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Old Monday 2nd August 2010, 18:55   #9401
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Great news regarding the Spoonbills. Breeding in style, 6 pairs! I would agree Mr. Sim that this can in some respects be attributed to climate change, but also to natural expansion of these species. I wonder if a watchpoint has or will be set up?
There seems to have been an influx of this species (certainly in this county anyway) with upwards of 30 Spoonbills in Norfolk at the moment!
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Old Monday 2nd August 2010, 19:31   #9402
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There seems to have been an influx of this species (certainly in this county anyway) with upwards of 30 Spoonbills in Norfolk at the moment!
Are any of the birds at Cley juveniles from the Holkham breeders I wonder? Can't imagine they have gone undetected, surely not!
Thinking on, why success in 2010? Spoonbill have bred in Britain in the past, which doesn't rule out climate change as a factor but certainly asks questions of it. Although our island is becoming more and more crowded, there is now more land under the nature reserve umbrella than ever before, encouraging a greater variety of species to breed. No doubt the hard working attempts to restore Britain's wetlands and the like to their former glory have aided the establishment of this years rare breeders.
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Old Monday 2nd August 2010, 19:58   #9403
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In a UK400 Club email LGRE says: "The North Norfolk EURASIAN SPOONBILL colony at Holkham Freshmarshes has this year broken all records with as many as 10 youngsters expected to fledge before mid August."

The wording seems to me to suggest that there has been previous breeding of Spoonbills at Holkham. Is that so? Or is he just referring to the few previous UK records?

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Old Monday 2nd August 2010, 21:54   #9404
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Baby Spoonbills!!!!!! How lovely!!!!!!
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Old Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 06:22   #9405
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Baby Spoonbills!!!!!! How lovely!!!!!!
Swoonbills or teaspooners, a local name for baby spoonbills is required to celebrate this super news!
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Old Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 07:26   #9406
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Paul would never forgive you Steve!!!

Love Sue and Paul (currently in Taman Negara, Malaysia enjoying views of Chestnut-naped Forktail!)
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Old Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 20:51   #9407
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In a UK400 Club email LGRE says: "The North Norfolk EURASIAN SPOONBILL colony at Holkham Freshmarshes has this year broken all records with as many as 10 youngsters expected to fledge before mid August."

The wording seems to me to suggest that there has been previous breeding of Spoonbills at Holkham. Is that so? Or is he just referring to the few previous UK records?

Nigel
There was certainly a pair regularly frequenting the Little Egret colony at Holkham in 2008. Don't know if they bred successfully.
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Old Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 22:29   #9408
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i suspect that spoonbills have been trying to breed for some time at holkham. May pop in for a look on saturday. Just for info, both hoopoe and raven either bred or attempted to breed in the county this year. I have no further details. No doubt i will recieve comments re releasing news! My response, it is now august and the county is fairly large!
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Old Tuesday 3rd August 2010, 22:51   #9409
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i suspect that spoonbills have been trying to breed for some time at holkham. May pop in for a look on saturday. Just for info, both hoopoe and raven either bred or attempted to breed in the county this year. I have no further details. No doubt i will recieve comments re releasing news! My response, it is now august and the county is fairly large!
I have also heard various rumours about Raven and Hoopoe breeding. Anybody able to shed more light???
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 08:18   #9410
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Holkham

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There was certainly a pair regularly frequenting the Little Egret colony at Holkham in 2008. Don't know if they bred successfully.

I seem to remember that Night Heron was suspected of breeding at Holkham in the early 90.....
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 08:52   #9411
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I have also heard various rumours about Raven and Hoopoe breeding. Anybody able to shed more light???
I heard the Hoopoe rumour too...

Apparently Ravens are approaching double figures in Northamptonshire with birds getting across the border into Cambs and even rumoured breeding in the north of the county? ...so not too far for em to drift into Norfolk toon.

As for Norfolk breeders I've also heard that too but nowt firm yet... rumour mill hasn't reached Suffolk yet... to my knowledge? ... has it
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 14:36   #9412
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Noticing a few thread 'watchers' right now, hoping for a spill of the beans no doubt.......not from me chaps, I have been doing some birding!
Spent yesterday in Ted Ellis country, across the Yare from Strumpshaw. A quiet day in terms of birds, a reeling Gropper the highlight at Surlingham Marsh, but 2 great little reserves full of potential. Expect a few updates from these parts on the blog in the future!
Cheers,
Jim.
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 15:09   #9413
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There was a claim that Wryneck bred at Roydon this year.
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 17:31   #9414
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I seem to remember that Night Heron was suspected of breeding at Holkham in the early 90.....
I recall getting quite excited when I heard one calling just after dark near Alderford Common a couple of years ago. Until I remembered where I was....
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 18:45   #9415
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Anybody able to shed more light???
No, hopefully not anyway given this is an open forum.
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 20:59   #9416
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Do not forget some of these birds might return to breed next spring so please no more naming of sites ( as in wyrneck post ) please if we want these birds to establish themselves. Do not forget at worst you might be responsible of some egg collector locating the birds , or cause desertion from too much birding attention.
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 21:59   #9417
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Timely posts from Connor and Tideliner. I find it hard to believe that info is even being requested on an open forum for stuff like that - particularly as we've just had a superb instance of what can be achieved when news of a scarce breeder is kept quiet and they're allowed to nest with minimal disturbance, as in the Spoonbills.
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 22:36   #9418
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Timely posts from Connor and Tideliner. I find it hard to believe that info is even being requested on an open forum for stuff like that - particularly as we've just had a superb instance of what can be achieved when news of a scarce breeder is kept quiet and they're allowed to nest with minimal disturbance, as in the Spoonbills.
Just for the record. The raven stuff may just be rumours although a pair have wintered. I would expect given the expansion in numbers for other birds to arrive. As for the hoopoe stuff. I have given egg collectors a massive lead here! They will be getting out there os maps and seeking out suitible nesting sites (parks and gardens) in norfolk. Needle and haystacks come to mind. Having said that if birders had heard rumours - then eggers would have known anyway!
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Old Wednesday 4th August 2010, 22:43   #9419
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can anybody comment on the reliability of the cley hooded crow. Need it as a county tick and may try to fit it in on saturday!
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 07:22   #9420
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The raven stuff may just be rumours although a pair have wintered. I would expect given the expansion in numbers for other birds to arrive. As for the hoopoe stuff. I have given egg collectors a massive lead here! They will be getting out there os maps and seeking out suitible nesting sites (parks and gardens) in norfolk. Needle and haystacks come to mind.
So the purpose of your original post was... what? Just inviting a harmless discussion on the subject, without digging for more information, i.e. locations?!! Call me an old cynic but usually posts discussing rumours of scarce breeders descend very rapidly into someone being stupid and letting slip something they shouldn't... IF rumours are true, as Tideliner says, it's possible these birds could come back to the same spot - Ravens are certainly site faithful.
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 14:41   #9421
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So the purpose of your original post was... what? Just inviting a harmless discussion on the subject, without digging for more information, i.e. locations?!! Call me an old cynic but usually posts discussing rumours of scarce breeders descend very rapidly into someone being stupid and letting slip something they shouldn't... IF rumours are true, as Tideliner says, it's possible these birds could come back to the same spot - Ravens are certainly site faithful.
Irene. May I point out first that Ravens are not not a rare breeding bird. Second. egg collectors are often more aware of gen re rare breeders that most birders give them credit for. On Mull, the awareness of birders to rare breeders (ie. sea eagles) has led to eggers being caught. I would suspect eggers are fully aware of the Norfolk Monty's sites, one of the worst kept Norfolk secrets!! The fact that they are well watched helps there protection! Details of sites should not be released which I have not done. In respect of the Hoopoes, they are long and gone and will probably not return. If the do (that would be nice), then I have given no information that could possibly lead to the site being located! When RBA are aware of possible breeding, then there policy is not to release news once the breeding link has been established. As for other people discussing locations of breeding wrynecks (I knew the possible locality anyway) then that really is not down to me. Will have to agree to differ Irene!!
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 18:01   #9422
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Irene. May I point out first that Ravens are not not a rare breeding bird
That doesn't mean that the unofficial and unplanned release of a breeding site, or any rumour-baiting to that affect, wouldn't cause issues. It would be undoubtedly popular amongst birders, potentially resulting in damage, disturbance etc, while eggers in the past have been known to target certain species and then any 'lesser species' in the surrounding area.

As for the bird news services policy, always nice to have a good theory - putting it into practise is another, and sometimes it would seem challenging, matter of course...
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 18:18   #9423
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is this the first juvie autumn Wheatear hoping about around the grounded boat along the creek at Blakeney? oh yeah so it is - cuckoo too
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 19:11   #9424
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That doesn't mean that the unofficial and unplanned release of a breeding site, or any rumour-baiting to that affect, wouldn't cause issues. It would be undoubtedly popular amongst birders, potentially resulting in damage, disturbance etc, while eggers in the past have been known to target certain species and then any 'lesser species' in the surrounding area.

As for the bird news services policy, always nice to have a good theory - putting it into practise is another, and sometimes it would seem challenging, matter of course...
Connor some good points. I presume u still need raven as a county tick? I premuse if some birds wintered you would expect the news to be put out? Raven is not a rare breeder. If the cley hooded crow (a rare bird in norfolk but not a rare bird) was a long stayer and was joined by a second bird next spring. Would u expect u expect news to kept quiet as a result?
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Old Thursday 5th August 2010, 19:37   #9425
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Connor some good points. I presume u still need raven as a county tick? I premuse if some birds wintered you would expect the news to be put out? Raven is not a rare breeder. If the cley hooded crow (a rare bird in norfolk but not a rare bird) was a long stayer and was joined by a second bird next spring. Would u expect u expect news to kept quiet as a result?
I do still need Raven as a county tick. If a bird or a pair wintered at a potential breeding site in the county and the finder decided to keep the news quiet for that reason then I would be fine with that. Breeding Ravens at sites in surrounding counties e.g. Lincs are surpressed and I don't see why Norfolk should be any different in this regard. The same applies to other rare birds in the county that could be targeted that are not rare nationally e.g. Red Kite.

I think the Hooded Crow example is slightly different. Obviously from a geographical perspective they are far less likely to breed and in the very unlikely event they did it is much less likely they would remain site-faithful as with Ravens. I also think it is much less likely this species would be targeted.

Ultimately it is up to the finders discretion, but with the recent egging cases in the county surely it is better to be safer than sorry.
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