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Scaup & Grebes (Oakland, CA, USA) (1 Viewer)

CalvinFold

CalvinFold

Well-known member
Last three for today. Some verification, one has me stumped:

  1. Greater Scaups. Is there a gender, age, etc. difference between the two birds? Scaups confuse me aside from "if it has a blue beak it's a scaup" around here. So many different plumage combinations.
  2. I was assuming a grebe of some sort, but really have no idea.
  3. Western Grebe?

As always, a big, big thanks for your help.
 

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While I have your attention Fugl, what about gender on this scaup?

Is there a chart online (with photos!) someplace that clarifies all the scaup variations? Or do you just know this from experience?
 

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CalvinFold said:
Pardon my n00b questions, but:

So how did you tell between the Western and Horned grebes?
Click to expand...

Western Grebe is much larger, slenderer, with a much longer neck and bill :t:


BTW, I'm not convinced the scaup are Greater; heads smallish and with the peak toward the front of the crown, and quite coarse marking on the back of the male, suggest Lesser to me. See what others say, though.
 
Nutcracker said:
BTW, I'm not convinced the scaup are Greater; heads smallish and with the peak toward the front of the crown, and quite coarse marking on the back of the male, suggest Lesser to me. See what others say, though.
Click to expand...
I'd be curious if anyone thinks Lesser as well. Reflexively I go with Greater unless I see an obvious "point" to the head, and I've yet to see or photograph a Lesser.

I'm told we can get Lessers, but the vast majority are Greater. We get huge rafts of Scaups this time of the year, and they are some of the last over-wintering birds to leave when Spring rolls around.
 
CalvinFold said:
I'm told we can get Lessers, but the vast majority are Greater.
Click to expand...
That surprises me a bit! Generally in USA, Lesser is the commoner of the two (reverse applies over here in UK, Lesser very rare), but it'll vary locally according to exact habitat, etc. Are these birds on fresh or salt water? In general, Lesser prefer fresh, Greater salt, but again, much overlap.
 
CalvinFold said:
While I have your attention Fugl, what about gender on this scaup?

Is there a chart online (with photos!) someplace that clarifies all the scaup variations? Or do you just know this from experience?
Click to expand...

Male.

You really need to get a field guide at this point, Sibley's "Field Guide to Birds of Western North America" being the one I'd recommend. A glance at his pages on the 2 scaups would tell you all you need to know about field marks and sex and seasonal differences. The Sibley FG is also available as an app which is the form in which I use it on my iPhone and iPad.

And, please, birds have sexes not genders. . .. ;)
 
Fairly certain it's a saltwater or brackish marsh.

You also sent me combing through my Gallery to see if my brain failed me and I mixed-up which I see most often and...yep, they are all Greater scaups in my gallery, and I had help ID'ing those. Sure hope there hasn't been a mixup all this time. ;-p

I'll wait for a bit more consensus before labeling my photos and uploading them.
 
fugl said:
And, please, birds have sexes not genders. . .. ;)
Click to expand...
I could argue the point of my intent vs. "precision of language in an ever-changing special-interest landscape," or even whether your premise is actually true, but I'll simply leave it at...

LOL! :-O

"Sexes" it is then.
 
Nutcracker said:
BTW, I'm not convinced the scaup are Greater; heads smallish and with the peak toward the front of the crown, and quite coarse marking on the back of the male, suggest Lesser to me. See what others say, though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, scaup ID can be tricky so I probably should have been more tentative in my identification, though I still lean toward Greater on head shape. But I take your points. . ..
 
Last edited:
Nutcracker said:
Western Grebe is much larger, slenderer, with a much longer neck and bill :t:


BTW, I'm not convinced the scaup are Greater; heads smallish and with the peak toward the front of the crown, and quite coarse marking on the back of the male, suggest Lesser to me. See what others say, though.
Click to expand...

My understanding has been that a peak toward the front of the crown (tallest point of the head in front of the eye) is suggestive of Greater Scaup. Are there reference to the contrary?
 
rkj said:
My understanding has been that a peak toward the front of the crown (tallest point of the head in front of the eye) is suggestive of Greater Scaup.
Click to expand...

Agreed, at least according to the Sibley guide.

To me they look better for Greater, in addition to head shape there is the relatively large bill size (bird on the left in the first pic more iffy though on bill size)
 
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