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Have Nikon given up competing with the big three? (1 Viewer)

Nikon snuck up on the birders because they were all preoccupied with what Swaro, Leica, and Zeiss were doing with new bins.
In the camera world Nikon shows it hand at the last minute (same here).

Look how many publications are dedicated to hunting. Most of whom buy optics.

Birders might be the most demanding bino users... but by far, not the biggest market.
 
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What about this relationship?

CA(tot) = m*CA(obj) + CA(eyepiece)

I don't think the aberrations are additive. Both CA and spherical aberrations can be corrected in an eyepiece.

Your earlier post, where you indicated that what matters is the combination of all the elements makes the most sense to my way of thinking.

Regarding the prisms, astronomers and microscopists often place a binocular viewing attachment (including a beam splitter) between an objective and an eyepiece, and as far as I am aware they do not introduce noticeable CA. And I think they work okay with fast objective (~F5). An amateur astronomer might be able to confirm this. Although the incident light is not perpendicular, I guess it is close enough.

What we really need is someone who has designed binocular optics, but I guess they have better things to do than to explain the basics to hobbyists.
 
Leif,

Thanks for the response. Please let me go a bit further into my thinking, which I hope isn't considered being argumentative.

When I wrote the equation I was thinking in vector/matrix terms, since lateral CA is not a single quantity, but rather a non-linear function of field angle. I believe this function is symmetric around the principle axis, but it has a different shape for each lens design.

An aerial image produced by the objective appears at its image plane inside the binocular, and contains lateral CA (including any contributions by the prism). This image is input to the eyepiece, which magnifies the aerial image for projection onto the retina. Along with that, the CA vector is also magnified by m, as noted by Dorian in an earlier post, i.e., m*CA(obj)

Could not the design of the eyepiece, which involves many lens elements, attempt to make (by design optimization):

—CA(eyepiece) = m*CA(obj)

again, thinking of these as vectors? Note that the sign is opposite, and if the two non-linear functions were matched the CA of the eyepiece would exactly cancel that of the objective. If the two functions were not matched exactly, but of opposite sign, then only the residual would be seen at the eye.

Continuing merrily along this happy line of thought, and assuming the eyepiece did correct some/all of CA(obj), would not the information lost at the image plane of the objective also be recovered in the final image at the retina?

Ed
 
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...are hunters a bigger tarket market than birders?

Here in the USA the hunting optics market has historically been much bigger than the birding market, and with the exception of Swift and Bausch & Lomb, the optics makers appeared to pay little if any attention to the birding market and birder's evaluations until Steve Ingraham/Better View Desired and recent years. Birding is taken much more seriously by business than it was a decade ago but I'm not sure about the market share percentage. Despite the supposed growth in interest in birding and declining numbers of hunters, most wildlife refuges are still managed to meet the needs of hunters (and game species), not wildlife watchers. I've always been told that birders were cheap (reluctant spenders), even the rich ones, in comparison to hunters. As far as I know from my own experiences, that's true.

As for the new Nikon EDG, I've always been a big fan of Nikon optics but there is one feature that is shared by all their top models that I find INFURIATING and which the EDG seems unfortunately to have inherited (as far as I can tell from the pics). The placement of the (unnecessarily robust) strap lugs is not lateral enough to allow them to lie flat against one's chest. Instead, I find they hang ocular end outward and rock forward/back and side to side instead of hugging my body. This is a deal breaker for me when it comes to judging a binocular field worthy. I hope I'm wrong about this design aspect of the EDG.

--AP
 
More curious marketing by Nikon, though....they seemed to have sneaked this one up on us without advance warning (compare to Leica's fanfares long in advance of the new HD, which is dead late hitting the shops anyway). Then it turns up being marketed as "Hunting Optics" on some obscure hunting site....are hunters a bigger tarket market than birders?

Sancho,

A well known retailer of binoculars in New York, summed it up as follows: "Hunters realize that bird watchers know binoculars but the hunters will actually spend on the best." However, there are all kinds of bird watchers, including those who watch their feeders, who do not require the most robust and expensive binoculars. Any big game hunter would not find the most expensive binocular costly compared to rifle and 'scope.
As I understand the American market, bird watchers are now have a larger share of binocular sales than do hunters.

A look at the Nikon USA, web site shows slightly different binoculars being marketed to hunters rather than bird watchers. Nikon recommends the SE and the E2 to bird watchers, even though the latter seem to be unavailable.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
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I like the looks of these. I feel drawn to the 7x42 version. The question for me is how well they will compare to my current 7x42s. I wonder if they will have the wide field of view of the FLs but with a larger sweet spot. If so then my FLs will end up on Ebay.

And for what it is worth, the link originally highlighted was to a summary of the ATA show (Archery Trade Association). This show is the "Super Bowl" of the archery world. All new archery and hunting products debut there each year. Other than maybe the SHOT show there really isn't a bigger outdoor exposition. Trust me, I have been there. The show was just this past weekend so I can understand why info is only being seen now. Many of the archery manufacturers wait until the show to debut their lineups. With Nikon having such a strong following in the hunting world (every outdoor show guide either has a pair of Nikon LXLs or Swaro ELs around their neck) it makes alot of sense for them to pitch their new line at the ATA show.

I look forward to seeing what Nikon came out with. A little birdie told me Nikon might be introducing something soon. I am glad to see their new bins are almost here.
 
Hi Frank,

Welcome back!:eat: So much for arrows!;)

It's appropriate that you re-introduce yourself in this thread! It's gotten awful "fine haired." Myself, I'm quite satisfied with my Nikon's and my Leica 7 x 42 BN Trinovid. With what I own now, the only thing that is going to make me a better birder is more study and hard work! Prism and objective lens coatings not withstanding. How was the hunting season?

Cordially,
Bob
 
What we really need is someone who has designed binocular optics, but I guess they have better things to do than to explain the basics to hobbyists.


Leif,
I am no optical designer but if you drop me a line at
[email protected]
I can send you a good pdf on abberations that will give you all the basics and some more.

Regards, Thomas
 
Well if you've seen the news lately, you'll see that us Brits are good at bringing a plane down safely when the engines have stopped. |=)|

In science there is the fundamental principle that results are only to be taken seriously if they are reproducible !
Anyone like to call BA to ask them if ... ? ;)
 
Alexis and Arthur....thanks for the clarification on the optics market segmentation of birders v. hunters. I know nothing about hunting (and make no moral judgement on it either, so if a row starts up on this thread too, I'm not getting involved!;)). In my extreme ignorance I thought that really good bins wouldn't be that important to hunters 'cos they wouldn't be trying to discern subtle field marks or plumage variations, etc. But I suppose most hunters, as you guys suggest, spend lots of moo-lah on other types of equipment, and most birders are cheap-skate low-achievers (me included)! Happy Birding,
Éanna (P.S. I mostly use "Sancho" 'cos I hate my name, not trying to be rude).
(P.P.S. - I've no problem with the lug-positioning on my beautiful new EII's, in fact they rest quite snugly against my chest. This may say more about my physique than about the binos).
 
I've no problem with the lug-positioning on my beautiful new EII's, in fact they rest quite snugly against my chest. This may say more about my physique than about the binos).

Perhaps a bit of both. Nikons lie flatter for users with wide IPD than narrow (I don't know your IPD, but mine is on the narrow side of average). Also, your EII is the 10x35. The weight distribution of their longer barrels with larger objectives helps them hang more vertically than does the 8x30EII that I own (this is also true for the Superior E models).

--AP
 
Is Nikon communicating that no price is too high for their customers?

Nikon is certainly in competition for the top dollar!

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Not to worry, Swaro and Leica will duke it out for the top dollar. But Nikon will have the last laugh on the way to icibank. :-O

Regards,
Ed
 
Photos on the telescopes.com site strongly suggest that the lug placement problem is solved in the new series. I'm among those who have been quite annoyed with the lug placement especially in the 32mm HG L's.

Another design aspect I find very welcome is the apparent tripod adapter thread under a threaded cap in the front of the focus knob bridge. It shows in the photos and is suggested in the rather scant product information. This will be a real advantage to finnstick users, who will be able to use simple, durable and inexpensive adapters instead of the ungainly platforms generally offered for roof-prism binoculars with no adapter threads incorporated.

Kimmo
 
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