Some digiscoping experiments with a dslr (1 Viewer)

Yeah Paul, know what you mean, If I didn´t have a great son, I would not have a scope, in fact I would not have a digital camera, on a pension doesn´t leave much for such luxuries. I would be still using an antiquated SLR.
The images are showing up real good now. Ernie

Paul,
Super shots Paul. Keep them coming.
Neil.

Hi Paul
just some advise please i currently have the same as you a Samsung GX 1L but im using mine with a kowa adaptor on to a kowa scope TSN 2 but im having probs with the setting for the camera, what settings do you use? i struggle with focusing looks fine on the camera till i put it on comp then its not quite sharp enough and also looks fairly dull
any advise is welcome
cheers
Vince

highlander64 said:

Hi Paul
just some advise please i currently have the same as you a Samsung GX 1L but im using mine with a kowa adaptor on to a kowa scope TSN 2 but im having probs with the setting for the camera, what settings do you use? i struggle with focusing looks fine on the camera till i put it on comp then its not quite sharp enough and also looks fairly dull
any advise is welcome
cheers
Vince

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Hi Vince,

The settings I use are -

manual mode - jpeg (finest setting) - continuous shooting - usually ISO400

I don't bother too much with the meter readings from the camera because on my scope I find I need to under expose by quite a bit (compared to what the camera says I need) to get the desired result and avoid them looking too dull. Photoshop comes to the rescue to correct any exposures that are a little off. I also use 'Smart Sharpen' in Photoshop to get them as sharp as the ones I post in this thread. The photos straight off the camera are ok but with 'Smart Sharpen' they look ultra sharp.

Maybe post up a couple of your best images to show what you are getting with the Kowa.

Paul.

Hi Paul

thanks for that im still messing about but have not had good light the last couple of days so thats making it harder, i attached one pic i managed to take and adjusted in paint shop pr, this was taken bout 12 meters away, still slightly out of focus

At 12m you would expect the detail to be pretty good. I don't know anything about the Kowa scope or adapter. Does the adapter have any optics in it? As my pics show the camera is capable of decent results so I guess the image is degrading somewhere through the optical path.


Weather has been poor for a few days but here's one I took a few days ago through the 2X teleconverter.

I ordered a Baader Semi Apo filter today and shall post some results when it arrives. It's a new filter by Baader for removing aberrations and increasing contrast/detail. I've seen some test photos elsewhere on the web showing before and after results and it does an excellent job. Can't wait to try it.

Paul.

yes the adaptor has optics it is a proper kowa adaptor, maybe its time to get a new scope ?, ill have another ness about and see what happens been reading up on more of the cameras settings , thanks for your advice Paul, nice sunny day today to have a go
regards
Vince

Paul Corfield said:

At 12m you would expect the detail to be pretty good. I don't know anything about the Kowa scope or adapter. Does the adapter have any optics in it? As my pics show the camera is capable of decent results so I guess the image is degrading somewhere through the optical path.


Weather has been poor for a few days but here's one I took a few days ago through the 2X teleconverter.

I ordered a Baader Semi Apo filter today and shall post some results when it arrives. It's a new filter by Baader for removing aberrations and increasing contrast/detail. I've seen some test photos elsewhere on the web showing before and after results and it does an excellent job. Can't wait to try it.

Paul.

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Paul, looks as though you have the system up and running, the image looks great. Ernie

Paul, I hope you are still monitoring this thread.

I finally got the adapters needed to try the prime-focus mode you demonstrated here but I cannot focus at a distance. My maximum focus distance is about 4 meters... not very handy for digiscoping :C

Here is my setup:
Canon 20D DSLR without lens
EOS adapter for 20D
Spacers and/or Canon 1.4X tele-converter
Nosepiece adapter for scope
Pentax PF80ED scope

I have 2 tube spacers, 15mm and 65mm, as well as a set of Kenko extension tubes, 12-20-36mm. I tried all possible combinaisons between the camera and the scope, from 50mm to 142mm. to no avail.

I also tried a Canon 1.4X tele-converter with and without the spacers (all combinaisons) - still no focusing at a distance.

What's wrong ?

Attached is a picture of all spacers and extension tubes connected together.

JGobeil said:

I also tried a Canon 1.4X tele-converter with and without the spacers (all combinaisons) - still no focusing at a distance.

What's wrong ?

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Jules,
I don't think a spotter will work at prime focus properly. Remember unlike an astro scope a spotter has a built in prism which can not be removed for prime focus work like you would with a astro scope. At least that has been my experience so far.

Sparrow

Thanks Sout,

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a prism doing in a spotting scope besides inverting the image ?

JGobeil said:

Thanks Sout,

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a prism doing in a spotting scope besides inverting the image ?

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It also increases the over-all focal length of the scope typically by about 50mm or so.

Try this:
Just use the nose piece with the t ring and I will bet it will come to focus at very close distances of about 20 feet or so but not at infinity. In other words you need to get the focal plane of the camera as close to the prism as possible (in focus). DONT use any extensions of any kind and keep whatever you are adding to the back end of your scope as short as possible.

Sparrow

Sout Fork said:

It also increases the over-all focal length of the scope typically by about 50mm or so.

Try this:
Just use the nose piece with the t ring and I will bet it will come to focus at very close distances of about 20 feet or so but not at infinity. In other words you need to get the focal plane of the camera as close to the prism as possible (in focus). DONT use any extensions of any kind and keep whatever you are adding to the back end of your scope as short as possible.

Sparrow

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Yes, I tried that. End piece and EOS adapter, nothing else. it focuses at about 4 meters +/- about nothing. Not very handy for digiscoping. :C

I am now looking for a 50mm lens at a good price. Canon makes a cheap one that is quite good but it has a plastic mount and wiggles quite a bit, not very good for digiscoping. However, the older model is metal - I am searching for one of those.

Of course, there is always the Pentax adapter but it is very expensive...

JGobeil said:

Yes, I tried that. End piece and EOS adapter, nothing else. it focuses at about 4 meters +/- about nothing. Not very handy for digiscoping. :C

I am now looking for a 50mm lens at a good price. Canon makes a cheap one that is quite good but it has a plastic mount and wiggles quite a bit, not very good for digiscoping. However, the older model is metal - I am searching for one of those.

Of course, there is always the Pentax adapter but it is very expensive...

Click to expand...

Yes it's too bad it won't work.

All I know is that I couldn't get it to focus properly no matter what I tried. I don't think it's the fault of the scope. I don't think any spotter with a built in prism will work at prime focus. On my 100mm I was getting a greater focus range than you seem to be getting however. About 15-30 feet or so. The ORIOLE shot was taken this way. Of course no correct image - left and right and up and down are reversed in viewfinder.

Also the Pentax adapter works very well if you can afford it - the eagle was taken with the adapter and the 100mm Pentax at about 300 feet at 38x.

I am new to digiscoping, recieved scope last week and is trying with both DSLR and PS these past few days. Lot of difficulties with attachments, weight distribution, etc. I have attached a few shots which I took from my apartment window to the antenna of a neighboring buliding, I estimate it to be 150feet give or take several more.

Hi All,

Paul Corfield and Sout Fork,

When I have 2xtc, DSLR and attachments on I find it very difficult to control the vibration which I think causes the majority of my pictures to be on the soft side. I also have a backend weight problem which gives me a hell of a time to get the scope locked onto the subject. The scope almost always tilt backwards slightly after tightening the arm which throws the subject off centering. I am using a manfrotto 808RC4 head, am I using the wrong head? Do you have any reccommendations on how I can lower or eliminate the vibration and scope drift?

With my 2x tc attached I lose a lot of light and of course vibration is also increased 2x as well, I am thinking of replacing it with something more efficent. Do the extenders do the same thing like the tc except with less glass between? Does it increase image size or focusing distance or both.

Trinie said:

Hi All,

Paul Corfield and Sout Fork,

When I have 2xtc, DSLR and attachments on I find it very difficult to control the vibration which I think causes the majority of my pictures to be on the soft side. I also have a backend weight problem which gives me a hell of a time to get the scope locked onto the subject. The scope almost always tilt backwards slightly after tightening the arm which throws the subject off centering. I am using a manfrotto 808RC4 head, am I using the wrong head? Do you have any reccommendations on how I can lower or eliminate the vibration and scope drift?

With my 2x tc attached I lose a lot of light and of course vibration is also increased 2x as well, I am thinking of replacing it with something more efficent. Do the extenders do the same thing like the tc except with less glass between? Does it increase image size or focusing distance or both.

Click to expand...

Hi Trinie.

I'll give you some info on my technique. For taking photos of birds I keep the tripod head totally loose, I don't tighten up the arm unless i'm taking photos of the moon and then I like everything to be tight. For that I generally use a second tripod though. You can get extra multi jointed arms like the Manfrotto Magic Arm to add onto the tripod. One end grips onto the tripod and the other end has a plate to mount to the camera base and the whole lot can be locked up rigid. That may help offset the weight problem. I generally keep the camera around my neck and only attach it to the scope when I see something I'm going to photograph. Then I just quickly poke the t-mount nosepiece into the scope, do up the locking screw and it's good to go, takes just a few seconds. I take all my photos using the continuous shutter mode, this avoids any problems with vibration as you take so many photos and some, if not all, will always be sharp. Even with a 3X or 4X converter I still use it without locking up the head.

What scope and teleconverter do you have? Remember that any method you use for magnification will increase the F number of the scope and if the objective lens isn't good enough then you are just multiplying a bad image to begin with. So a 2X teleconverter or barlow lens will basically double the F ratio of the scope. My scope is an 480mm F6 so it goes up to a 960mm F12 with the teleconverter. Without the teleconverter I get shutter speeds of over 1/1000 but with the teleconverter in the same conditions it will go down to around 1/500 - 1/350. Still plenty fast enough for a sharp photo though. Also good glass needs to be present throughout the scope so that the detail is preserved throught to the camera ccd. If your teleconverter is a 4 element design then look for a 7 element design.

With a teleconverter I can basically mount it straight into the scope without needing to add in extensions to obtain focus. If you go for a barlow/extender type lens you will need something like a 3" of extension to keep focus. This will give you more trouble as it will extend the weight even further back. Image brightness is about the same because you are still doubling the F ratio of the scope which is what governs the light getting to the camera. A good quality barlow from someone like Televue maybe an idea. Beyond that there's the Televue Powermate. It all boils down to the quality of the glass and the scope needs to be upto the job before you worry too much about what's doing the magnification.

Also for the longer range shots atmospheric conditions will play a big part in the final image. For instance, if it's a sunny day and you are photographing a bird sat on a roof top aerial there maybe some heat shimmer coming from the sun heating up the roof tiles. Heat shimmer will totally remove any detail in the final image. Any haze present in the air will also reduce details. Never photograph through a glass window. I also never photograph through an open window. If there's a difference in temperatures from the house to the outside air then a heat shimmer will also be present.

Also just try and get as close as possible to the subject to resolve the most amount of detail.

Hope that helps,

Paul.

Paul,
Very interesting info. In order to keep the tripod head totaly loose, your "camere", that is dslr + teleconverter/barlow + scope, must be balanced on the tripod. What kind of plate do you use to connect the scope to the tripod head ?

JGobeil said:

Paul,
Very interesting info. In order to keep the tripod head totaly loose, your "camere", that is dslr + teleconverter/barlow + scope, must be balanced on the tripod. What kind of plate do you use to connect the scope to the tripod head ?

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I just use the standard tripod mount. Because the camera is round my neck it's never on the scope when the scopes not being used. As soon as I'm going to take a photo I'm loosening the locking handle on the tripod as I'm pushing the camera t-mount nosepiece into the scope. It's second nature to me, one fluid movement. Quite often I don't even bother tightening the locking nut that holds the t-mount nosepiece/camera in the scope. While the camera is on the scope I've always got a hold of it so the balance isn't an issue. As I'm guiding the scope I just keep the camera gently pushed in and after a series of photos I pull the camera out to check the exposure etc. The moment I pull the camera out of the scope I'm also locking the tripod head with my other hand. The scope is the only thing on the tripod when I'm not using it so it's balanced at those times.

Paul.

Thank you for the helpful information.

I guess you have developed this technique and have used it enough that it's become second nature to you.

Something else I forgot to ask earlier, how do you avoid fringing/CA. I do all the things that one reads about on how to avoid or reduce it like keeping the sun at your back etc, but I still seem to get a lot of it in many of my shots although I do get a few which show almost nothing. The glass on my scope is ED which should reduce this aberration to a degree. I have changed positions when I notice the fringing but to no avail. I have also tried re-focusing slightly one way or the other to see if this would help. I read your post where you mentioned that using a Williams Optics VR-1 will reduce fringing. Does it really work? What is the cost of this filter, what sizes does it come in and what is the availability of it?