Song Sparrow (Saltonis) (1 Viewer)

SueO · Apr 3, 2007

I was out at the Salton Sea in Southern Cal a few days ago and saw this bird. I think it is a Desert Song Sparrow--Melopiza melodia saltonis. When I first saw it, I didn't think sparrow. It held it's tail in a wren-like cocked position, and the wings were held down. The body appeared to be too elongated and slender and the tail seemed too long. I was really excited because I thought I was seeing something quite unusual. After I had watched it awhile I began to think it could be a Song Sparrow, but it just didn't seem right. When I got home and put my photos up, I saw the spot on the breast,(I didn't see that with the binoculars as the only good views I got of the bird front on were with the camera), and started looking at Song Sparrows. Neither the National Geographic nor the Sibley's show a grey rump, but this bird had one.

I did a bit of browsing but couldn't find an image of a Saltonis. My browsings taught me a bit about this bird so even if it is just a Song Sparrow, I feel very lucky to have seen this race of it. It would have been very easy to miss. I only noticed it due to a slight movement in the dry brush across a gully.

I am not 100% sure about my call so I would appreciate any help on this.

Thanks

SueO · Apr 4, 2007

I am posting two song sparrow photos to show races. At least I think photo #2 is a Song Sparrow. :brains:

I got the following information from the address listed. Still can’t find anything about the grey rump.

http://www.prbo.org/calpif/htmldocs/species/riparian/song_sparrow.htm

Colorado Desert and Mojave Bioregions: Desert Song Sparrow (M.m. saltonis) is an uncommon resident in the Salton Basin and Colorado River Valley, where they inhabitat riparian, marshes, and saltcedar. Appear to be declining in region (Garrett and Dunn 1981, Small 1994).
SUBSPECIES STATUS:
Song Sparrows have the greatest number of genetically distinct populations of any bird in North America. The total number of subspecies is much debated, but the most recent study suggests there are perhaps as few as 24 in total (Patten 2001 in Arcese et al. 2002): 11 that breed in California (with some recent debate and modifications to subspecies status), and 8 that are endemic to the state (Shuford 1993, Grinnell and Miller 1944, Roberson and Tenney 1993). Four additional subspecies winter in California (Grinnell and Miller 1944). See Historical References below for complete range information of every subspecies.

AlexC · Apr 4, 2007

That tail-cocking does seem strange for Song Sparrow - maybe they only do it when they're displaying...? Some one with experience seeing Songs breed might have something to say on this. I swear when I opened that first shot I was like "Brown Thra..? That is a Melospiza. Weird."

SueO · Apr 4, 2007

AlexC said:
That tail-cocking does seem strange for Song Sparrow - maybe they only do it when they're displaying...? Some one with experience seeing Songs breed might have something to say on this. I swear when I opened that first shot I was like "Brown Thra..? That is a Melospiza. Weird."

Hi Alex,

I know what you mean about first glance. As I mentioned, my first glance of the bird got my heart going. I wasn't sure what it was. I don't think it was displaying. I watched him for quite awhile and he just seemed to be wandering and pecking in the shallow water (mostly behind dried plants on the bank). I did eventually see another bird like it not too far down the creek, so maybe a show was going on but it didn't seem that way to me. I didn't see him make any vocalizations. I'm glad I got photos. Without them, this bird could have been one of those "What did I see?" birds. So do you think it is a Melospiza melodia saltonis?

Larry Lade · Apr 4, 2007

While "googling" I came across this webpage. The seventh bird down in the middle row looks a lot like your bird. It is only labelled as Song Sparrow. Perhaps some communication with the birder who photographed the bird would be able to help with the identification of your bird.Hope this helps.

Xenospiza · Apr 4, 2007

I'll try to find out what saltonis should look like later – I have its description somewhere.

SueO · Apr 4, 2007

Hi All,

Thanks for the help. Larry, our minds were on the same track. I had just come to the conclusion that I should call the refuge manager. I have the number and it may be that saltonis is the only race of Melospiza melodia in the Sonny Bono area. (Unless someone here tells me the bird isn't a Song Sparrow at all) I wasn't simply being lazy--part of this post just stemmed from my being jazzed at seeing this bird and wanting to share and hear. I've thrown myself sparrows since I've been here visiting. I was sadly lacking in knowledge and I wanted to learn while I had access to volumns of research material. I've come down with a severe case of Sparrowitis. I've got a few weeks left before going back to Turkey and my sailboat, Peregrine. I'd love to spend the whole time left birding and reading, but my daughter is getting married before I leave again for a few years and for some reason people expect the Mother-of-the-Bride to participate in planning.

Xenospiza, thanks in advance for anything you find.

Larry Lade · Apr 4, 2007

Peregrinator, I contacted the fellow I referred to above and he is going to show your photos to an expert in his area and get his opinion of what your bird is. When I find out anything concerning this, I will let you know.

Xenospiza · Apr 4, 2007

I had no doubts that it was a Song Sparrow – and it looks very much like the saltonis depicted in "Buntings and Sparrows" by Byers et al.
Their description also matches: "Pale grey above, heavily streaked with pale rufous, has pale rufous wings and tail, pale rufous crown with a pale grey median stripe and is lightly streaked with pale rufous on the underparts."
I think we can conclude it's a pale bird!

cavan wood · Apr 5, 2007

Can't comment on the subspecies, but I wonder if the tail cocking has anything to do with it being in the water.

Scott

Chris Benesh · Apr 5, 2007

Hi All,

As a southwestern birder I can say that this bird is most definitely a Song Sparrow, and since the photo is from the Salton Sea, it would be saltonis. In Arizona, we have a very similar subspecies fallax that is sometimes merged with saltonis. It looks basically the same, being small and quite rusty in tone. The postures in the photos look typical of that form to me, but I hadn't really ever thought of tail-cocking as being out of character for other Song Sparrows. My guess is that Scott is right and it has to do with it foraging right at the water's edge (i.e., keeping its tail out of the mud).

Chris

Currently in McAllen, TX.

SueO · Apr 6, 2007

Hi Again,

Sorry for the delay, I don't have internet access readily available. Thank you all. I will put a saltonis on my life list. Chris, I have seen Song Sparrows with tails cocked at several locations here in Orange County, but it wasn't a constant posture nor as severe an angle. Also the wings weren't constantly held pointed down like the saltonis. Even when the saltonis perched in the dry scrub, the tail was cocked. In retrospect, I guess it's not too weird a posture, but it did throw me for a few minutes. Anyway, it was great to watch this little guy and a good day at the Sea. Thanks for the feed-back.
Suzanne

SueO · Apr 6, 2007

Larry Lade said:
Peregrinator, I contacted the fellow I referred to above and he is going to show your photos to an expert in his area and get his opinion of what your bird is. When I find out anything concerning this, I will let you know.

Hi Larry,

It hit me last night at 2:00 in the morning that I failed to to say thanks for your effort. I still would love to hear what your expert has to say. Who knows, maybe he'll come up with something else. I did read that at some point, some experts considered Chris' fallaxand the saltonis as being the same subspecies. I had to sign off before I could really go into the info. It seemed those papers were ancient though and I am going to do some more reading on this before leaving the US. I will be interested in anything you find. You can pm me if you don't want to drag this thread up again. Sorry for being rude.
Suzanne

AlexC · Apr 7, 2007

Chris Benesh said:
Currently in McAllen, TX.

Heh heh - me too! (well, Zapata now...)

Nice meetin' ya by the way!

Chris Benesh · Apr 7, 2007

AlexC said:
Heh heh - me too! (well, Zapata now...)

Nice meetin' ya by the way!

Hey Alex,

It was great meeting you too. I'll be seeing you in the breakfast room tomorrow morning since we are both at the same hotel, and at Salineno later in the morning. Now go to bed it's late! :bounce:

Chris
at the same hotel as Alex in Zapata.

danehower · Apr 7, 2007

OK, what is the deal ? - is there some NA bird forum experts get together to decide the the truth about the "blue crow" thread ? - I demand transparency(sorry for spelling) in these matters!!! I know there is some weird conspericy going on !:C ......3

B

Larry Lade · Apr 7, 2007

Chris, I wish I were down there in Texas with "you'all". It has been in the teens/twenties here with that arctic blast that moved down from the north. And the cold weather is just lingering here; it does not seem to want to move out. We are anxious for some spring-type weather.

Suzanne, I did not think that you were rude at all so rest easy! * I sent you a PM concerning follow-up on your bird photo. Cheers!

AlexC · Apr 7, 2007

Believe it or not, hasn't been much better HERE Larry!

45 degrees F and somewhere between rain and drizzle. Come on Red-billed Pigeon! Cross the river!

Chris Benesh · Apr 8, 2007

danehower said:
OK, what is the deal ? - is there some NA bird forum experts get together to decide the the truth about the "blue crow" thread ? - I demand transparency(sorry for spelling) in these matters!!! I know there is some weird conspericy going on !:C ......3 B

LOL! With apologies to Suzanne for hijacking this thread, the debate over the "blue crow" issue proved insurmountable, so we chose to go birding in light rain, high winds, and 40+ degree temperatures instead. Burr! Not the best day of birding along the Rio Grande. Still, my streak with White-collared Seedeater sightings continued for another year, whew! I've got a photo to document my encounter with AlexC at:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=855445#post855445

Chris

AlexC · Apr 8, 2007

Chris Benesh said:
LOL! With apologies to Suzanne for hijacking this thread, the debate over the "blue crow" issue proved insurmountable, so we chose to go birding in light rain, high winds, and 40+ degree temperatures instead. Burr! Not the best day of birding along the Rio Grande. Still, my streak with White-collared Seedeater sightings continued for another year, whew! I've got a photo to document my encounter with AlexC at:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=855445#post855445

Chris

I hit up the seedeater spot tomorrow morning... (though not before trying Falcon Damn for nightjars and that Rio Grande spot (name?) for still unseen Brown Jay and better views of Red-billed Pigeon and Audubon's Oriole. Hope everything shows! The weather was like the UK or something! Lowest ever recorded April temperatures for Texas!

While we're on the "blue crow", no (Tamaulipas) crows here this year (YET :bounce: ) - just Chihuahuan Ravens.

Song Sparrow (Saltonis) (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Attachments

Aves en Los Ángeles

Well-known member

Moderator

Distracted

Well-known member

Moderator

Distracted

Well-known member

So much work, so little time...so let's go birding

Well-known member

Well-known member

Aves en Los Ángeles

So much work, so little time...so let's go birding

Well-known member

Moderator

Aves en Los Ángeles

So much work, so little time...so let's go birding

Aves en Los Ángeles

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread