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Question regarding Jena 7x50 (1 Viewer)

A

AcaCandy

Member
Hi everyone. Looks like a nice forum here :t:

I purchased a pair of binoculars (Jena 7x50) off eBay awhile back.

The owner also sent a customs manifest for importation duties dated 1947.

I don't know that much about binoculars, thought it would be cool to have a pair that appeared to be vintage.

They are in great condition, both eyes focus individually, came with a leather case, binoculars are stamped with a number, I'm guessing to be a serial or production number --- 32144 (which is also on the manifest) --- but in looking closer, the "1" could be an "L" --- any ideas on date and/or origination?

Thanks in advance.
 
Are you sure the number has just five digits in it? Is there any other clue as to age, like on the case? Does it seem likely the binocular is much older than the customs manifest of 1947 (i.e. not imported as 'new' at that time)? I ask because the serial number 32144 suggests it's more than a hundred years old. IF oculars most likely naval/military origin...
I'm assuming 'Jena' means it was a Zeiss, but does that name actually appear on the binocular?
 
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Yes, I'm certain there are only 5 digits.

The gentleman included a story:

"The story goes it was traded just after WW2 from a German Officer for a carton of American Cigarettes. Was then owned by a US Merchant Marine Captain until his retirement in the 1970's."

It is stamped ontop (left hand side) Carl Zeiss (first line) Jena (second line)
It is stamped ontop (right hand side) 7x50

The leather case has a number D-43813. Upon looking closer at the front fastener on the case, the case may have been purchased in the U.S. The fastener (on the back) reads Boston, MA ------ United Carr

and yes, I would guess by the appearance (although they are in great shape) --- that they could be older than the manifest of 1947.

Thank you for your reply.

EDIT: the port of entry was Boston, MA on the manifest.
 
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This Zeiss 7x50, number 32144, confirmed in the 1947 customs manifest, must therefore have been made prior to 1947. Jena serial numbers indicate no.32144 was made in 1901 when 9,498 binoculars of all Jena types were produced, with serial nos. 30659 to 40156. However, the very first Zeiss 7x50 was not made until 1910 and production would have commenced early in 1914, at the start of WW1, so the serial number doesn't 'fit in' with these records. My guess is that it was probably made in the 1930s, or more likely during WW2, with the IF individual focus (as opposed to centre-wheel focus) originating from a naval/military specification. Lots of WW2 gear was sold/exchanged shortly after the war, a clue which this 1947 import reinforces (imported from where... Germany?). A picture of your binocular would help identify the model, age and origin.
 
Hello AcaCandy,

I suggest that the binocular was not as originally made: perhaps a fake or put together from disparate models. A carton of cigarettes would have been far too low a price. I would think that in post-war Germany, a genuine Zeiss binocular would have fetched at least a carton of condoms.

Were the marking actually "stamped" or engraved?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Here are some pics, thanks for the assistance so far.
 

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Pinewood said:
Hello AcaCandy,

I suggest that the binocular was not as originally made: perhaps a fake or put together from disparate models. A carton of cigarettes would have been far too low a price. I would think that in post-war Germany, a genuine Zeiss binocular would have fetched at least a carton of condoms.

Were the marking actually "stamped" or engraved?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
Click to expand...

Definitely engraved, not stamped.

Can't say anything about the "exchange rate" :eek!:
 
AcaCandy said:
Here are some pics, thanks for the assistance so far.
Click to expand...

The binoculars were definitely not made by Zeiss or any other German manufacturer. Zeiss didn't make porros with that type of body, and I don't know of any traditional German manufacturer that used it. That body type is often referred to as the Bausch & Lomb type over here. The engravings are also not genuine, I've never seen any Zeiss binocular with such engravings.

I think this is a fake, probably made in the 1950's in the United States. The eyepieces seem to be coated, so they were definitely not made before the war.

Hermann
 
Hermann said:
The binoculars were definitely not made by Zeiss or any other German manufacturer. Zeiss didn't make porros with that type of body, and I don't know of any traditional German manufacturer that used it. That body type is often referred to as the Bausch & Lomb type over here. The engravings are also not genuine, I've never seen any Zeiss binocular with such engravings.

I think this is a fake, probably made in the 1950's in the United States. The eyepieces seem to be coated, so they were definitely not made before the war.

Hermann
Click to expand...

Hermann,

I concur. The general shape and the eye cups are rather like a Mark 28, Model O, 7x50 made by Bausch & Lomb. They were coated even in 1943.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
There seems to be some other writing under the 7x50 on the right prism cover. I can't make out what it says but it looks like it could be "CAPTAIN".
 
I agree with Hermann and Arthur. As soon as I saw the pictures, my immediate reaction was 'American pattern' body. The clincher is the alleged 'Carl Zeiss' name, which should be engraved as a logo depicting a side view outline of an achromatic doublet lens having Carl Zeiss in the upper lens element and Jena in the lower one; yours doesn't have this. The mystery of the 1947 customs manifest remains... Was this falsified too?
 
James Bean said:
I agree with Hermann and Arthur. As soon as I saw the pictures, my immediate reaction was 'American pattern' body. The clincher is the alleged 'Carl Zeiss' name, which should be engraved as a logo depicting a side view outline of an achromatic doublet lens having Carl Zeiss in the upper lens element and Jena in the lower one; yours doesn't have this. The mystery of the 1947 customs manifest remains... Was this falsified too?
Click to expand...

That I can't say, it looks like a government form. I have it scanned somewhere. I'll post a shot of that later.

Again, thanks for all of the replies.
 
The forum members' posts seem right-on. I own a number of WWII-era American binoculars, as I'm sure some of them do as well, and I'd like to add that the binocular might be an army M17 binocular, as the eye cups have a deep and smoothly rounded profile (not the later M17A1, which has more shallow and grooved eye cups). The M17 body (Westinghouse made) and Bausch & Lomb Navy Mark 28 were otherwise very similar. Just a possibility ...
 
Here is a scanned copy of the manifest.

Perhaps he paid too much in duties for something fake :D

Is there anything else I can look for to narrow it down? I wonder why someone would go thru the bother to engrave CZ Jena ontop....especially if they were military issued????? Guess stranger things have happened. I like the binoculars, so that's not an issue, and I don't think I overpaid ($152 plus shipping) --- it would just be nice to know what they really are.
 

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SteveF said:
The forum members' posts seem right-on. I own a number of WWII-era American binoculars, as I'm sure some of them do as well, and I'd like to add that the binocular might be an army M17 binocular, as the eye cups have a deep and smoothly rounded profile (not the later M17A1, which has more shallow and grooved eye cups). The M17 body (Westinghouse made) and Bausch & Lomb Navy Mark 28 were otherwise very similar. Just a possibility ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. Are there any websites with better pictures of these other options?
 
I wish I could post photos, but I'm blocked from where I'm accessing. Sorry.

I think you can find some photos through Google's Images section.
 
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If the story about a Captain in the Merchant Marine using them for nearly 30 years is true then, whatever they are, they must be pretty good. It would be interesting to find out their origin.

Bob
 
Hello AcaCandy,

Let me put on my green makeup and my Vulcan ears. We have a manifest entry for a binocular with a serial number. The entry does not describe the binocular beyond a value of $10, a tad low for a 7x50, in 1947. and a serial number. You have a binocular with faked or altered prism covers, with the same number. You have an American style binocular, which probably should not have had duty imposted. It is not impossible that the engraving was made to match the manifest, some time after 1947, in the States.
There are all sorts of of other scenarios, which would make sense.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
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