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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 19:32   #9601
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First full day out for ages - Blakeney to East Hills, Pied Fly on path opposite quarry, Black-necked Grebe and Hobby Stiffkey, lots of warblers all the way along, the Pied Fly still present on the Westermost track. At East Hills saw something briefly that looked interesting but which as a birder who carries neither phone nor camera was as Jimbob puts it outside my comfort zone. Then bumped into The King himself (or should it now be Emperor), he'd seen and photoed the grubby thing already, he's currently frantically sending round emails, i'm sure he'll fill you in later.

spent the walk back from the hills falling over and getting muddy
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 19:57   #9602
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sounds intriguing, was it a new species for the world ?
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 20:10   #9603
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sounds intriguing, was it a new species for the world ?
wasn't even a new find for him, heres a transcript of our conversation - me isnt this exciting, him - no they are the most boring birds in the world, me - oh god can i go and watch some Skuas
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 20:13   #9604
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Surely not another Blyth's Reed? [yawns]
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 20:17   #9605
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Originally Posted by Blakeney Resident View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Clarke View Post
I then drove to Coastguards and bumped into Pete S. and Richard and Eddie M. M.G on his way to North Hide called me to say a juv. Long Tailed Skua was flying towards and over the Eye Field!!! Alerted Eddie, Pete and Richard and we had splendid views of it flying right across us, but only got a picture when it was a bit too far away really!
Hi Penny, could you put the Skua photo on the ID thread i'd be interested to see what people say - to me the bird has a long, thin bill, sloping forehead, is round bellied not muscular chested and has an extensively white flash on the base of the primaries - the arm seems broader and longer than the hand, pushing it a bit this - plumage seems slightly warm-toned - for me its an Arctic.
Interestingly (to me, at least) I've just searched the RBA database to find the details of the original report. It's not there as Long-tailed Skua, as reported, but it is as an Arctic.

I didn't realise RBA edited their messages retrospectively like this. I'm sure there's loads of mis-IDs in their database that are never detected, so catching a few that are known strikes me as a bit pointless. I'd rather just see the news as it went out at the time, though obviously it's not a big deal either way.
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 20:52   #9606
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Surely not another Blyth's Reed? [yawns]
might not be
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 21:18   #9607
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Interestingly (to me, at least) I've just searched the RBA database to find the details of the original report. It's not there as Long-tailed Skua, as reported, but it is as an Arctic.

I didn't realise RBA edited their messages retrospectively like this. I'm sure there's loads of mis-IDs in their database that are never detected, so catching a few that are known strikes me as a bit pointless. I'd rather just see the news as it went out at the time, though obviously it's not a big deal either way.

maybe someone put pressure on them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvKXt3Surlk&feature=fvst
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 21:46   #9608
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Hi Josh

See my reply on previous page please.

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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 21:57   #9609
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Can't see any reason not to put this up on an id thread... people post plenty of worse photos there! If anyone can tell me why this bird is a long-tailed, then I'll learn something.
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 21:59   #9610
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Agree with you, BR - I'd not call this a Long-tailed on structure.
That's good news for the birder whom I forced to get up at some ungodly hour to find a full shelter at Sheringham! At least he got (distant) Sooties to get to 350, but there's always 351...
Too bad that my ability to see Stormies is still inadequate (the fact that I found this the most upsetting part of the day is proof of my complete desinterest to build a huge UK list... as it's on it already). Luckily I don't mind getting up early to stare at waves.
I thought the saltspray along the Norfolk coast alone was quite spectacular.
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Old Wednesday 1st September 2010, 22:31   #9611
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[quote=Penny Clarke;1915236]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakeney Resident View Post

Hi Josh

Sorry could not reply earlier - first of all where were you Josh, when you saw the bird please? Or were you just looking at my picture on blog?

I suggest you discuss this with Mark G. and other Cley birders who also saw/ID'd the bird, next time you see them. I can't see the point in posting the picture on my blog onto an ID thread on here, being as my picture is Crap!!! If the picture was clear and in good light etc I don't think anyone would be questioning it in the first place and with another text and email etc I have received, I wished I hadn't bothered putting the picture on my blog!!! But there we go I have and if people which to discuss it, fine! But its a very bad shot as the bird was flying away in a white sky and doesn't show the bird in its true colours, so to speak. The bird flew with a dainty flight pattern as it came across the Eye Field, certainly didn't fly like an Arctic Skua!

Best Wishes Penny
hey Penny, yeah hadn't read your post before i started taking the pee but i hope me and Golley are cool and i'm sure he wouldn't mind me having a little giggle at him, i'll discuss it next time i see him.

In regard to the photo on the blog - its public domain! many people take photos off other peoples blogs - two reasons being to conclusively ID the bird or that it will raise an interesting ID debate and thats what this is, don't see anything wrong with armchair ID - after all we are all learning regardless of whether you're a Zen master or a young apprentice - you agree yeah?

In regard to the photo and the bird, the photo is not crap by any means and enough to iD the Skua to a specific species based on structure and some plumage, have a look at the Collins, i can't see any LTS features, behaviour is important too but maybe a Skua would act differently flying over land - i always base Skuas on those three things jizz, behaviour, plumage...

its just that LTS is now a description species so its important to get them right this year.
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 06:08   #9612
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Scare acro over; mud scarecrow over, too

Apologies for the late posting, as I was awaiting considered comment, having retired early to recommence school duties today.

Just to the east of the main sycamore grove on East Hills, there was a rather scrappy reed-type warbler, that looked as if it had been in the wars- as with one of the (3) Chiffchaffs in the vicinity. Very skulking, low down in brambles, not heard to call and would not reply to playback, although did react, by becoming more agitated. Seemed to have anomalous features, indicating one of the rarer acros. A few poor photos were obtained, with considerable difficulty.

Zooming quickly westwards, in a vain attempt to see some identifiable birds, all I had was a bright and clean Reed Warbler at the ‘end’. Very different in appearance from its sibling, whose ID has now been ‘returned’ as, similarly, Reed Warbler. (Thank you to the true experts concerned.)

Perhaps I’ll need to be reduced in rank to, possibly, Acro Corporal. Lance Corporal would be shifting my familial allegiance !

Returning over the saltmarsh was a discombobulating experience, as Josh managed to slip heavily (and not just once), on one occasion losing his footwear in the depths of a seemingly bottomless sinkhole. It was as if he’d had one of the ‘heavier’ spa treatments and close to being hilarious. He attempted to wash off the stinky and sticky stuff in a brown pool. The photo shows how he looked afterwards, while brandishing his latest attempt to get back to the basics of birding- a wooden ‘scope (good for certain warblers and sandpipers, I suppose).

*DO NOT GO OUT HERE WITHOUT PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE DANGERS*
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 11:33   #9613
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Barred Warbler at the point

Having struggled to get any views of the Stiffkey bird - see John's post above. Alison and I trudged out to Blakeney Point yesterday as that bird was still showing in the plantation.
We staked out what I have always called the plantation - the fenced-off area with a few stunted Sycamores, Whitebeam and a bit of Bramble. No sign of the bird there after 1 1/2 hours so we checked out the Brambles near the Big Blue Building and there it was until a member of the reserve staff stuck his head over the ridge just 6 feet from the bird.
I have always called this area of Bramble the 'Lupins' after someone told me that was the birders' name for it (back in the late 80's).
Can anyone confirm the correct names for these 2 areas - it may be in your interest if I have to put further messages on the pager.

Dave
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 15:44   #9614
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[quote=Blakeney Resident;1915999]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Clarke View Post

hey Penny, yeah hadn't read your post before i started taking the pee but i hope me and Golley are cool and i'm sure he wouldn't mind me having a little giggle at him, i'll discuss it next time i see him.

In regard to the photo on the blog - its public domain! many people take photos off other peoples blogs - two reasons being to conclusively ID the bird or that it will raise an interesting ID debate and thats what this is, don't see anything wrong with armchair ID - after all we are all learning regardless of whether you're a Zen master or a young apprentice - you agree yeah?

In regard to the photo and the bird, the photo is not crap by any means and enough to iD the Skua to a specific species based on structure and some plumage, have a look at the Collins, i can't see any LTS features, behaviour is important too but maybe a Skua would act differently flying over land - i always base Skuas on those three things jizz, behaviour, plumage...

its just that LTS is now a description species so its important to get them right this year.
Dear All. Josh is correct in that LTS is a description species and all records will need to be submitted.

Clearly, what recent posts have raised is that small Skua ID is very tricky, particularly so, during the wind conditions and short views experienced during sea watches.

I would hope that nobody is trying to score points in recent exchanges! The observers (MG and EM) are very experienced. Their opinions on bird Id, I would rate very highly, much greater than my own. I would also comment, I did not see the bird concerned and must assume that Penny's photo is of the same bird that was called as a LTS.

Both Josh and David raise valid points. I do not think that either are trying to be unhelpful in any way. I am aware that Penny's photo has led to much discussion about small skua Id and consensus is that the photo is of an artic skua. The reality is that all "good birders" make mistakes - thats what makes them good birders!!! I am also aware that individuals can have different opinions on bird ID - that is what makes our hobby such fun!! I would also hope that where opinions are divided, that a healthy debate can be had by all those involved.

We all seek to improve our knowledge and want to be more skilled at our hobby - well at least I do!! I hope that Penny's photo can lead to some informed debate re skua indentification.

Happy seawatching!!!
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 19:23   #9615
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Agree with all of this - nice post.

I commented to a mate offline that if I were stood seawatching at Cley and either of those observers called a LTS (or anything else interesting), I'd try to get onto it in a flash - their record for finding and IDing good birds is superb. I don't think I'm even close to the same league... but by learning from photos, and other people's experience, I can aspire to get there gradually.

I'd ask again, in that spirit, does anyone think the photo is of a Long-tailed Skua?

Quote:
Originally Posted by black kite 1964 View Post

Clearly, what recent posts have raised is that small Skua ID is very tricky, particularly so, during the wind conditions and short views experienced during sea watches.

I would hope that nobody is trying to score points in recent exchanges! The observers (MG and EM) are very experienced. Their opinions on bird Id, I would rate very highly, much greater than my own. I would also comment, I did not see the bird concerned and must assume that Penny's photo is of the same bird that was called as a LTS.

Both Josh and David raise valid points. I do not think that either are trying to be unhelpful in any way. I am aware that Penny's photo has led to much discussion about small skua Id and consensus is that the photo is of an artic skua. The reality is that all "good birders" make mistakes - thats what makes them good birders!!! I am also aware that individuals can have different opinions on bird ID - that is what makes our hobby such fun!! I would also hope that where opinions are divided, that a healthy debate can be had by all those involved.

We all seek to improve our knowledge and want to be more skilled at our hobby - well at least I do!! I hope that Penny's photo can lead to some informed debate re skua indentification.

Happy seawatching!!!
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 19:35   #9616
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I saw the bird in question, in my humble opinion it was an arctic skua. It looked quite bulky, not attenuated at the rear end, had a wide base to the wings and large white flashes on the upper wing. There is a chance the bird behind north hide is not the bird in the photograph, there were a lot of skuas around that day.

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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 19:37   #9617
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Having struggled to get any views of the Stiffkey bird - see John's post above. Alison and I trudged out to Blakeney Point yesterday as that bird was still showing in the plantation.
We staked out what I have always called the plantation - the fenced-off area with a few stunted Sycamores, Whitebeam and a bit of Bramble. No sign of the bird there after 1 1/2 hours so we checked out the Brambles near the Big Blue Building and there it was until a member of the reserve staff stuck his head over the ridge just 6 feet from the bird.
I have always called this area of Bramble the 'Lupins' after someone told me that was the birders' name for it (back in the late 80's).
Can anyone confirm the correct names for these 2 areas - it may be in your interest if I have to put further messages on the pager.

Dave
I believe you are correct here Dave. The area of scrub near the blue building is called "the lupins", whereas the fenced off area you refer to is "the plantation".

I think I remember reading the message on BirdGuides as something like "Barred Warbler...at the plantation in the lupins...", so you may not have been the only ones looking at both areas!
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Old Thursday 2nd September 2010, 19:39   #9618
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There is a chance the bird behind north hide is not the bird in the photograph, there were a lot of skuas around that day.
I did wonder about the two bird theory - has to be a possibility.
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Old Friday 3rd September 2010, 10:12   #9619
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Skuas to the people, right on

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A small Skua was called as a Long-tailed whilst I was present at Cley, no doubt by one of the local experts. Many thanks to the individual who made sure we had seen it; we had, and at that distance I personally could not say whether it was an Arctic or the much hoped for Long-tailed. I do not believe this is ignorance on my part (ok, maybe a tad) but honesty. Some folk seemed happy being told what they had seen, I prefer to be 100% knowing what I have seen. Maybe this is asking too much, considering the conditions today? Still, quite a day to be out and about.
Cheers,
Jim.

edit: just looked at Lee's recent blog post: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogsp...-pitfalls.html

Now, to see one that close!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gedqNpd_90g

I'd echo what other people are saying - I've got great respect for these observers but at the same time i think it shows that Skua ID is a great leveller.

Next time someone calls a juv LTS or Pom ask 'em politely but straight out why? If it really was one chances are they will enjoy talking through ID features, so you learn, if they get defensive umm. I guess this can take a bit of balls - last year i disagreed with the entire shelter over a bird that i (bit strong this but who cares) know was a Pom, i've heard similar has already been going on this year

In the last few days quite a few people have said when you get a half decent view of a LTS the grey clouds melts away and ping! you got a lovely slim, lithe LTS dillydallying past you. Its the stigma they come attached with that says they are difficult that makes them difficult.

(and now for the grande finale) - I found my Skua enlightenment a few years back, watching the dogfights during long Skua heavy summer evenings at Sheringham. After racking up around 350 Arctics i finally had my Long-tail, it still ranks as one of my greatest encounters with birds. It feels like this journey is just beginning - long may it continue
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Old Friday 3rd September 2010, 11:21   #9620
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As a county lister in Yorkshire, I am interested in who is in the top ten with their Norfolk list and how many is it.
In Yorkshire we have agreed a list along the BBRC and BOU guide lines, has that been done in Norfolk.
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Old Friday 3rd September 2010, 14:51   #9621
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Juv. red backed shrike this afternoon at Holme was quite active, quite a few common migrants as well but no joy with the other reported goodies in the vicinity, though I did tick Black Kite 1964.
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Old Friday 3rd September 2010, 22:18   #9622
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http://www.freewebs.com/punkbirder/e...enewgloria.htm


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Old Saturday 4th September 2010, 19:09   #9623
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Barred from view

Gramboro’ yieded little, save for a splash of autumn colour (LH photo).

Friary Hills gave a Meerkat lookalike. It ran past, looked back at me in surprise, didn’t like what it saw- and vanished under some brambles. I would not give up that easily ! Squeaking like Sweep on speed, I enticed it out a few times, enabling the two shots.

A long pilgrimage westwards resulted in the Holme Redneck. Such a lovely, delicate spinner. Flight views of Barred Warbler were again obtained. This is becoming a pattern. The Redback was better behaved.
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Old Saturday 4th September 2010, 20:13   #9624
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I had a great day at Strumpshaw today, starting off with nice views of a Kingfisher in front of Fen hide. I even finally managed to get a few reasonable photos of it. I walked to Buckenham Marshes and on the way was treated to cracking views of two Hobbies catching dragonflies over a paddock and taking them to two youngsters waiting in a tree at the side.

A Buckenham I discovered that the new hide was a very comfy spot to sit and eat my sandwiches with a pleasant view outside. Not a lot happening though. On the way back along the track there was a very large flock of Goldfinches flying between the few trees there. They looked stunning in the sunshine.

I then spotted a Common Buzzard circling on a thermal and slowly drifting towards Strumpshaw. This was followed soon afterwards by the appearance of an Osprey from the direction of Strumpshaw. It slowly flew over the station and disappeared into the trees on the right. At the time I thought it was carrying a fish but, looking at the terrible, distant photo, it appears to be a rodent of some kind.

I walked back to Strumpshaw, pausing to watch the Hobbies once more, and, after a visit to the Tower Hide, I ended up in the Reception hide, where I was surprised and pleased to find a Spotted Flycatcher in the trees next to the hide.

All in all, a great day out in fantastic weather.

Ron
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Old Saturday 4th September 2010, 20:57   #9625
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Horsey-Waxham last two mornings:
Lapland Bunting, singles near Pipe Dump both days. Whinchat, 1, Wheatear, 2, Yellow Wag 2-3, Hobby 1-2. Lots of Whitethroats, Lesser 'throats and Blackcaps, with a handful of other warblers. Very few phylloscs.
Cheers
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