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Advice Needed: Victory HT or SF? (2 Viewers)

Stanbo said:
Torview,

I agree, but I would keep stum on anything about the EDG's, as you will always come under fire from the Teutonic Alpha brigade. Pity them!

Steve,

More seriously, if you having problems holding binoculars still, can I suggest that you look at 7x42's. I had the same problem and moved to that magnification with great success. (Don't tell anyone, but it was a Nikon 7x42 EDG which is probably the best of the EDG series)

Stan
Click to expand...

Stan,
Thanks for the suggestion. I plant to take a drive out to Lost Creek Shoe Shop toward the end of the week, and I will be sure to try out some 7x42's if they have any in stock (Leica Ultravids, Nikon EDGs, used Zeiss FL 7x42 if I can find one, anything else?)

Thanks again!
Steve
 
Last edited:
BruceH said:
Here are some transmission figures to shed a little "light" on the issue of brightness.

Leica Ultravid HD 8X32:
- Allbinos 91.7% http://www.allbinos.com/183-binoculars_review-Leica_Ultravid_8x32_HD.html

Leica Ultravid HD 8X42:
- Allbinos 88.1% http://www.allbinos.com/246-binoculars_review-Leica_Ultravid_8x42_HD.html
- Dr. Ginkel 83% / 86% (500nm/555nm)

Zeiss 8X42 HT:
- Zeiss Website 95% (First Page) http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...victory-binoculars/victory-ht-binoculars.html

Zeiss 8X42 SF:
- Zeiss Website 92% (Features Tab) http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...inoculars/victory-sf-binoculars.html#features

Swaro EL SV 8.5X42:
- Allbinos 87.8% http://www.allbinos.com/251-binoculars_review-Swarovski_EL_8.5x42_Swarovision.html
- Dr. Ginkel 89% / 90% (500nm/555nm)

Swaro SLC HD 8X42:
- Dr. Ginkel 89% / 92% (500nm/555nm)

Dr. Ginkels report-Table 1C: https://translate.googleusercontent...11.pdf&usg=ALkJrhi8jMTyOZCdKaRdEa8Mfzo79h9u6g
Click to expand...


BruceH,

Thanks for the reference!

Interesting that the Leica Ultravid HD 8x32 measures brighter than the Ultravid HD 8x42? The Zeiss HT 8x42 measures the brightest, but that is Zeiss measuring itself - would be perhaps more meaningful if allbinos measured them, just to ensure the brightness measurements could be more directly compared.

Of course, I doubt that I would be able to tell the difference between a brightness difference of 2-3% anyway... <grin>

Steve
 
Steve260 said:
Interesting that the Leica Ultravid HD 8x32 measures brighter than the Ultravid HD 8x42? The Zeiss HT 8x42 measures the brightest, but that is Zeiss measuring itself - would be perhaps more meaningful if allbinos measured them, just to ensure the brightness measurements could be more directly compared.
Click to expand...

I'd be rather careful with Allbinos' figures. There are several measurements on their site that are so out of this world that I'd question their reliability.

I trust Gijs van Ginkel's measurements much more.

Hermann
 
Hermann,
In response to your question in post 20:
I have measured transmission values of a Leica Trinovid 8x32BA from 1992 (the BN version was released in 2001 and I did not investigate one, allthough the main improvement of the BN was a closer focus: 3,5 m for the BA and 2,1 m for the BN. The production years are derived from Gary Hawkins booklet "Novelties. The story of the Leica Trinovid", ed. 2007).

Leica Trinovid 8x32BA:
500nm=81,4%
550nm=82,8% transmission

Gijs van Ginkel
 
Hermann,
I am sorry, but I gave you wrong numbers in post 25, they are from a Leica Trinovid 8x20 from 1981. The transmission numbers of the Leica Trinovid 8x32 BA from 1992 are:
500 nm= 88%
550 nm= 89%
I apologize for the confusion.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Hello Gijs,

Have you measured the transmission of the latest Swarovski Habicht 10x40 and/or 8x30?
Doing "tests..." with my nake eyes MANY times at different hours in a day, comparing the FL 10x42 and the HT 10x42 with one of the latest or newest Habicht 10x40 W GA, and trying to convince myself of the superior transmission of the FL/HT, I must admit the Habicht 10x40 shows a very little advantage at the last lights at down/dusk times....May be the less number of lenses in the Habicht, plus a very good coatings in it, are the reason of their outstanding transmission. Who knows...?
Thank you!

PHA
 
PHA said:
Hello Gijs,

Have you measured the transmission of the latest Swarovski Habicht 10x40 and/or 8x30?
Doing "tests..." with my nake eyes MANY times at different hours in a day, comparing the FL 10x42 and the HT 10x42 with one of the latest or newest Habicht 10x40 W GA, and trying to convince myself of the superior transmission of the FL/HT, I must admit the Habicht 10x40 shows a very little advantage at the last lights at down/dusk times....May be the less number of lenses in the Habicht, plus a very good coatings in it, are the reason of their outstanding transmission. Who knows...?
Thank you!

PHA
Click to expand...

You do have a good question, and that is how published light transmission
from tests translate to what you see with your own eyes. An image
sensor in a lab, is not the whole story.

I have determined that those hard numbers may not always be
how the makers selected coatings affect what we see with our eyes.

If you like what you have found through the Habicht, I think that is
the most important factor. ;)

Jerry
 
The BAs I've seen sure didn't appear to be within a scarcely perceptible 3% of the FL, which is nominally 93%. Nor did the marginally brighter BNs, nor the obviously brighter BRs even. I like Leicas a lot, but those older ones don't seem super bright. And I doubt, sly as they are and gullible as I am, that opticians can make a binocular that is bright, that doesn't seem bright. Why would they? Bright is good, bright sells.

Oh well. Jerry is right. Trying to predict the view on the basis of measurements doesn't always work.

Ron
 
Hi Jerry,

I agree with you. But, I think also there must be a match between what your eye shows and the transmission values reflects. This is not just an "impression". I want to know (may be someone has measured) the actual transmission of the newest Habicht. The difference over the HT are so small that is of no relevance. Thats why I would like to know more about....
Anyway, I must say, as a whole and for my uses, I chose now the HT 10x42 as my main binocular. I found it has the outstanding view of my former FL, plus the bigger "sweet spot", plus the design of the focusing and the diopters wheels, plus the ergonomics. I found with this HT I don't need to adjust the diopter setting frecuently as I should with my FL...I thought that "problem" were my eyes (60 plus...) shifting its setting a little. It does but with the HT the diopter wheel stay at the same point as the first day....

PHA
 
Gentlemen,
Because of the many discussions on this forum about brightness and the remarks that measurements do not say anything about binocular brightness, I have written an English review paper in which all the factors that influence image brightness are discussed. I published it on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor entitled "About Color vision etc."
Image brightness is influenced by a number of factors: light transmission, color balance under the transmission curve (which color preference is found in the transmission graph; a good example is the choice by Zeiss for a long time to make high transmissions in the green-yellow region, which is considered by our eyes as bright), the size of the exit pupil of course and perfect contrast transfer.
So binocular life is not easy, but be sure that every binocular maker does perform a lot of measurements before production starts and these measurements are checked over and over by visual inspections.
Gijs
 
Gijs,

Could you please post a link to the English review paper "About Color vision etc." you wrote? I cannot find the English translated site for House of Outdoor, so I had to use "Google Translate" to translate the site from Dutch to English - but I could not locate the review paper you wrote.
Thanks!
Steve
 
By the way, about your commentaries, I mentioned specially "down/dusk..." as the daytime I made the observations.

Thank you again!

PHA
 
PHA,
The transmission values of the different Swarovski Habichts are:
Habicht 8x30: 500nm = 95,1% and 550 nm = 95,9%
Habicht 7x42: 500nm = 95% and 550 nm = 95,3%
Habicht 10x40 military: 500 nm = 91,2% and 550 nm 93,2%

The images of all three Habichts are very bright and color reproduction is excellent (visual inspection).
Gijs
 
Steve260 said:
Good morning everyone (from here in Central PA),

This is my first post to this forum, although I have spent the last week or so reading the various threads. There is clearly a LOT of experience and knowledge here!

I wonder if I could ask for some advice?

I have a pair of Zeiss Victory HT 10x42 binoculars that I have been very pleased with. As I get older, I am finding it more difficult to hold them steady for longer periods, so I am considering the purchase of a pair of 8x42s for more every-day use. The 10x42s don't feel heavy to me - the 10-power magnification just is becoming harder to hold steady. I think the tradeoff of a little magnification for the steadier and wider view of 8x42s would probably be worth it.

My question is this: should I purchase a pair of Victory HT 8x42s now, or wait for the 8x42 SFs to be available this fall? There are no Zeiss dealers near my home, so I won't be able to try out either model before purchasing. The difference in cost is not really a factor for me. I am just seeking to give my aging eyes the best possible view under the widest range of conditions.

Any and all advice would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance,
Steve
Click to expand...

Welcome Steve!

Yet another member from PA! Out of all the "colonies," PA must have the most members represented on the BF bin forums.

Lost Creek carries a full line of alpha optics. If you dig through the BF archives, you will find another Steve's (mooreorless) thread "A Trip to Lost Creek," which has photos. I also wrote an article about the store for a Central PA newspaper. If you go there on an overcast day, bring a flash light, they are Amish and don't have electricity! They have a viewing area outdoors where you can compare binoculars.

The tough part will be calling them to find out when they will have the SFs since they don't have a phone! They do have a phone number listed, but it's their neighbor's. I have reached the Troyers at the number. You just have to be persistent.

I know you're a Zeissman, and I'm not looking to convert you (if I were, I'd recommend a Nikon SE or EII), but while you're at Lost Creek, try out the 8x42 SLC-HD for the Halibut. I tried the 10x42 model, and I've got shaky hands like you, but thanks to excellent balance and good heft, the views were rock solid. Excellent image that's sharp almost to the edge. Only the second roof that I'd be willing to knock over a 7-Eleven for, the other being the original 8x32 EL.

Since money is no object (the only time I'll ever be saying that is in Heaven ;)), I'd recommend holding off until the SF is out so you can compare it to the 8x42 HT. If the Troyers are as generous with the trade-ins as they were with Steve's 20-year-old 7x30 SLC, you will get a nice price for your HTs.

If you do compare the HT and SF, I hope you will post some comments on BF.

Brock
 
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