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Old Sunday 19th November 2017, 22:34   #26
bluespiderweb
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Thank you

Hi Bruce,

Well, I wouldn't exactly say I reviewed it, but more just my first impressions of some very nice optics, and that I wanted to give some more positive feedback for people who might be on the fence about them, or not aware of the great deal at hand on the auction site from Rogers Sporting Goods. It can't last forever, I'm pretty sure, and why I want others to have them too! ; ) Here's the direct link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bushnell-8x...4AAOSw1BlZVm2T

One of the best deals I've had so far, and not to be missed if you think it's a match for you. It certainly was a perfect match for me, thank you all who made that possible!

And thank you Bruce(and others), for your help, and reviews, and especially Bruce that the 10's might be available on discount too if I keep watch. I imagine them being great too for me, since I often favor 10's.

But I am warming up to the Cabelas 10x32 Euro HD Instinct binoculars (Meostar B1's) now that I also picked up on special, and think they are a really nice bin in the 10x32 range-sharp, very wide open view, in a compact package that may a little more than the lightweights that cost less, but these have the optics that show a difference from the cheaper lot I have on hand right now (Sightron BSII 10x32, Leupold BX3). I will be returning both of those directly, as they don't live up to the Cabelas Euro HD Instincts 10x32's or Bushnell Legend M 8x42's, which for me are both great to use.
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 15:34   #27
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Thanks for the photos, Bruce.

Based on them I would say the ED3 eyecups are now nearly or exactly the same length, however looking at your photos in post #19 as well as post #25 I have some doubts that the ED3 and Legend M are the same binocular. The metal hinge parts are quite different and it looks like the distance between the front of the objective glass and the back of the eyelens glass is shorter for the ED3 than the M.

One sure way to determine if optics are identical is to observe the reflection patterns that return from the lens elements. The photo below shows the identical (but mirror imaged) reflections of the camera flash returning from Zen-Ray and Swarovski 20-60x eyepieces. It's a little tricky to set up a single light source and angle the two binoculars so that the reflection patterns will reach the eye (or camera lens) from exactly the same angle.

Henry
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 16:56   #28
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Originally Posted by henry link View Post
...One sure way to determine if optics are identical is to observe the reflection patterns...The photo below shows the identical...reflections...from Zen-Ray and Swarovski 20-60x eyepieces...
Henry, others (e.g. David, Steve),
Does that mean that Swaro. is also on the Japan list?
What else (from Japan) do Swaro. share with what other makes (unless the list is too long)?
Thank you!
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 17:11   #29
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IIRC, what it means is that the ZR eyepiece is a Chinese clone of the Swaro. As you know the Chinese pay no attention to copyrights, patents, etc.
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 17:24   #30
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The Bushnell looks closer to the Zen ED2 than the ED3, but even then the castings don't quite line up. There were many versions of this basic design, sold by Zen, Hawke, Atlas (Eagle Optics), even Bushnell before now if memory serves. Provided the quality control is there I'd call it a classic design at this point. And I think a real Chinese design at that. It's a nice combination, but unfortunately my ED2 crapped out and Zen did a ridiculously bad job of "repairing" it. I wrote it off. None of these clones are really repairable, at least not from a bottom line perspective. It makes more sense to replace.

As I recall the Chinese reverse engineered that Swaro spotting scope eyepiece. They also reverse engineered a 30x fixed from the Nikon SE eyepiece I think. Henry has a much better grasp of all that history than I do.
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 17:30   #31
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#29: If that is so it that is astonishing to me. Surely ZR observe intellectual property rights? If this matter has been dealt with before in the forum let me not take this thread off topic. I did not think of this at all, but of collaboration in design and/or manufacture, that is why I was reminded of Japan, as there is a current thread on that connection.
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 17:58   #32
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I didn't intend to change the thread subject either. The photo was just to illustrate how to determine if the optics of two instruments are identical.

I doubt that the copying of the Swarovski eyepiece design was done with Swaro's knowledge or permission. I imagine quite a few of these appropriations are just flying under the radar. It's possible that Zen-Ray didn't know where their OEM got the design. That same eyepiece also turned up on the original Vortex Razor scope, an Orion 7.7-23.1mm zoom eyepiece and probably others

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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 23:07   #33
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Originally Posted by henry link View Post
Thanks for the photos, Bruce.

Based on them I would say the ED3 eyecups are now nearly or exactly the same length, however looking at your photos in post #19 as well as post #25 I have some doubts that the ED3 and Legend M are the same binocular. The metal hinge parts are quite different and it looks like the distance between the front of the objective glass and the back of the eye lens glass is shorter for the ED3 than the M.

One sure way to determine if optics are identical is to observe the reflection patterns that return from the lens elements. The photo below shows the identical (but mirror imaged) reflections of the camera flash returning from Zen-Ray and Swarovski 20-60x eyepieces. It's a little tricky to set up a single light source and angle the two binoculars so that the reflection patterns will reach the eye (or camera lens) from exactly the same angle.

Henry
I agree that the two are not exactly the same but the it looks like Bushnell started with the Zen Ray design and made a few modifications where they thought it was needed. An examination of inside the barrels with a light looks the same. I consider them clones with some differences.

The most noticeable area modified is the focus mechanism. That was an area that needed improvement because of all the free play. There is a noticeable difference in the focus housing between the two so that does make them different in that regard but they are still basically the same in many regards. I suspect the front hinge was changed to better match up with the changes to the rear that houses the focus mechanism.

I look at it as what the auto industry does. I bought the first year of a new Ford truck design some years ago. I then bought the last year of that generation about six years later. It was still basically the same truck but there were some styling changes and mechanical improvements and the newer version was a better truck than what first came out for that design.

My take is the ED2 is gen 1.0, the ED3 is gen 2.0, the Bushnell is gen 2.1 and the ED4 is gen 3.0.

The length from the objective surface to the eye piece surface looks the same to me. I think they look different in the photo (post #19) due to placement and camera angle. Also the eye cup looks to extend just a little bit more on the Bushnell. I made a crude modification to my caliber and the measurement looked the same. This was not the most precise measurement possible but I doubt there is any difference. I may try to come up with something with more precision.

The reflection test is pretty neat. I will give it some thought about recreating something similar within my limited means of equipment and technique.
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 00:32   #34
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I agree that the two are not exactly the same but the it looks like Bushnell started with the Zen Ray design and made a few modifications where they thought it was needed. An examination of inside the barrels with a light looks the same. I consider them clones with some differences.

The most noticeable area modified is the focus mechanism. That was an area that needed improvement because of all the free play. There is a noticeable difference in the focus housing between the two so that does make them different in that regard but they are still basically the same in many regards. I suspect the front hinge was changed to better match up with the changes to the rear that houses the focus mechanism.

I look at it as what the auto industry does. I bought the first year of a new Ford truck design some years ago. I then bought the last year of that generation about six years later. It was still basically the same truck but there were some styling changes and mechanical improvements and the newer version was a better truck than what first came out for that design.

My take is the ED2 is gen 1.0, the ED3 is gen 2.0, the Bushnell is gen 2.1 and the ED4 is gen 3.0.

The length from the objective surface to the eye piece surface looks the same to me. I think they look different in the photo (post #19) due to placement and camera angle. Also the eye cup looks to extend just a little bit more on the Bushnell. I made a crude modification to my caliber and the measurement looked the same. This was not the most precise measurement possible but I doubt there is any difference. I may try to come up with something with more precision.

The reflection test is pretty neat. I will give it some thought about recreating something similar within my limited means of equipment and technique.
Bruce and others:

I have a question about the Bushnell L and the M models.

They look identical from photos, and their site mentions the M adds
dielectric prism coatings.

I wonder why the deep discounts at this time. Does anyone know, I suppose
it is a new model coming out.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 00:36   #35
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I had read up widely on the Bushnell Legend-M (looking for an 8x42 in the low-medium price range with very good optics for the price and a wide field of view) before the recent plunge in price at several retailers (and my tip-off which led to a bit of a buying spate!) Many reviews, in websites such as this, and by users in retailers' sites, strongly criticized a very stiff focus knob. See the first post in this thread, 7-8 months ago. The problem seemed to me to be too widespread to be a QC issue in a factory batch. Now it seems that Bushnell has fixed it. So maybe it is 2.11 on Bruce's scale! The price plunge after this is a mystery to me. As I am about to send this in this I see Jerry's post.

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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 01:08   #36
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Bruce and others:

I have a question about the Bushnell L and the M models.

They look identical from photos, and their site mentions the M adds
dielectric prism coatings.

I wonder why the deep discounts at this time. Does anyone know, I suppose
it is a new model coming out.

Jerry
Jerry.... I wonder if we are looking at different models when it comes to the Legend L. What I understand to be the Legend L is on the left and the M is on the right. Specs show a length of 5.5 inches for the L and 6.5 for the M. Do you have a link to the picture of the Legend L you are looking at?

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You might be right about it being discontinued. That was my thought when the 10X42 M was offered as a one day sale a couple of months ago on Amazon. I called Bushnell at the time and the rep said he had not heard of it being discontinued and his information at that time showed it as being current. Sometimes the reps are the last to know of these changes!

The Bushnell site still shows the M as current model on the web site under the hunting category. It is not listed under the Wildlife category and that was also true a couple of months ago when I checked. It is strange not to list it as a wildlife binocular because I think the wide FOV and natural color balance are great attributes for bird watching.

The way it is currently being sold sure indicates it is a closeout but who knows. What is interesting is there are not currently any great discounts on the 10X right now. If the model is going away, then it I would think it should also be heavily discounted. Beats me!
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 01:12   #37
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Bruce:

You are correct there, with your photos.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 15:22   #38
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I had read up widely on the Bushnell Legend-M (looking for an 8x42 in the low-medium price range with very good optics for the price and a wide field of view) before the recent plunge in price at several retailers (and my tip-off which led to a bit of a buying spate!) Many reviews, in websites such as this, and by users in retailers' sites, strongly criticized a very stiff focus knob. See the first post in this thread, 7-8 months ago. The problem seemed to me to be too widespread to be a QC issue in a factory batch. Now it seems that Bushnell has fixed it. So maybe it is 2.11 on Bruce's scale! The price plunge after this is a mystery to me. As I am about to send this in this I see Jerry's post.
I am just speculating here, but maybe the internet seller mentioned on the bargains thread on this model, received a large shipment of the lots that had some complaints about the focuser. If changes were made, this makes sense.

They show over 100 sold at the 50% off deal, and more available.

I suppose those who have purchased one of these will report back.

The rest of the sellers I have looked at do not have any discount like that.

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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 17:44   #39
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I am just speculating here, but maybe the internet seller mentioned on the bargains thread on this model, received a large shipment of the lots that had some complaints about the focuser. If changes were made, this makes sense.

They show over 100 sold at the 50% off deal, and more available.

I suppose those who have purchased one of these will report back.

The rest of the sellers I have looked at do not have any discount like that.

Jerry
Jerry,

I take it your speculation is that the Rogers Sporting Goods deal on eBay for the 8X42 M is a sellout of a batch of factory seconds.

I doubt that is the case. First, Rogers seems to me to be a very reputable seller. I would expect them to state if it were a second and they do not. The model is listed as New.

Second, all the reports posted so far on the focus in the bargain thread have been good.

- BruceH: The focus checks out fine. There is no free play. It is slightly on the stiff side but I can rotate it with one finger .....
- RioTuitoBirder: .... the focus dial is not too tight or loose. There is no free play in the focusing mechanism .....
- WDC: Focuser is ok, just a bit stiff. Returned due to eye relief not working out.
- Denco@Comcast.n: The focus is perfect ....
- Bluespiderweb: Says he is very pleased but no specific mention on the focus.
- Chill6X6: Still waiting for Chuck to report in.

Note: Looks like RioTuitoBirder did not go through eBay but may have ordered off the Rogers site, but not sure.

It may be that you are right in your previous speculation that the model is being discontinued. It could be that what was left was sold at a large discount to Rogers to liquidate. That approach is not uncommon. It looked like EuroOptics was a big liquidator of the pre Profield EL SV units at great price and similar for Red Hawk Rifles with the gray SF units.

As someone pointed out, B & H Photo is listing it as discontinued but it is not clear if that means B & H has discontinued carrying it or Bushnell has discontinued making it. I did call Rogers and the rep said he was not aware of the model being discontinued, but they did a big order and needed to move some of them. As I mentioned in another post, the reps are sometimes the last to know the real story. Your guess is as good as mine. Whatever the reason for the sale, it is looking to be a very good binocular and is a great deal for the buyer.
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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 04:43   #40
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Bruce,

I had a quick check of the Zens and they have magenta coloured coatings on the objectives, greeny on the prisms, and a bit of a combination on the oculars. I have probably photographed them way back when and posted them on the ED3 thread.

The colour representation seems pretty neutral to me, if anything the transmission peak seems to be in the very bright green region. I have noticed that the blue colour (as on a Superb Fairy Wren etc) seems a little weaker than on other bins I have seen - such as a Zeiss HT or Swarovski SV for instance. I wouldn't call the Zen colour rendition warm by any stretch.

The ED3's use 2nd generation Vividbrite dielectric prism coatings of 40 layers. It is interesting that the 3rd Gen coatings used on the new ED4 are still 40 layer.

I didn't notice any significant differences between the Bushie and the Zen, but the day was quite dull. I know that of a late sunny afternoon my two eyes have very different colour casts anyway - one blue/green, the other golden/orange - this is very distinct and kinda cool

The Bushie tested on Allbino's certainly has a pretty nice transmission curve that bins 10x the price struggle to better, and as to my knowledge no-one has actually seen a transmission curve for the Zen ED3, I would say they would be identical. Can anyone confirm for sure the number of layers used in the Bushie M's dielectric prism coating ??

I much prefer the ergos and particularly the focus speed of the Zen - they are pretty much perfect. I use the thumb indents to brace my thumbs crossed over from the opposite hand (I comfortably hold a 50mm SV), and also find this a super stable hold. I also like the smoother contoured (and unarmoured) bridge of the Zen which I rest my middle fingers on - this gives me absolutely zero gap between focusing forefingers and gripping middle fingers (puts the Zeiss SF to dog-legged shame! :) - the next two I have wrapped around the barrels.

The Bushie is definitely a different (though derivative chassis). The focus wheel I tried had a small amount of backlash of a mil or two. From conversations with Zen-Ray it seems that those that exhibit more tension (stiffer focusers) correspond to less backlash, and vice versa. At least my unit has a nice light smooth focus! :)

I didn't pay great attention to the standoff of the eye cup rim from the ocular lens on the Bushie, but that of the Zens is absolutely minimal - any less and the surface of my glasses might risk contacting the ocular lens. When checking the distortion of the Bushie I could pretty much see all the field, so the difference is not great (I didn't pay great attention to that either as I was marking time until I could get my hands on the 10x SF.

Overall, I wouldn't necessarily say the Bushie is an 'upgrade' to the Zen. The different body and smaller slower (jeez, that would really annoy me) focuser may be more conducive to better backlash tolerances. As you and I have both noted, unit to unit variability is going to play a part in both brands. The eye cups of the Bushie may also suit non-spectacle wearers better, but that's as far as I would hang my hat on differences going.

One thing is for sure, that even if the Bushie's ergos run 2nd to the Zens (for me), if you can get them at half the price ~$200 you are getting a great buy !


Chosun
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C J,

Looks like some of our different conclusions come down to personal preference. Lucky for me that the changes made by Bushnell favor my preferences.

The color of the objectives is interesting. If I understand your comments correctly on your Zen Ray having magenta coloured objective coatings, it makes me wonder if Zen Ray made some mid stream changes.

Here are some photos I took yesterday of the Bushnell Legend M 10X42 and the Zen Ray ED3 10X42. The Bushnell is on the left and the Zen Ray is on the right. The Bushnell looks to lean toward magenta but not my Zen Ray.

Here is a Wiki sample of magenta which leans toward the reds that I see in the Legend M.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magenta

Here is a Wiki sample of cyan that seems to lean more toward what I see in my Zen Ray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyan

How do the objective colors of my Zen Ray compare to what you have?
Bruce,

I double checked and my ED3's were as I described - definitely magenta coatings on the objectives - looks like your photo of your Bushies.

Anyone have any concrete info on the number of coating layers for the dielectric mirror on the Bushie ?

Note: The ED3 and Bushie M definitely have different (though dimensionally similar) bodies. The bridge of the ED3's have no rubber armour over them (just a pleasing textured painted or coated finish), and the top lines up flush with the larger focus wheel.

Also, anyone want to have a crack at putting together some precisely defined stats to see if the backlash extent/ focus stiffness correlation hypothesis holds any water ? (though not as much water as a Leica ! :)

Note also that the diopter adjustment mechanism of my Zens is very positive and precise, and despite what some! on here would say the rather price level appropriate eyecups of the Zens slay those on the 6x more expensive SF for quality for mine !



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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 13:00   #41
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....
Also, anyone want to have a crack at putting together some precisely defined stats to see if the backlash extent/ focus stiffness correlation hypothesis holds any water ? (though not as much water as a Leica ! :)
....



Chosun

I am far from the most experienced person on this forum when it comes to binocular mechanics, so if I am talking nonsense, feel free to correct me, but...

I assume slop noticeable in the focus wheel is most likely a result of poor fitting tolerances of the parts inside the focussing wheel, whereas stiffness can result from other parts as well, such as the resistance of the lenses moving up and down in the tubes, or the resistance of the little adjustment arms through their little airtight sealings.

On the other hand, the only 2 bins I have seen that had slop, had lightly turning focus wheels....

Addition: to ensure lifelong, low friction and high speed functioning of binocular focus wheels, the ball screws might be an option



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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 21:44   #42
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Bruce,

I double checked and my ED3's were as I described - definitely magenta coatings on the objectives - looks like your photo of your Bushies.

Anyone have any concrete info on the number of coating layers for the dielectric mirror on the Bushie ?
..........
Chosun
Well, it looks like Zen Ray did a midstream coating change with the ED3. That may explain why we differ on what we see for color balance.


Legend M Coatings:

The Bushnell web site for the Legend M shows either symbols or states the following coatings.....

- Di-electric coatings
- Ultra wide band coating
- RainGuard HD water repellent lens coating

In addition, the side of the box says ......
- Fully multicoated optics

Strange to say, they make no mention of phase coating but I think it is safe to assume based on performance and price that it has phase coating. I noticed more sites do not mention it any more since they think that is assumed.

Knowing how much you like marketing hype ( ), here is what I found on the Bushnell web site:

DIELECTRIC PRISM COATING: Dielectric coating on the prisms improves reflectance to greater than 90 percent. The result is a deeper, richer and more reproducible color images.

ULTRA WIDE BANDCOATING: This anti-reflection coating process that is customized for every lens element in the optical path, in order to allow the best possible light from the front glass all the way back to the eyepiece. The result is maximum brightness and true color across the light spectrum.

Rainguard® HD: The only state-of-the-art, patented and proprietary hydrophobic and oleophobic lens coating keeps water, fog and oily fingerprints from wrecking your vision. Water drops from rain, snow, sleet and even your own breath bead up into much smaller droplets that scatter less light. Ensuring that you never miss your moment.

PC3 Phase Coating: Our exclusive PC3 Phase Coating is applied to bring each image into sync after it has been halved and rejoined once it has been previously split in a roof prism optical system.

Fully Multi-Coated Optics: All air-to-glass surfaces feature multiple layers of anti-reflective coating. Fully multi-coated optical systems deliver the brightest, highest-contrast images with the least amount of eye strain because only a very small percentage of light is lost before it reaches the viewer's eye. (Part of the fully multicoated designation)

And now for the part you have been waiting for ..........

XTR Technology: Our exclusive XTR technology utilizes 60 layers of coatings on each prism that conserves, harnesses and optimizes the available light. XTR delivers a world-leading 99.73 percent light transmission per lens for a combined light transmission of 90 percent. (Part of the fully multicoated designation)

The web site and the box do not state XTR technology for the Legend M but the box does say fully multicoated and the XTR description on the web site includes the fully multicoated icon. So, there are dots to connect that the Legend M has XTR coating but that is an assumption. Don't you just love the marketing folks that put all of this together for us in such a clear understandable prsentation.
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Old Thursday 23rd November 2017, 02:47   #43
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These very-many-layered coatings have always intrigued me. Opticron have been stating for years that their Oasis coating has 64 layers. Here we have 60. Why so many? Is it that, among these, the same material has to be applied multiple times separately in succession, for some technical reason? What is, typically, the thickness of all the layers together? I shall appreciate it if someone could direct me to an explanation, or briefly explain; this will probably enlighten a lot of readers. Thank you!
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Old Thursday 23rd November 2017, 16:11   #44
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These very-many-layered coatings have always intrigued me. Opticron have been stating for years that their Oasis coating has 64 layers. Here we have 60. Why so many? Is it that, among these, the same material has to be applied multiple times separately in succession, for some technical reason? What is, typically, the thickness of all the layers together? I shall appreciate it if someone could direct me to an explanation, or briefly explain; this will probably enlighten a lot of readers. Thank you!
Hi Adhoc

My understanding of anti-reflection coatings (and I am open to correction by more knowledgable members) is that the coatings work via a process called 'interference'. Each layer applies this 'interference' to a very particular frequency of light, or in other words a colour. And so it is that if 60 coatings are applied, then that coating system vastly reduces the reflection of 60 colours of light. The more layers of coatings are applied the better the degree of control is across the visible light spectrum.

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Old Friday 24th November 2017, 11:34   #45
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What is, typically, the thickness of all the layers together? I
As I understand it, the optimum thickness would be around 150 nanometers for each layer (quarter of lambda of a given wavelenghth the reflection of which shall be dimmed). So 60 layers should be around 10 micrometers (a bit more than I thought it would be before calculating this estimate), but I might be utterly wrong.

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Old Friday 24th November 2017, 19:22   #46
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A large number of layers is probably confined to the prism mirror coating. The graphic below shows the number of layers for Swarovski coatings as they were about 10-15 years ago. The last column shows the number of layers for each type of coating; SWARODUR - 4, SWAROTOP - 3, SWAROBRIGHT - 30, phase coating - 3.
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Old Friday 24th November 2017, 23:18   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocco View Post
As I understand it, the optimum thickness would be around 150 nanometers for each layer (quarter of lambda of a given wavelenghth the reflection of which shall be dimmed). So 60 layers should be around 10 micrometers (a bit more than I thought it would be before calculating this estimate), but I might be utterly wrong.

cheers - cocco
Yes, 1/4 wave is the correct methodology and in the ballpark, a bit less maybe ~8 micron for 60 layers - it's a bit like the KFC recipe - no-one knows the precise ingredients! though it would only apply to the dielectric mirror coating as Henry said. I think I recall seeing somewhere that the latest SWAROBRIGHT mirror coating is 70 layers. It would be interesting to know how this compares to the Zeiss mirror coatings in the x32 FL and SF ??

Bruce, at the price level of the Bushie M, I doubt it has the full fat 60 layers, and given the identical optical train as the Zen, I would think it has the same 40 layers for the mirror coating. I think you might have gone beyond joining potential dots and into drawing a long bow !

Have a look through the Bushie's objective end and tilt the binocular slightly until you are getting a reflection off the prisms - do you see a slightly iridescent bright greeny colour as I do on my Zens ?

Zen lists fully broadband multicoated optics at each glass/air interface as having 99.7% transmission, though dielectric mirror 'transmission' of an S-P prism is typically only around ~99%. As no-one has ever seen a transmission graph of the Zen ED3, I think the overall transmission and colour rendition (in my unit anyway) is pretty much identical to the Bushie M ~90% o/all ....... very nice for the price, and sensational for 160USD !

My Zens are the upgraded model (with maybe a later generation of coatings than your unit) with absolutely minimal standoff (rim to ocular lens surface) eyecups in order to increase ER for glasses wearers - are your eyecups the same?



Chosun

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Old Saturday 25th November 2017, 18:52   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Bruce.... I think you might have gone beyond joining potential dots and into drawing a long bow !
..............
Chosun
That could be! Just because the dot connect does not mean they follow the correct path, thus the comment about it only being an assumption. I always wonder how the general marketing hype that describes the product technology, such as XTR coatings, can apply across the board since different models come from different manufacturers. I suspect each uses their own coatings.

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................
Have a look through the Bushie's objective end and tilt the binocular slightly until you are getting a reflection off the prisms - do you see a slightly iridescent bright greeny colour as I do on my Zens ?

Chosun
I gave it a try but I did not pick up any color reflections off the prism. Sorry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
.........
My Zens are the upgraded model (with maybe a later generation of coatings than your unit) with absolutely minimal standoff (rim to ocular lens surface) eyecups in order to increase ER for glasses wearers - are your eyecups the same?

Chosun
Check out the photos in post #25 to see how the Zen Ray eyecups on my unit compare to the one you have.

My Zen Ray ED3 10X43 was received direct from Zen Ray in June, 2013. It was a replacement from Charles for my original unit received in April, 2013 that had a diopter setting problem out of the box. I am not sure why it took a while to get the replacement out. Maybe he was waiting on a new shipment to arrive.
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Old Monday 27th November 2017, 05:18   #49
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Thanks everyone. The question now is, what exactly is hidden within that mysterious "1x30" in the superb diagram conveyed by Henry, or in the 60 or 70 "layers"*? Is it in principle only what Lee has explained or are there other layers for different purpose/s?

Also I would very much like to see a video of any coating/s being applied to a lens or prism but all the relevant videos I have yet found on the internet (all or nearly all on YouTube) on the making of binoculars skip showing this! Thanks for any tip-off here.

*all of different composition, or some materal/s applied more than once in succession

Last edited by adhoc : Monday 27th November 2017 at 06:04.
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Old Monday 27th November 2017, 07:48   #50
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Adhoc,

I don't know a lot about the various deposition technologies, but generally you just see the lenses loaden into a carousel. The rest takes place in a sealed vacuum chamber where you couldn't use a camera. This video from Edmunds Scientific seems a reasonable introduction, and the various videos on optical coating from Balzers, Opti-tec and others give some indication of the sophistication of some of the machines.
https://youtu.be/rZrq6frnheQ

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