secondhand one on this forum, and it's about the best value in a bino that I've experienced, in terms of "bang for buck". Check out the reviews that other forum members have posted.

Thank you for all the advice!

Thank you all, for all the advice! I've realized that there are far more good quality choices in that price range than I ever expected. I think that as suggested my best course of action given the double vision issue I have is to test them out in person, so I'm going to try and find a local store with a good variety.

Any more thoughts on 8x42 vs 8x32 vs 7x42 and now the 6x30 or 6x32 that have now beed suggested? I have to admit that my initial thought was that anything less than 8x magnification would be too low, but since I know this group knows their stuff I will try them out of I can find them.

Depending on your intended application with the binoculars I would certainly say that magnification can be overrated. When I first got into optics I remember reading an expert at the time writing that lower power binoculars can give better image quality because the lower magnification does not show any imperfections in the optical design as well as higher magnification models. So, until you get into the price stratosphere I would say that the lower the magnification the happier you will be with the binocular.

The exceptions to that would be applications that require long-distance birding or can be done from a truly stationary position with support. A good 10x42 in a seated position with a secure rest can be tough to beat if you are trying to pick out details at a good distance.

My suggestions are many of the ones already suggested.

Zen Ray ZRS or Vista
Sightron SII Blue Sky 8x32
Leupold Yosemite 6x30

You might be able to find some deals on the Nikon Monarch 3 or the Bushnell Legend, both in 8x42.

As for which configuration to choose...I tend to prefer larger exit pupils as a rule. So an 8x42 with a 5.2 exit pupil or a 6x30/7x35 with a 5 mm exit pupil are generally easier on eye placement. 8x32s can be fine for most people but do require more careful eye placement than the others mentioned.

Thanks Taz, but I've tried 10x and don't love them. That is why I was looking at 8x.

Thank you for the binocular suggestions Frank. I must admit, I don't really understand what exit pupil means. I will do some research on it when I get a few minutes.

SLB,

Easy enough to understand once you get into the hobby a bit more. Basically if you hold the binocular a few feet out in front of you and look at the ocular lenses (where your eyes look into) and you see the "circle of light" inside the ocular lenses. That is the exit pupil. To determine its size simply divide the objective diameter by the magnification of the binocular. So an 8x56 binocular would have a 7 mm exit pupil. An 8x32 binocular would have a 4 mm exit pupil.

All discussions on human pupil dilation and age aside I tend to prefer larger exit pupils simply for easier eye placement. 4mm is lowest I prefer and only because the 8x32 configuration tends to be more compact and lighter than its full-sized and oversized counterparts. For pure viewing comfort it is tough to beat a 6 mm or 7 mm exit pupil.

Just my opinion of course.

For general use though a 4 mm or 5 mm exit pupil binocular is usually the best compromise in terms of size/weight and viewing comfort....hence the popularity of 8x32, 7x35, 8x42 and 10x42 binoculars.

Sancho said:

"bang for buck"

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Hmm...Can only guess that was something omitted from my abridged version of "Watership Down" o

The 6x30 Leupold Yosemite has for some time now been the standard recommendation at its price point and it seems a good match to your requirements; that was the real route to 6x entering the dialogue. Having said that, for better or worse , your budget does allow you to consider other options encompassing roof prisms designs and higher magnification.

There's a thread here bemoaning how IPD specs can be as untrustworthy as eye relief ones :
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=202565
And post #12 suggests Nikon Monarchs are better than average in this respect. Have just seen that the Eagle Optics Ranger SRT 6x32 has minimum IPD of 58mm according to a review on Eagleoptics site (so looks like a no no); believe the Yosemite's minimum IPD is down at 50mm.

as we were just discussing in the Sightron thread, I think the Sightron 8x32 SII mentioned above may be the perfect budget binocular for females. My wife tried mine and loved them, and her standard pair is also Nikon Monarch. She, like you, requires a binocular that has small IPD (interpupilary distance) and uses her Monarchs in the closest position, and she had no problem seeing the image with the Sightrons. The Sightrons have a very slim barreled design and an open bridge that allows you to wrap your hands around the barrels. And the optics are excellent (better than the Monarch). And they are feather light.

For $180 you can't go wrong with them, or the 8x42 ZRS HD (which will be a bit larger and heavier but also excellent optically).

SLB,
I often wonder why there are so few recommendations for the Vortex 8 x 42 Diamondback when questions like yours come up. It costs just over $200 dollars and it must sell like hotcakes! Just read the 30 reviews on the binocular in the link below. It has a 5 star average over 30 customer reviews and that must be a record at Eagle optics! So don't just take my word for it.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/vortex/vortex-diamondback-8x42-binocular

I have this binocular and I think it is a remarkable bargain at the price. Look at it's specs. It has a very wide FOV, a large center area of sharpness, long eye relief, comfortable eyecups and it is built very solidly. And let me add that it's focuser is the smoothest one I have this side of my very expensive Nikon LXLs and EDG.

If you can see to it to spend $350.00 another binocular with a long and honorable history is the Swift 8.5 x 44 Model 828 which is very popular with people who own it. I also have that one. It is a well designed, solidly constructed, very easy to use binocular still made in Japan.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/swift/swift-audubon-8-5x44-roof-prism-binocular

Eagle Optics has a generous 30 day right to return policy if you do not like the binocular. Check it out.

Bob

Ceasar's comments on the Vortex Diamondback could also be applied to the Zen Ray Vista. I have seen comments stating that the two models are "the same" or very similar. They appear to be very close overall. 23 reviews on it with a 5 star rating. Price is $129.99.

http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/binoculars/vista8x42.html

SLB,

Since the ZRS is already on your short list, I'd think that is a good choice. It has some things you have said you need. One is that the IPD distance goes down to 54mm, which allows use for narrow set eyes better than most binoculars. It is a small binocular, certainly larger than the Sightron, but very little larger than the something like the Diamondback 7x36, so will work well with smaller hands. It has a smoother focuser than the Sightron. I's be tempted to tell you to try that Theron Wapiti LT 8x32, but it has what is likely too large a minimum IPD, but has a much less stiff focuser.

I did not check for IPD, but the Vortex Diamondback at 8x32 is as small an 8x32 binocular as I have ever seen. Too small for my hands actually. Before somebody tells me about the small Leupold Katmai, I am including the Katmai in the statement . Optics on par with the rest of the Diamondback line, and if the IPD will work for you it is a really nice small binocular. 420'fov

The 8 x 32 Diamondback has ER of 12mm. Quite short.

Bob

I have had the ZR Vista 8x42 (essentially the same as the Vortex D'back) and I would recommend the Sightron over it without question in this case. Not only is it cheaper, it's smaller and much lighter and would be better suited for small female hands (this comes from personal experience with the "wife test" on both bins). Furthermore, the Sightron flat out has better optics.

For a female "budget buyer" I would get the Sightron, no question. The Vortex 8x42 D'back is definitely robust and well built but it is 25oz and much bulkier. Even if they are optically equal, the smaller size, slim barrels, open bridge design, MUCH lighter weight, and lower price to boot make it a better fit here.

ceasar said:

The 8 x 32 Diamondback has ER of 12mm. Quite short.

Bob

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Be that as it may, it worked fine when I had my reading glasses on. There's always going to be something less than perfect for somebody .

Strange Little Bird,

You're not so strange to see double images when others do not. As Norm mentioned (Hey! Norm), you are just more sensitive to misalignment than others. So change your user name to Sensitive Little Bird.

Now on the "Little" part, you mentioned the difference btwn men and women (viva la difference!). As far ergonomics, if you are a big boned Eagless, you might have trouble with smaller roofs, but if your you are a Carolina Wren, they should fit you well.

The ER issue is a stickler, because, as mentioned earlier, not all optics companies measure their ER the same way. If they measure from the top EP lens to the focal point, the lens recession (to keep your eyeglasses from hitting the lens) and the twist-up eyecups thickness can take up about 5mm on average.

So if you minus 5mm from the listed ER figure that should give you the approximate useable ER. Average useable eye relief need for eyeglass wearer is 16mm (meaning you would need a bin with 21mm listed ER!). You won't find many of those. If you need more useable ER than 16mm like I do (deep set eyes), fagetabouit.

Also, if you have thick glasses or if they don't fit close to your face or if your eye sockets are deeply recessed (like Glenn Close), that 16mm useable ER figure will also not be accurate.

The best advice for eyeglass wearers is to visit a store that sells binoculars and then try different ones with your glasses on to find out which work best for you.

Ideally, you'd like to see the entire FOV, but then you might end up with only a small selection in your price range. If you buy a WF bin with moderate ER, you could end up seeing as much or more FOV than with a bin with longer ER but smaller FOV.

IOW, even though I don't use eyeglasses with bins myself, if I did and made a recommendation based on what worked for me, it might not work well for you too. Or as they say, YMMV.

If you can wear contact lenses (Toric, if you have astigmatism), the world is your oyster. You could even use Frank's Nikon 7x35 WF with 10mm ER.

If you can't use contact lenses, then you will have limited choices, but out of those, you will find the best one for you, but it might take trying several, hence why I suggested comparing them a sports store. Must be several such stores in the Boston area.

Good Luck!

(Stranger than Fiction) Brock

brocknroller said:

The ER issue is a stickler, because, as mentioned earlier, not all optics companies measure their ER the same way. If they measure from the top EP lens to the focal point, the lens recession (to keep your eyeglasses from hitting the lens) and the twist-up eyecups thickness can take up about 5mm on average.

So if you minus 5mm from the listed ER figure that should give you the approximate useable ER. Average useable eye relief need for eyeglass wearer is 16mm (meaning you would need a bin with 21mm listed ER!). You won't find many of those. If you need more useable ER than 16mm like I do (deep set eyes), fagetabouit.

...

(Stranger than Fiction) Brock

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That hasn't been my experience with dozens of binos. I wear glasses all the time and generally 16-17mm of ER is good enough. Personal variations exist however. I also think most manufacturers measure ER the same way: from the glass surface. Different eyecup designs make the difference in usable ER not different measuring techniques.

Zeiss FL, for instance, recesses the lens only 1mm. At 16mm ER it has generous relief. The Swaro SV is recessed 4mm. And at 20mm relief it provides only a bit more than the Zeiss. I doubt many at all are recessed 5mm. I'm not sure I've ever seen one.

So, Strange Little Bird, ere on the high side and you can't go wrong, but 18-19mm should be plenty for most who wear glasses.

The SV at 20mm has a bit too much for me and I back the eyecups out. I had a Pentax at 22mm and that, again, was too much eye relief. I had to back them out.

Mark