Hybrid Paciffic Black Duck*Mallard? (1 Viewer)

Dimitris · Sep 16, 2005

Quite a few of these on my local patch(one of them).Looked a bit messed up(I'm quite sure they are hybrids.Just want confirmation).Got a few shots of this guy.Think his a male.Also got my first Olive-backed and Channel-billed Cuckoo today :bounce:

Also attached some 100% pure Paciffic Black Ducks(last photo from the left).

Thanks in advance,

Dimitris

James Eaton · Sep 16, 2005

Hi Dimitris,

What makes you think these could be hybrids? Judging by the face pattern, I would say there is a strong possibility of these being pure Pacific Black Ducks. The face pattern is as strong as pure birds I have seen in Indonesia, and the rest of the plumage doesn't seem irregular. I have a photo of a bird from Indonesia below -

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?action=searchresult&Bird_ID=180

Also see http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...ID=180&Bird_Image_ID=7893&Bird_Family_ID=&p=2

Well done with Channel-billed Cuckoo, what an incredible, prehistoric looking bird. They look even more bizarre in flight!

All the best

James

Dimitris · Sep 16, 2005

James Eaton said:
Hi Dimitris,

What makes you think these could be hybrids? Judging by the face pattern, I would say there is a strong possibility of these being pure Pacific Black Ducks. The face pattern is as strong as pure birds I have seen in Indonesia, and the rest of the plumage doesn't seem irregular.

Hmm...the lines don't appear to be clear cut(how do I say it...).Also face is not as light as 'normal' birds maybe this shot will help(bird in question on the left.Note also that wing feathers are as dark as 'normal birds'.Also the glossy wing feathers(can't remember theyr name) are purple/green rather then pure green(I'm aware that P.B.D 'glossy' wing feathers can appear purple.but normaly theyr green)

But maybe it's just individual variation

Edward · Sep 16, 2005

Seem Ok to me, Dimi, for normal PBD

Congrats on the Channel-billed Cuckoo, it's without doubt one of my all-time top ten favourite birds. As James says, a prehistoric looking bird, variously described as a flying cross or a flying walking stick. Wait until you hear it! I have fond memories of Olive-backed Oriole too, the first lifer on my last trip to Australia.

E

Joern Lehmhus · Sep 16, 2005

Have a look at this, scroll down,it is one of the last hybrid pics -head patterns of New Zealand Grey Duck x Mallard hybrids

http://www.harteman.nl/omnibus/hybrids/index2.html

perhaps this helps in deciding?

James Eaton · Sep 16, 2005

Some rediculous looking hybrids there Joern! I particulary like the Goldeneye x Smew. I still believe the birds that Dimitris photographed are Pacific Black Ducks. Though his latest pic of the closer bird appears more interesting, though this could be due to the angle of the bird. Were there any other species present alongside the Black Ducks?

Dave B · Sep 17, 2005

James Eaton said:
Hi Dimitris,

What makes you think these could be hybrids? Judging by the face pattern, I would say there is a strong possibility of these being pure Pacific Black Ducks. The face pattern is as strong as pure birds I have seen in Indonesia, and the rest of the plumage doesn't seem irregular. I have a photo of a bird from Indonesia below -

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?action=searchresult&Bird_ID=180

Also see http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...ID=180&Bird_Image_ID=7893&Bird_Family_ID=&p=2

Well done with Channel-billed Cuckoo, what an incredible, prehistoric looking bird. They look even more bizarre in flight!

All the best

James

The back end of these birds/this bird strikes me as odd. The tertials seem to be a rather plain grey brown, with no noticeable fringes, which would fit a drake Mallard rather than PBD. Also, the blackish upper and undertail coverts, contrasting with pale tail fit the former more than the latter I think. So to me, there are grounds for suspecting its parentage!

Cheers,

Dave

Dimitris · Sep 20, 2005

James Eaton said:
Some rediculous looking hybrids there Joern! I particulary like the Goldeneye x Smew. I still believe the birds that Dimitris photographed are Pacific Black Ducks. Though his latest pic of the closer bird appears more interesting, though this could be due to the angle of the bird. Were there any other species present alongside the Black Ducks?

Hello James and evryone,

Yes,other species of Anas were present:

3 Mallard(farmyard birds...)
and the 2 Aussie Teals(Chestnut and Grey),lots of them(about 20 of each)

I remember a while back(3years ago) that there was a wild (aka naturarly looking,coloured etc) female Mallard on this site.She was quite happy to hang about with P.B.Ds and there were no male Mallards back then.Maybe this guy is one her children/grandchildren?As for this guy he was courting along with a domestic drake Mallard and a pure Paciffic Black Duck a female P.B.D.Thankfully the female chose the normal P.B.D(they mated afterwards).
There are quite a few pairs with young on the site now.
If I'm able to get onto the net later I'll post more pictures of the bird.

(Edward,I did hear it call.Sounded like a freaking dinosaur!(well it reminded me of one,I haven't heard any live dinosaurs).I read in the guide that it's also known as 'Rainbird','Stormbird',etc that's definately true:we got a thunderstorm just 2 hours after I saw the bird!)

Cheers and thanx for the replies,

Dimitris

Dimitris · Sep 20, 2005

Dave B said:
The back end of these birds/this bird strikes me as odd. The tertials seem to be a rather plain grey brown, with no noticeable fringes, which would fit a drake Mallard rather than PBD. Also, the blackish upper and undertail coverts, contrasting with pale tail fit the former more than the latter I think. So to me, there are grounds for suspecting its parentage!

Cheers,

Dave

Hi Dave,

That's what I thought too.They behind looks very like drake Mallard!

MikeMules · Sep 20, 2005

Dimitris, what colour were their legs? Black Duck hybrids have bright orange legs, and as I think you mentioned, a more purple/blue speculum.

Channel-billed Cuckoo's nice, where are you based at the moment?

Joern Lehmhus · Sep 20, 2005

Dave B said:
The back end of these birds/this bird strikes me as odd. The tertials seem to be a rather plain grey brown, with no noticeable fringes, which would fit a drake Mallard rather than PBD. Also, the blackish upper and undertail coverts, contrasting with pale tail fit the former more than the latter I think. So to me, there are grounds for suspecting its parentage!

Cheers,

Dave

If this is no photo artefact (I don´t think so), I´d also suspect that duck has a Mallard in its parentage, but is not nessecarily a first generation hybrid.

Plain-greybrown tertials and blackish upper and undertail coverts also occur in male hybrids of Mallard with other closely related species without a pronounced male plumage (with American Black Duck (A. rubripes) and with Northern Spotbilled Duck (A. poecilorhyncha), for example).

EDIT: But also there I am not sure if they are F1...
Another hint on mallard parentage are the upcurled feathers on the mallard back-male hybrids show at least a trace of upcurling on these feathers

Dimitris · Sep 23, 2005

MikeMules said:
Dimitris, what colour were their legs? Black Duck hybrids have bright orange legs, and as I think you mentioned, a more purple/blue speculum.

Channel-billed Cuckoo's nice, where are you based at the moment?

G'day Mike.

Yes it does have bright orange legs as well as a more purple/blue speculum(thanx for the word,had forgotten it).I got some other pictures that show it well along side pure P.B.Ds (Paciffic Black Ducks),unfortunately I can't post the pictures now as I am on the Library PC.

I'm based at Bateman's Bay N.S.W.(just an hour and a half south of Canbera).Heard another Channel-billed today but I didn't manage to see it.(According to my guide these birds are about half a month earlier then theyr supposed too.Nice birds anyway)

Cheers,

Dimitris

EDIT:Aren't P.B.D supposed to have greenish/greenish-orange legs?

Dimitris · Sep 23, 2005

Joern Lehmhus said:
If this is no photo artefact (I don´t think so), I´d also suspect that duck has a Mallard in its parentage, but is not nessecarily a first generation hybrid.

Plain-greybrown tertials and blackish upper and undertail coverts also occur in male hybrids of Mallard with other closely related species without a pronounced male plumage (with American Black Duck (A. rubripes) and with Northern Spotbilled Duck (A. poecilorhyncha), for example).

EDIT: But also there I am not sure if they are F1...
Another hint on mallard parentage are the upcurled feathers on the mallard back-male hybrids show at least a trace of upcurling on these feathers

Hi Joern,

No,it's not an artefact.The birds plumage is like that.I haven't noticed if it has 'upcurled feathers'.If it does,they must be very small.What generation it is I cannot know.I just hope the P.B.D ducklings I see on the site are all pure

.

Thanks for your reply,

Dimitris.

(BTW.I'm now convinced it's a hybrid/or has Mallard genes in it.)

Joern Lehmhus · Sep 23, 2005

Yep, orange legs and speculum colour give away the hybrid

Dimitris · Sep 24, 2005

Just to confirm here are a few shots of the bird with others for comparison.

Cheers,

Dimitris

Hybrid Paciffic Black Duck*Mallard? (1 Viewer)

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