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EDG - where are you? (1 Viewer)

mikefreiberg said:
Hi there! It seems I should re-read through my posts before sending it out. I apologize for that. I can see why there would be confusion.

Nikon has wonderful customer service. I am approached at many birders at every show complementing the timely service. Basically, my statements made no sense in the last post. I just wanted to make sure that everyone who is a Nikon user knows that we take pride in our customer service.

I will certainly try to see what information I can get for you concerning your EDG. Send me your info via a PM and I will look into it.

I tend to wear my binoculars across my chest, so I like to do a test of swinging my arms over the focus wheel to test the tension and strength of the focus wheel. I have done this a lot with my new EDG II and literally, the focus wheel has not popped up once.

Please let me know if you have more questions.

Best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon's Birding Market Specialist
Click to expand...



Here is what Mike Freiberg got back to me with.....He said that all Nikon could tell him was they were early production run. They have no idea if they are fixed, fixable, pre-diopter problem, post diopter problem, or what. That's their answer.

My question to you guys is...should I just drop my pursuit in getting my answer, just drop my pursuit of finding a fixed EDG I version, or just find another product other than Nikon altogether? I'm really not wanting to be a PITA, just expected a little more than the "early production" answer.
Thanks
 
jgraider said:
Here is what Mike Freiberg got back to me with.....He said that all Nikon could tell him was they were early production run. They have no idea if they are fixed, fixable, pre-diopter problem, post diopter problem, or what. That's their answer.

My question to you guys is...should I just drop my pursuit in getting my answer, just drop my pursuit of finding a fixed EDG I version, or just find another product other than Nikon altogether? I'm really not wanting to be a PITA, just expected a little more than the "early production" answer.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with beating a dead horse, sometimes they deserve it. :)

Ask Mike if you get a sample with a loose focuser, will Nikon fix it or replace it with a better sample like they did for Jerry (NDHunter)?

I'm not sure if Jerry's experience is typical, but Nikon does state in its warranty (and this even applies to its used bins) that it will repair or replace any Nikon bin that is defective (or even if you trash it yourself - "No Fault" warranty).

At this point, you might even wind up with it being replaced with an EDG II.

If you can't "try before you buy" or can't get a guarantee in writing that your defective focus knob will be repaired or replaced, or even if you can get that guarantee but don't want the hassle of sending them in for repairs or replacement, you'll either have to wait until the new EDG IIs are available and pay the premium price or buy another brand open bridge roof, if that's your preference. There are plenty choices of open bridge roofs out there at all price points.

If you still prefer the "Nikon view" and if you are not sensitive to "rolling ball" or "CA" and don't mind the lower light transmission (sliver vs. dielectric coatings), the Premier series will give you that "Nikon view" in a closed bridge roof design.

Brock
 
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Jonathan B. said:
Well not to beat a dead horse, as we've heard....

Nikon had to know exactly what they had in the SE, and there can be little doubt that they deliberately set out to create a perfect porro bin. The marketing matched the product. And don't forget that for a brief moment in time, the 8x42 Venturer LX may well have been the finest roof-prism bin; Nikon was equally as deliberate in its creation. Yes, in retrospect we can complain about CA and a slightly narrow field of view in the Venturer 8x42, but it had superb ergonomics, incredible sharpness and color rendition, and a closer focus than existing Leica and Swarovski bins. Nikon nailed it with both lines, and nobody else has made a porro-prism to match the SE. Swarovski overwhelmed the Venturer with the EL, which was even more innovative. The EL was followed in short order by the Ultravid and FL, and Nikon became an "also ran" in the roof department. In any case, Nikon perceived the opportunity to fill niches with superlative bins, made them, and marketed them for what they were. They certainly did not release them intending that they would not sell well.
Click to expand...

I agree w/all of this. Another thing not to forget is that for a number of years, Nikon had no top-end roof (and so for several years, the Superior E was the company's flagship binocular). There was a very long quasi phase-out of the 8x40 Classic Eagle (of 1984) preceding the release of the Venturer LX (in 1998), which was Nikon's first phase-coated roof (a full decade after Zeiss, nearly as long after Leica, and 6+ years after B&L/Bushnell). At the time, it was my perception that Nikon aimed to steal the show from Z/L/S/B&L rather than just join the alpha roof market, by designing, in the Venturer LX, what was arguably optically the best birding roof of the day. Also notable, was that Nikon set an extraordinary price--$1200 as I recall, at a time when Z/L/S full-sized models could be had for between $750-$900. The pricing scheme didn't work, and within a year was down to $900 or so. Swarovski was the next company to try to break the $1000 barrier, asking ~$1300 for the EL. Needless to say, that pricing held.

--AP
 
Alexis Powell said:
I agree w/all of this. Another thing not to forget is that for a number of years, Nikon had no top-end roof (and so for several years, the Superior E was the company's flagship binocular). There was a very long quasi phase-out of the 8x40 Classic Eagle (of 1984) preceding the release of the Venturer LX (in 1998), which was Nikon's first phase-coated roof (a full decade after Zeiss, nearly as long after Leica, and 6+ years after B&L/Bushnell). At the time, it was my perception that Nikon aimed to steal the show from Z/L/S/B&L rather than just join the alpha roof market, by designing, in the Venturer LX, what was arguably optically the best birding roof of the day. Also notable, was that Nikon set an extraordinary price--$1200 as I recall, at a time when Z/L/S full-sized models could be had for between $750-$900. The pricing scheme didn't work, and within a year was down to $900 or so. Swarovski was the next company to try to break the $1000 barrier, asking ~$1300 for the EL. Needless to say, that pricing held.

--AP
Click to expand...

I heartily agree that the Venturer was advanced for its time, and stated that above, but I didn't realize it was originally priced above the Big Three, probably because being a porro fan, I became interested in roofs late in the game, and the fact that I bought three of my LX/LXLs "pre-owned" and one as a demo.

I wonder why they had to lower their price, considering the rave reviews the Venturers received? Steve Ingraham even awarded the 8x32 LX a shared mantle with the 8x32 SE for the top overall birding bin and as the "reference standard" for roofs in its class.

Perhaps it was a Jenny Craig issue? They also cost more per pound than the other top roofs. Or maybe the old stigma of "Made in Japan" made them seem less valuable than Euro bins? For some reason, the cost was more than the "market could bear". Wish that happened with the SLC-HD!

With the EDG I, you can blame the drop in pricing on bad timing, coming out during the Crash of '08, though I'm sure the loose focuser knob didn't help either.

So I guess we can take from this history lesson that we can blame Nikon for starting the "price inflation" in premium roofs that we are still experiencing today. :)

Well, if the prices for the EDG II currently listed on Eagle Optics stick this time, Nikon bin prices may have finally entered the Zeissosphere, and once lifted up, there is no place else to go but up.

We need a Susan Powter of Optics who is willing to stand up and shout "STOP THE INSANITY," though hopefully someone less scary looking:

http://whatever.losito.net/images/susan-powter.jpg
 
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Just a tidbit to add to the discussion on the Nikon EDG. These binoculars are made in
Japan, and that means the binocular, strap, ocular and objective covers. The case is made in China.
I do watch labels, and it is good to see that Nikon is making sure quality is under direct
supervision.
They are a very fine optic, and I like that.

Jerry
 
jgraider said:
Here is what Mike Freiberg got back to me with.....He said that all Nikon could tell him was they were early production run. They have no idea if they are fixed, fixable, pre-diopter problem, post diopter problem, or what. That's their answer.

My question to you guys is...should I just drop my pursuit in getting my answer, just drop my pursuit of finding a fixed EDG I version, or just find another product other than Nikon altogether? I'm really not wanting to be a PITA, just expected a little more than the "early production" answer.
Thanks
Click to expand...

JG:

I would like to offer what I know as I have had experience with several of
the Nikon EDG models. It is not easy to distinguish the differences when some
of the improvements were made. The way to distinguish the early EDG models
was they had the ABS ocular cover which is the rigid type with a swivel to match
the IPD setting. These are similar to the Swaro. EL. The changes are when they
did the fix on the focuser diopter, and made it firm to detent. I do know that the newer models have a more typical rubber type ocular rainguard, and that is
the current being used on the EDG II.

So, if looking for an EDG I, either preowned or used, if it has the rubber ocular
cover, I am thinking it is the latest model, with the changes. But, I do not know about the full range of sizes.

I do like the original EDG, which seems to be optically the same as the new EDG
II. The original EDG open frame is very nice and offers nice handling, and for some may be just as nice as the new EDG II.

The new EDG II does have more rubber covering, with very little exposed metal, and has the advantage of an open objective, and the new objective tethered covers are an improvement, and I do like that.

Jerry
 
Great stuff Jerry, very much appreciated. You gave me the exact criteria I've been looking for. I've only gotten to look through an EDG twice. Once was indoors at the SCI show in Reno, and I was very, very impressed. I was equally impressed when I looked through one that one of our mule deer hunters had in camp. I was, once again, very impressed. So much so that I've not been able to get that #%#!*^ EDG off my mind! Thanks again.
JG
 
JG I tried the one EDG that Jerry had and would of been very happy with it, I did not have any trouble with the focuser. I think Jerry might of sent that one in for repair/ replacement.
 
NDhunter said:
JG:

I would like to offer what I know as I have had experience with several of
the Nikon EDG models. It is not easy to distinguish the differences when some
of the improvements were made. The way to distinguish the early EDG models
was they had the ABS ocular cover which is the rigid type with a swivel to match
the IPD setting. These are similar to the Swaro. EL. The changes are when they
did the fix on the focuser diopter, and made it firm to detent. I do know that the newer models have a more typical rubber type ocular rainguard, and that is
the current being used on the EDG II.

So, if looking for an EDG I, either preowned or used, if it has the rubber ocular
cover, I am thinking it is the latest model, with the changes. But, I do not know about the full range of sizes.

I do like the original EDG, which seems to be optically the same as the new EDG
II. The original EDG open frame is very nice and offers nice handling, and for some may be just as nice as the new EDG II.

The new EDG II does have more rubber covering, with very little exposed metal, and has the advantage of an open objective, and the new objective tethered covers are an improvement, and I do like that.

Jerry
Click to expand...

OK. My 10 x 32 EDG I has the second ocular cover. I got it in August. There is no problem with the Focus Knob or the Diopter mechanism on it.

Bob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgraider View Post
Thanks Mike. Here's a couple for you to check out. Nikon EDG 10x42 serial # 500344, and serial #500060 of same configuration.

Please give me the date of manufacture, and if these two have the improved/fixed/modified diopter ring that doesn't "free wheel", or has little to no resistance. I appreciate your help. Please do not respond to tell me to send them to Nikon for evaluation. Thanks again.
JG

Any word yet Mike? Anxiously awaiting.
JG

I asked Mike a very simple question, as a matter of fact I asked it twice over a week ago.... after he imformed me they were early production models and that's all Nikon would/could say about a manufacture date. As you may remember I am/concerned about the diopter problems on the first run of EDG I binos.

I then asked him if they were defective, if they would be fixed free of charge to me, not the original owner. Once again, I asked him twice over a week ago. I haven't heard anything, zero, nada, not even a "I'll try to find out" answer.

I ask you guys on the forum.......Don't you think, when we are asked to spend $1500-$2000 on binoculars, we deserve better service than this? This is a very, very simple question.
 
jgraider said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgraider View Post
Thanks Mike. Here's a couple for you to check out. Nikon EDG 10x42 serial # 500344, and serial #500060 of same configuration.

Please give me the date of manufacture, and if these two have the improved/fixed/modified diopter ring that doesn't "free wheel", or has little to no resistance. I appreciate your help. Please do not respond to tell me to send them to Nikon for evaluation. Thanks again.
JG

Any word yet Mike? Anxiously awaiting.
JG

I asked Mike a very simple question, as a matter of fact I asked it twice over a week ago.... after he imformed me they were early production models and that's all Nikon would/could say about a manufacture date. As you may remember I am/concerned about the diopter problems on the first run of EDG I binos.

I then asked him if they were defective, if they would be fixed free of charge to me, not the original owner. Once again, I asked him twice over a week ago. I haven't heard anything, zero, nada, not even a "I'll try to find out" answer.

I ask you guys on the forum.......Don't you think, when we are asked to spend $1500-$2000 on binoculars, we deserve better service than this? This is a very, very simple question.
Click to expand...

I am beginning to think that Nikon does not keep a numerical count by serial number of the binoculars they make. With Swarovski it can be done. How do you determine Leica's? Or Zeiss's? Not to mention the companies who specialize in mid- range priced binoculars. Can anybody figure out from their serial numbers the dates they were manufactured and thereby determine which ones to avoid?

I don't think that Nikon or any other binocular manufacturer is going to release that kind of information to anybody except those people in their own organizations who have a need to know it.

The best guess that we have been able to make (thanks to Brocks efforts) from Nikon's SN's is to estimate from what yearly batch they came and if there were some (not all of them may have had a faulty mechanism when pulling up the Focusing Cap) problems in that batch.

The serial number of my 10 x 32 EDG I is between 150 and 175. I bought it this past August. It has no problem with the focus wheel and IPD focusing. I've registered it with Nikon. If it ever has any kind of problem I know Nikon will fix it under it's guarantee.

Bob
 
ceasar said:
I am beginning to think that Nikon does not keep a numerical count by serial number of the binoculars they make. With Swarovski it can be done. How do you determine Leica's? Or Zeiss's? Not to mention the companies who specialize in mid- range priced binoculars. Can anybody figure out from their serial numbers the dates they were manufactured and thereby determine which ones to avoid?

I don't think that Nikon or any other binocular manufacturer is going to release that kind of information to anybody except those people in their own organizations who have a need to know it.

The best guess that we have been able to make (thanks to Brocks efforts) from Nikon's SN's is to estimate from what yearly batch they came and if there were some (not all of them may have had a faulty mechanism when pulling up the Focusing Cap) problems in that batch.

The serial number of my 10 x 32 EDG I is between 150 and 175. I bought it this past August. It has no problem with the focus wheel and IPD focusing. I've registered it with Nikon. If it ever has any kind of problem I know Nikon will fix it under it's guarantee.

Bob
Click to expand...

Swarovski released the serial number of the first sample EL that had the new faster focuser. I don't remember where that was posted, either on Cloudy Nights or BF.

As Mike tells it, the "fix" on the EDG's focuser knob has been a more gradual process, not one sample is loose and the next consecutive serial number sample is tight.

OTOH, Nikon sent Jerry an EDG I sample with a "tighter" focuser, so they must have some idea of when this process started and which serial numbers it started on.

I don't quite understand how tightening the focuser works since the focus knob doesn't seem to be something you can adjust, as far as I could tell from Jerry's sample. What is there to tighten?

To me, the problem seemed to be from a lack of a 'lip" at the end of the knob to hold it in place. The solution would seem to be in designing a focuser knob with a "lip" at the bottom that can snap into place to secure the knob down.

My guess is that they don't want to post the information of when the improvements took place over concern that the earlier models will not be sold.

Brock
 
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If all the focusers were bad it would be wise to recall them. If only individual ones on certain models had problems probably not. We don't have a large enough sample here to determine how bad the situation was. I don't know if my binocular falls within the period where there were problems. Maybe none of the 10 x 32's had a problem? Who knows? Anybody out there get one that was bad? Same way with the 8 x 32's.

JG seems to have been considering buying a pre-owned EDG if I read his post right. That raises a warranty problem I'll admit. Original owners with that problem who have registered them with Nikon will have an inconvenience but it won't cost them money to have them fixed or replaced.

Swarovski really had no mechanical problem with their original focus wheel but it probably affected sales so they speeded it up. I wonder if they changed it after most of the early models were sold?

Bob
 
ceasar said:
If all the focusers were bad it would be wise to recall them. If only individual ones on certain models had problems probably not. We don't have a large enough sample here to determine how bad the situation was. I don't know if my binocular falls within the period where there were problems. Maybe none of the 10 x 32's had a problem? Who knows? Anybody out there get one that was bad? Same way with the 8 x 32's.

JG seems to have been considering buying a pre-owned EDG if I read his post right. That raises a warranty problem I'll admit. Original owners with that problem who have registered them with Nikon will have an inconvenience but it won't cost them money to have them fixed or replaced.

Swarovski really had no mechanical problem with their original focus wheel but it probably affected sales so they speeded it up. I wonder if they changed it after most of the early models were sold?

Bob
Click to expand...

You are correct. I can understand if Nikon doesn't want to publicize their serial # batches or whatever. I don't understand if they cannot answer the very simple question of when it was made. My main concern to Mike F, and Nikon CS is that if there is a problem, since I'm not the original owner, will it be fixed at no cost to me, or what? I think that's a very simple question also, but one that they do not want/know how to answer.
 
jgraider said:
You are correct. I can understand if Nikon doesn't want to publicize their serial # batches or whatever. I don't understand if they cannot answer the very simple question of when it was made. My main concern to Mike F, and Nikon CS is that if there is a problem, since I'm not the original owner, will it be fixed at no cost to me, or what? I think that's a very simple question also, but one that they do not want/know how to answer.
Click to expand...

Don't you think your question is better answered "officially" by Nikon Repair. Don't own the binoculars in question? As you know, warranty service is to original owners only (at least I think that's the Nikon policy). You don't really expect them to be at the beck and call of anyone but the warranty holder do you?

I don't think it's appropriate to call MikeF out on this issue. He's not everything Nikon nor should you expect him to be. But he's proven to be a great advocate and has been very helpful in many ways. You should be glad Nikon has someone like him around. Perhaps a change in tone, and possession of the product (I understand you don't actually own them), might get you the desired result - at little or no cost.

Oh, and I don't think MikeF visits here as often as you might like him to ...
 
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jsmorytko--He offered to help in the first place. His idea, not mine so if you don't know what you're talking about you need to check the facts. Make all the excuses you want to for Nikon, that's fine with me. You also don't know squat about Nikon's 25 Yr No Fault Warranty, so check the facts on that before you say something stupid again. I'll ask you since you brought it up.....would you spend $1200 before you knew if they'd fix them or not? As I said previously, I expect them to be willing and able to answer simple questions about their very own products. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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